ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

LATENCY (A.K.A. "DEAD TIME") FOR VARIOUS FUEL INJECTORS


Injector Latencies / Dead Times are listed below in micro-seconds. The HKS F-CON uses micro-seconds. I have been informed that the Haltech uses milli-seconds. To convert from micro-seconds to milli-seconds, divide the Latency / Dead Time by 1,000 (i.e., put a decimal just before the 3rd digit in from the right).

14V latencies / Dead Times are listed in bold numbers.


HKS - Per HKS specifications (impedance not confirmed for all HKS injectors)

___ | _ Flow_ | _ Flow_ | _Imp. _|
P/N | (cc/min) | (lb/hr) | (ohms) | 8V | 10V | 12V | 14V | 16V | 18V
402-RN008 | 555 | 53 | 2 | 1795 | 1179 | 830 | 584 | 403 | 193
402-RN009 | 740 | 70 | 2 | 1641 | 973 | 633 | 463 | 359 | 227
402-RN010 | 600 | 57 | 2 | 1508 | 853 | 598 | 402 | 227 | 135
402-RN011 | 480 | 46 | 2 | 1972 | 1166 | 776 | 483 | 274 | 100
402-RZ001 | 550 | 52 | 2 | 2364 | 1636 | 1273 | 909 | 545 | 545
402-RZ002 | 680 | 65 | 2 | 2444 | 1704 | 1407 | 1111 | 815 | 815
402-RA002 | 1000 | 95 | 2 | 2400 | 1800 | 1400 | 1100 | 1000 | 800



RC ENGINEERING - I'm sssuming per RC specifications, but I have not confirmed this

_ Flow_ | _ Flow_ | _Imp. _|
(cc/min) | (lb/hr) | (ohms) | 10V | 11V | 12V | 13V | 14V | 15V
240 | 23 | 16 | 1310 | 1100 | 970 | 770 | 620 | 460
270 | 26 | 16 | 890 | 760 | 610 | 490 | 320 | 230
310 | 30 | 16 | 1140 | 890 | 720 | 550 | 430 | 330
370 | 35 | 16 | 850 | 640 | 470 | 350 | 210 | 120
440 | 42 | 13 | 1270 | 1080 | 910 | 740 | 630 | 530
440 | 42 | 16 | 760 | 560 | 420 | 290 | 140 | 30
550 | 52 | 3 | 920 | 810 | 680 | 590 | 510 | 400
550 | 52 | 13 | 1070 | 880 | 780 | 670 | 550 | 460
650 | 62 | 12 | 1080 | 860 | 690 | 540 | 410 | 310
720 | 69 | 3 | 1070 | 1480 | 1310 | 1160 | 1060 | 940
750 | 71 | 3 | 880 | 660 | 480 | 320 | 180 | 50
750 | 71 | 12 | 1360 | 1120 | 920 | 760 | 630 | 50
900 | 86 | 3 | 1700 | 1480 | 1310 | 1160 | 1060 | 940
1000 | 95 | 3 | 1170 | 950 | 800 | 670 | 560 | 460
1200 | 114 | 3 | 2550 | 2280 | 2000 | 1790 | 1620 | 1460
1600 | 152 | 3 | 1800 | 1460 | 1230 | 1050 | 920 | 810



Denso

_ Flow_ | _ Flow_ | _Imp. _|
(cc/min) | (lb/hr) | (ohms) | 10V | 11V | 12V | 13V | 14V | 15V
550 | 52 | 2 | 1240| 1040 | 870 | 750 | 640 | 550
660 | 63 | 2 | 1150 | 990 | 860 | 740 | 640 | 550
720 | 69 | 2 | 1350 | 1140 | 990 | 860 | 750 | 670


Deatschwerks

_ Flow_ | _ Flow_ | _Imp. _|
(cc/min) | (lb/hr) | (ohms) | 6V | 7V | 8V | 9V | 10V | 11V | 12V | 13V | 14V | 15V | 16V | 17V
600 | 57 | ? | ? | 3300 | 2600 | 2200 | 2000 | 1800 | 1600 | 1500 | 1300 | 1200 | 1200 | 1100
800 | 47 | ? | 2890 | 2330 | 1960 | 1730 | 1550 | 1410 | 1320 | 1190 | 1110 | 1040 | 990 | 940


PTE

_ Flow_ | _ Flow_ | _Imp. _|
(cc/min) | (lb/hr) | (ohms) | 8.7V | 10.4V | 12.2V | 13.9V | 15.6V | 17.4V | 19.1V | 20.9V
1200 | 114 | ? | 1630 | 1000 | 800 | 800 | 750 | 700 | 600 | 530
1600| 152 | ? | 870 | 1000 | 900 | 840 | 800 | 800 | 800 | 700


All of my spaces are being ingored by the text editor they use on this site, so I cannot line them up properly (without alot of trial and error), but the | symbols should help identify the correct column. The bold digits for the 14V latencies / dead times also should help.

Note: I have completely replaced this first post with the information I was looking for to make it easier for others to find it when searching.

I EXTEND A BIG THANK YOU BOTH TO JOHN AT EVERYONE FOR THERE DATA CONTRIBUTIONS!!!

Japtrix

Terry you could have just called i would have told you... but since others don't see the need to help people out, i will help out.
HKS says

8V - 2400
10V - 1800
12V - 1400
14V - 1100
16V - 1000
18V - 800

but theres more adjustment for better response. we'll go over it when we retune. we can explain it.

gmx

this is what I have

HKS 1000CC

Flow LB/Hr 95

Ohm 2



10v 1.31

11v 1.14

12v 1.04

13v 0.97

14v 0.89

15V 0.79


^_^

gmx

Terry add these to your list it may help lots of people in the future ^_^

RC injectors dead time

Jay'Z

iTrader: (118)

He has a shop?

gmx

Terry I found only three

Denso injectors

+++| Flow | Ohm | 10V | 11V | 12V | 13V | 14V | 15V |
(550) | 52 | 2 | 1.24 | 1.04 | 0.87 | 0.75 | 0.64 | 0.55 |

(660) | 63 | 2 | 1.15 | 0.99 | 0.86 | 0.74 | 0.64 | 0.55 |

(720) | 69 | 2 | 1.35 | 1.14 | 0.99 | 0.86 | 0.75 | 0.67 |

MR RIZK

iTrader: (7)

Would anyone have the details for the PE injectors? I have the PE510's but these are rebadged Denso's I think. The above chart shows the 550's but no 510's. Unless the value is based on a different pressure.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Thanks for collecting this data ttg35fort. I don't understand why the latencies are so high for the HKS low impedance injectors. I thought the low impedance injectors had the better response time. Can someone provide the source for that data (HKS via scanned sheet or over phone w/ tech support)? Since injector dead time is added to every pulse, it doesn't really matter what the dead times are so long as they are proportionate. That is, the difference between 14V and 12V is the important factor, not the actual value since you will dial in the actual IPW during tuning. Although fuel compensations will be off if you actually try to calculate what those compensations should be if dead times are off. Trial and error works fine there too I suppose. Discrepancies bug me though and I would like to know why there are two different scales being used (the difference you noted in earlier posts).

One link: http://injector-rehab.com/kbse/lag.htm

Who to believe? And further, are all the dead times rated for 3 bar operation? If you change the pressure, it will be off. Hmmm...

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Those numbers were tested by whom? If someone actually measured the latency, that's great but otherwise I'd have to trust HKS specs. Injector latency should not be affected by rpm. Here is a good read: http://www.injectordynamics.com/dyna...erization.html This article does a reasonable job explaining why it's good to have accurate latency times for your injectors instead of just "tuning around" whatever you find on the 'net. Although, I'll admit, most people will never notice the difference...

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

bumping an old thread for possible additional info for PTE injectors dead times?

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

ya already checked them out. about ~1500$ a set. but that vid of them idling that stock car with the 2000c injectors was pretty impressive.

I know Hal is goin to try out some 2000cc in his race car not the ID but Siemens, but prolly all the same thing

There are alot of options for generic 14mm o-ring injectors at the 1000cc++ range as they are the same ones used by mustangs, vettes, etc. just finding ones that are characterized/trustworthy might be challenging
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injec...ODS.asp#pinkto

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

Ok, called PTE and finally found someone that tunes with these injectors and had them on his laptop
Here's the 1200's
8.7V 1.63
10.4V 1.0
12.2V .80
13.9V .80
15.6V .75
17.4V .70
19.1V .60
20.9V .53

and the 1600s
8.7V 1.63
10.4V 1.0
12.2V .90
13.9V .84
15.6V .80
17.4V .80
19.1V .80
20.9V .70

SmallTuner

iTrader: (2)

RC injectors allso, i have changed and iv got the final numbers.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

I just measured the HKS injector resistance directly and it is indeed 2 ohms. If you order the aquamist HFS-6, you must ask for a control unit specifically for peak and hold injectors OR you must bypass the correct resistors on the circuit board as it is designed for noisy high impedence injectors.

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

Hi Raj,

I noticed your comment about "noisy" high impedance injectors. I'm not sure what the significance is...

Since you are talking electronics, perhaps you are referring to thermal noise. The thermal noise levels generated by even high impedance injectors still should be extremely, extremely low and should have no adverse effects on any electronic systems in modern vehicles, which are designed to withstand the electromagnetic interference (EMI) generated by the ignition system and other noise sources, which are far more significant contributors of EMI.

Am I missing something here? Did you mean something else when referring to high impedence injectors as being "noisy?"

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Sorry didn't mean to imply this bit of electrical noise in high impedence injectors was a problem per se.

Apparently high impedence injectors drop to ground whereas low impedance (peak and hold) maintain voltage in the coil during the "hold" period just below battery voltage. The more significant current fluctuations in high impedence injectors leads to a greater propensity for electrical noise. This is only relevant from the perspective of a controller that is trying to accurately detect injector duty cycle from a signal without "knowing" what type of injector is being used. Threshold voltages for detection of a pulse must be different for the different injectors types for reliable operation. The aquamist controller comes packaged to deal with the more common high impedence injectors. You may experience "flaky" detection with peak and hold injectors unless you make an adjustment to the threshold voltage for detection of peak and hold injectors in the aquamist controller. When I asked why not design it for peak and hold injectors by default (which has a narrow voltage differential but should still work for high impedence injectors), I was told that the electrical noise with high impedence injectors could cause trouble with a controller designed to detect a very subtle difference in voltage (as needed for peak and hold injectors). Hope that makes some sense. Probably completely irrelevant to anyone but an electrical engineer designing a controller!

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

DW will give u that info if you call, but make sure to repost here...

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

If you have a wideband, you can get it going... Injector dead times are not required. You can use any value and still get it to run. If fact, you can modify the dead times themselves to get the thing to at least run.

binder

iTrader: (8)

ya, it's running but like crap and the injectors sound like they are going to explode. I figured pulsewidth and dead time would maybe change that.

If i set the k value to idle ok it will not drive, so i have to adjust things and it's a back and forth battle. I assumed the funky way it isn't tuning right is partially based on the fact that the OEM injector latency is probably quite a bit different than what the dw 800's are.

also, since 800's are twice (and then some) larger than the oem setup, shouldn't my K value be in the ballpark of half of what the oem k value is? I would assume it should be at least a great deal lower than the stock K value. stock is 27500 and change and i'm at 22000 right now and it's mildly running with a lot of adjustments to the fuel comp table. If i go any lower with the K value then it idles so lean that it won't even stay running. Why is it doing that to me when others running 600's have a k value of like 16000 and it's stoich at idle?

I know i'm very inexperienced with osiris and a lot is due to that but i would assume i would at least be in the ballpark of what others are.

binder

iTrader: (8)

from mike:

DW 800cc injector latency

6v to 17v in 1v increments


2.89 6v
2.33 7v
1.96 8v
1.73 9v
1.55 10v
1.41 11v
1.32 12v
1.19 13v
1.11 14v
1.04 15v
0.99 16v
0.94 17v