Chromatic

iTrader: (4)

I have a few questions (I've done a great deal of reading of this topic on here), as I and a few others are in the same boat as I am in.

We need to replace our clutches in the 350's.. Mine is a 2008 350Z with 35k *easy/non ragged* miles.

I won't go into the problems.. a new clutch is going in because at the minimum the slave cylinder is causing the issues and due to the placement of the CSC I think it would be silly not to replace it all with 35k miles on it (not a lot, but enough to go ahead and put a new clutch in , if it's all apart anyway).

I won't be doing the work.

1) When getting the clutch replaced, I am going to definitely get the Slave cylinder replaced. From all I've read OEM slave cylinders have never been "fixed" where they don't fail randomly. Is this true?

If it is,.. Is going with the JWT Heavy Duty Slave cylinder the way to go (and tell the mechanics I'm ok with them not guaranteeing the work due to being aftermarket? -- in other words, does this $150 (or so) HD Slave cylinder fix the problem for good , in so much as the Slave going bad? Or has Nissan actually re-engineered the CSC to not fail now?

2) Nissan wants Over 3 grand for a full clutch job (The whole job, labor, and flywheel (which is over a grand by itself )

I can't afford that kind of cost. My budget is around 2 Grand for the whole job.

So what would you recommend for someone who does NOT need anything more than OEM (I have another 30-50 horsepower added through aftermarket add-ons and tune, etc.. But nothing the stock clutch can't handle)

So would some mixture of OEM and aftermarket with a private mechanic (non dealer) get me in the Budget of 2 Grand or less?

3) With above,.. I ask about the mixture of OEM and Aftermarket because I am concerned with everyone saying a lightweight flywheel is absolutely horrendously loud. I'm fine with the factory noise with the clutch released at idle -- First thing I noticed on the car,.. but I don't want it much louder than that.

If a light weight flywheel is just a TAD louder.. then I could definitely go with it. If it really makes a BIG audible difference over factory,.. then I'll need some advice on what mixture of OEM + Aftermarket parts to go with to combine with Labor costs of a regular mechanic to reach my goal, yet not increase the noise over stock (If stock flywheel is the only way to go to keep it reasonably quiet).

4) Can the Stock flywheel be resurfaced? I've read it can.. My clutch doesn't slip now.. I can be at 20-30 mph in 6th.. floor it and zero slippage. It slips at 5-6k+ RPM when quick shifting gears for a split second about 100rpm. Ane the pedal is now not popping all the way back up. It's not falling to floor.. but the inch or so of free 'play' / 'slack' in the pedal that isn't engaging or disengaging the clutch itself now doesn't pop out fully. I can drive it fine this way.. It's something that has just started in the last month or so, and I attribute it to the way the clutch has been doing the above since I purchased the car last year.

Which leads me to believe the CSC is bad/going bad.. and is causing all the problems. Further, with the mileage and the fact it doesn't slip at all when flooring it in 6th gear at super low speeds -- That the clutch isn't used up and flywheel isn't thrashed.

So if the flywheel can be resurfaced, I would think mine may be a good candidate?

So lastly,.. Any advice on what to ask shops/mechanics to see if they can resurface this particular dual mass flywheel? I know some can, some can't --

And I'd like to phrase the question properly so they understand what kind of flywheel they would be working with (if it matters) on resurfacing. Which I imagine would only be a few hundred dollars to resurface and gives me the OEM flywheel sound without having to buy a $1000-$1500 new OEM flywheel.

Sorry so long. I appreciate any and all answers and tips advice on this. This is something I will be getting together and done in the next 30 days or so.

Very much appreciated..

Respectfully,

savedbygrace

iTrader: (4)

I'm not the right guy to be replying here...but I'll add my two cents for whatever it might be worth.

Flywheels....I'd stay stock...a lighter flywheel also drops the revs faster between shifts, so if you're good with that then sure...but lightweight flywheels are all louder than stock and of all the posts I've read, the majority are annoyed with the sound, but of course some are not. Personally...I could go either way but prefer it to be totally quiet, which mine is except for a clutch release bearing that is JUSSSSTTT starting to speak up.

Labor wise...I'd bet you can find a mechanic for about $500 if they want to work on the side..maybe a guy from a dealership or he/she may know someone...insurance agents often have a stable of contacts to refer people to...may want to try calling some insurance agents and ask them if they know of a good affordable mechanic for a Z,...I've actually found a great mechanic this way.

Hope this helps,

Saved

Chromatic

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for the reply.

This is what I've come up with.

Southbend (maybe.. not sure on brand.. ) -- Stage 2 Clutch/pressure plate. - $400

OEM New dual Mass flywheel - $900

HD Zspeed CSC - $330

HD Master cylinder (Wilwood) - $200

Shipping

Plus Labor to install it all.

So anywhere from $2400-$2900 ? The labor has been impossible to get a quote from any mechanic .. it's a leave it with me and you'll know when you pick it up. (I'm on a budget, even though I've decided to do every component "right" if you will..)

Few questions:

1) I'm only going that stage 2 clutch because OEM clutch is $200 more.. -- Is that clutch good? As good or better than OEM with now "down sides" ?

If not, what would you recommend for clutch.

2) I'm going to get both csc and master done just to have it all replaced and with the HD versions.

Are the two versions "Zspeed CSC" and Wilwood Master the best two of these?

3) Oh... Should I fork out even more money on a stainless steel line? If so, which one? Or more than one?

I've found a place that works on Z's specially.. but haven't gotten any quotes whatsoever yet from them.. so I'm not super hopeful the Z shop will be reasonable on labor costs.. maybe..

Thanks for replying/any answers!

Wietse350Z

Check the link, for 1500 you will have a complete kit for replacing the clutch, and from all what i've read about it a very good kit.
It's a stage 2 daily driver kit, which will be for comfort as well. (this will be my choice i think, or the JWT kit.....not sure yet)

http://www.zspeedperformance.com/Sou...ily-2-Pack.htm

This kit is put together by people who are in to this kinda stuff so would rather stick to that then buy parts independently (some won't work/fit and price will be higher)

So then you still need to find somebody to do the job for 500.
If that's not possible guess you will have to save some more to pay the mechanic.

To answer some more questions, the OEM CSC is not a ridged component made to last.
There are many out there who replaced it for OEM when replacing the clutch and had to go in again to replace the OEM CSC for a upgraded version.
Also there are people who strongly recommend to replace the master cylinder for the Wilwood for the same reason.

timeltel

Regards, Chromatic: My '08 was exhibiting two concerns. When engine braking there was a vibration felt in the shift lever at 4,100 and again at 2,900 rpm. It had also begun to hang up between 5th/6th gears. The sticky shifter was due to wear to the shifter alignment plate, a ten minute fix. In for routine (still under warranty) service it seemed a good time to bring these concerns to Nissan. The "tech" determined the synchros were at fault and they replaced the transmission, on their dime, a year ago at 47k miles. Replaced CSC & master while tranny out, work performed on a Tuesday, it was a four hour job, the master/CSC install another 1 1/2 hours.

Put the car through it's paces, still had the vibration. Googled "dual mass flywheel problems" & found numerous references to the same conditions, many on this forum. Ordered the same flywheel/clutch disk from the Zspeed kit Wietse350Z linked to. Fast shipping, rescheduled at Nissan service for the following Monday. Transmission remains quiet. No vibrations and a nice improvement in throttle response.

The DMF will eventually wear at the nylon bushing that orients the primary mass to the secondary (pressure plate) mass. It will then run out and introduce an imbalance, eventually damaging input shaft bearings, pilot bearing, engine rear seals, the starter and quite conceivably, crankshaft mains. For noise and vibration damping qualities the DMF is designed for a limited amount of sprung rotational play. Resurfacing a DMF requires specialized equipment. I'd be surprised if at your Z's mileage it needs it but if you decide to go this way be sure to ask pointed questions. Don't let a Bubba talk you into it.

For your reference, my total for parts/Nissan Service labor was $2.300. The master/slave install was another 1 1/2 hour labor. Having it all done while the transmission was first out would have saved me the $450 labor costs for the second clutch/pressure plate pull but I expect to enjoy my first owner Z for a long time & consider the preventive maintenance worth it.

If it hasn't been done yet, at 37k miles you might consider replacing tranny/differential lube while the Z is on the lift. Redline, Motul and OEM all have there proponents. If you're hearing the notorious "cement mixer" noise, have the input shaft checked for play/roughness when spun. I engaged Nissan Customer Service at the highest regional levels. Not a surprise, "They" said it is a tough transmission, even with the noisy input shaft it'll run for a long time. If yours is quiet, the forged steel solid flywheel will not dramatically increase any noises. I believe this is most frequently observed with lightweight units with aluminum components.

Part opinion, part experience. Do some research on DMF's & good luck with your Z.

Peace.

Chromatic

iTrader: (4)

Thank you for your replies.

My shifting before the pedal recently started not returning fully has been smooth.. no vibrations at speed etc.

It has only had what I used to call "Throw out bearing noise" when you were in neutral and let the clutch out. In gear it never shimmied, or made any noise whatsoever even at 1500 rpm cruising down the road under load.

I REALLY would love to get this done for about $2,000 .. and I have researched threads, youtube videos, and talked with the owner of some of these performance shops online that sell the HD slaves/csc's .. the Southbend single mass flywheel and so on.

The big question in response to what you two have written is why am I not using the much cheaper Southbend flywheel?

Well.. I cannot stand any rattles/noises on the car.

I accept that in neutral there will be some noise stock.. that's fine.. every 350 has that.. but every single person who has a flywheel that is not the OEM dual mass says (most love it) that there is some noise at very low RPMS, especially under load.

Most say under 2k RPM (some say 2500) you will have some minor noise with even the southbend flywheel. But it's something they say can be fixed by turning on the radio.

My driving style is quite early shifts when just Daily Driving and not "playing" if you will.

So I'm most often in this range of 1500-2500 rpm 90% of the time when just cruising around town (Sub 60mph areas)..

So I would be in that noise (Even if not super loud) all the time.

Bottom line is even the guy who runs Zspeed said there can be some noise under load below 2500RPM.. So I have to respect that and make the right choice.

Which is "regrettably" a new OEM Dual mass flywheel.

Going with the OEM Flywheel will eliminate that "noise" factor because it will be the same setup that's in the car now.. so it will be only as loud as it currently is.. which I can obviously live with.

As far as mixing parts.

Well.. Any standard OEM replacement (ie: Street duty low stage) Performance clutch is going to bolt in just like the OEM clutch would.

The OEM flywheel , .. well will fit just like it does now.

And that leaves the HD Slave and HD Master.

Those both will go into place of the OEM. These aren't precise copies but are designed to fit with OEM hoses.

Which brings up a question (Do I need to spend even more money on better hoses? If so which ones, and why?)


I've listened to your replies.. and very much appreciate them! I am not going against anything you recommend, just stating why I've come to the part "mix" I have.. it's mostly on the reccomendation from Zspeed when I mention my budget, and goal.

Originally he recommended an OEM clutch.. but said I could save a little money if I went with the Street/Southbend Stage 2 (Saves me $200) and I can't see how it would be any "Worse" than an OEM clutch?

Here's the email of parts recommended:

OEM Flywheel $867
OEM Clutch $600

(Later he added: "You can go into a more performance rated clutch and would save you a little
The south bend stage 2 daily drives great and is $400 VS $600 for the stock clutch.")

ZSpeed HD Slave Cylinder $299
ZSpeed Wilwood Master Cylinder Kit $199


Thanks for reading, and trying to give some knowledge/help!