Independent Crawford Plenum Review & Dyno
02-07-2004, 02:09 PM
#1
Independent Crawford Plenum Review & Dyno
VandyZ sent me his plenum. As promised, here is the independent review.
Installation
ZxSaint who will be dynoing another plenum and, has to take off his strut brace in the near future, agreed to do the dyno testing on his Z. Jeff and Jason with Performance agreed to ship the plenum back. And, Jeff negotiated 3 free dyno runs of the plenum with the dyno shop. Thanks to ZxSaint, Jeff, Jason and our trusted dyno shop, we have an independent dyno of the Crawford plenum.
After three base lines were done, the Saint and I took off the stock plenum and installed the Crawford per supplied instructions. All work was done in the open with about 15-20 spectators. The entire removal and installation took about 45 minutes to an hour. After installation, the Z was driven around to give the ECU the benefit of running with the Crawford plenum.
The Bottom Line
Three dyno runs were done with the plenum. The first run had no gain, the best run had 4 hp peak gain. Gains at redline, if any, will be seen on the dyno since I never bothered to note difference at redline. But, the before and after differences seemed minimal across the band.
Closing Comments
Saint can post his driving impressions. He said he noticed a difference and those differences are probably what everyone who has installed the plenum but, never bothered to dyno, consider to be the spectacular gains. Butt dyno notwithstanding, performance under dyno was entirely underwhelming.
The woo is not noticable if you have highflow cats, exhaust and intake. And, the Squirrelliness, well Saint can give his opinion on what that is all about.
Like the first dyno done by Steve over at Powertrain dynamics, there really wasn't significantly noticable gains with the Crawford plenum. This is not a 9 hp peak gain mod. Gains are somewhere between 0 and 4 hp. And, in my opinion, you would be better off with a $100 JWT PopCharger or a $210 UR Crankshaft pully which is independent dyno proven for 6.5 hp and 6-8 hp gains respectively.
The plenum is with Jason at Performance who will be shipping the unit back to Vandy c/o Strictly Z. Saint is still at the dyno shop and will post the dyno shortly.
Thanks again to Saint for volunteering his car, Jeff for negotiating the free dynos and for the shipping, Jason for taking care of the return and for my delivering my new ashtray and to our dyno shop for the free runs. So. Cal people, please note the shop name and their telephone number on the soon to be posted dyno.
Installation
ZxSaint who will be dynoing another plenum and, has to take off his strut brace in the near future, agreed to do the dyno testing on his Z. Jeff and Jason with Performance agreed to ship the plenum back. And, Jeff negotiated 3 free dyno runs of the plenum with the dyno shop. Thanks to ZxSaint, Jeff, Jason and our trusted dyno shop, we have an independent dyno of the Crawford plenum.
After three base lines were done, the Saint and I took off the stock plenum and installed the Crawford per supplied instructions. All work was done in the open with about 15-20 spectators. The entire removal and installation took about 45 minutes to an hour. After installation, the Z was driven around to give the ECU the benefit of running with the Crawford plenum.
The Bottom Line
Three dyno runs were done with the plenum. The first run had no gain, the best run had 4 hp peak gain. Gains at redline, if any, will be seen on the dyno since I never bothered to note difference at redline. But, the before and after differences seemed minimal across the band.
Closing Comments
Saint can post his driving impressions. He said he noticed a difference and those differences are probably what everyone who has installed the plenum but, never bothered to dyno, consider to be the spectacular gains. Butt dyno notwithstanding, performance under dyno was entirely underwhelming.
The woo is not noticable if you have highflow cats, exhaust and intake. And, the Squirrelliness, well Saint can give his opinion on what that is all about.
Like the first dyno done by Steve over at Powertrain dynamics, there really wasn't significantly noticable gains with the Crawford plenum. This is not a 9 hp peak gain mod. Gains are somewhere between 0 and 4 hp. And, in my opinion, you would be better off with a $100 JWT PopCharger or a $210 UR Crankshaft pully which is independent dyno proven for 6.5 hp and 6-8 hp gains respectively.
The plenum is with Jason at Performance who will be shipping the unit back to Vandy c/o Strictly Z. Saint is still at the dyno shop and will post the dyno shortly.
Thanks again to Saint for volunteering his car, Jeff for negotiating the free dynos and for the shipping, Jason for taking care of the return and for my delivering my new ashtray and to our dyno shop for the free runs. So. Cal people, please note the shop name and their telephone number on the soon to be posted dyno.
02-07-2004, 02:54 PM
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Re: Independent Crawford Plenum Review & Dyno
Originally posted by hfm
VandyZ sent me his plenum. As promised, here is the independent review.
Installation
ZxSaint who will be dynoing another plenum and, has to take off his strut brace in the near future, agreed to do the dyno testing on his Z. Jeff and Jason with Performance agreed to ship the plenum back. And, Jeff negotiated 3 free dyno runs of the plenum with the dyno shop. Thanks to ZxSaint, Jeff, Jason and our trusted dyno shop, we have an independent dyno of the Crawford plenum.
After three base lines were done, the Saint and I took off the stock plenum and installed the Crawford per supplied instructions. All work was done in the open with about 15-20 spectators. The entire removal and installation took about 45 minutes to an hour. After installation, the Z was driven around to give the ECU the benefit of running with the Crawford plenum.
The Bottom Line
Three dyno runs were done with the plenum. The first run had no gain, the best run had 4 hp peak gain. Gains at redline, if any, will be seen on the dyno since I never bothered to note difference at redline. But, the before and after differences seemed minimal across the band.
Closing Comments
Saint can post his driving impressions. He said he noticed a difference and those differences are probably what everyone who has installed the plenum but, never bothered to dyno, consider to be the spectacular gains. Butt dyno notwithstanding, performance under dyno was entirely underwhelming.
The woo is not noticable if you have highflow cats, exhaust and intake. And, the Squirrelliness, well Saint can give his opinion on what that is all about.
Like the first dyno done by Steve over at Powertrain dynamics, there really wasn't significantly noticable gains with the Crawford plenum. This is not a 9 hp peak gain mod. Gains are somewhere between 0 and 4 hp. And, in my opinion, you would be better off with a $100 JWT PopCharger or a $210 UR Crankshaft pully which is independent dyno proven for 6.5 hp and 6-8 hp gains respectively.
The plenum is with Jason at Performance who will be shipping the unit back to Vandy c/o Strictly Z. Saint is still at the dyno shop and will post the dyno shortly.
Thanks again to Saint for volunteering his car, Jeff for negotiating the free dynos and for the shipping, Jason for taking care of the return and for my delivering my new ashtray and to our dyno shop for the free runs. So. Cal people, please note the shop name and their telephone number on the soon to be posted dyno.
VandyZ sent me his plenum. As promised, here is the independent review.
Installation
ZxSaint who will be dynoing another plenum and, has to take off his strut brace in the near future, agreed to do the dyno testing on his Z. Jeff and Jason with Performance agreed to ship the plenum back. And, Jeff negotiated 3 free dyno runs of the plenum with the dyno shop. Thanks to ZxSaint, Jeff, Jason and our trusted dyno shop, we have an independent dyno of the Crawford plenum.
After three base lines were done, the Saint and I took off the stock plenum and installed the Crawford per supplied instructions. All work was done in the open with about 15-20 spectators. The entire removal and installation took about 45 minutes to an hour. After installation, the Z was driven around to give the ECU the benefit of running with the Crawford plenum.
The Bottom Line
Three dyno runs were done with the plenum. The first run had no gain, the best run had 4 hp peak gain. Gains at redline, if any, will be seen on the dyno since I never bothered to note difference at redline. But, the before and after differences seemed minimal across the band.
Closing Comments
Saint can post his driving impressions. He said he noticed a difference and those differences are probably what everyone who has installed the plenum but, never bothered to dyno, consider to be the spectacular gains. Butt dyno notwithstanding, performance under dyno was entirely underwhelming.
The woo is not noticable if you have highflow cats, exhaust and intake. And, the Squirrelliness, well Saint can give his opinion on what that is all about.
Like the first dyno done by Steve over at Powertrain dynamics, there really wasn't significantly noticable gains with the Crawford plenum. This is not a 9 hp peak gain mod. Gains are somewhere between 0 and 4 hp. And, in my opinion, you would be better off with a $100 JWT PopCharger or a $210 UR Crankshaft pully which is independent dyno proven for 6.5 hp and 6-8 hp gains respectively.
The plenum is with Jason at Performance who will be shipping the unit back to Vandy c/o Strictly Z. Saint is still at the dyno shop and will post the dyno shortly.
Thanks again to Saint for volunteering his car, Jeff for negotiating the free dynos and for the shipping, Jason for taking care of the return and for my delivering my new ashtray and to our dyno shop for the free runs. So. Cal people, please note the shop name and their telephone number on the soon to be posted dyno.
02-07-2004, 02:55 PM
#6
A few days late and $20 dollars short. . .
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=59594
A few things caught my eye.
1. I sent dyno instructions, 4 runs is not enough to get the oil temps up and the car running optimally. If you want to argue with me, go ahead. I am sure myself and Doug have more experience with dynoing this car than anyone here.
2. 4 hp on last run (on a very short session) sounds good to me. You failed to mention ZXSaint has other mods including test pipes / RT Cats which cause severe leanness. Did you by chance take a/f ratio?
3. You dont comment on the gains up top, which is where the plenum makes a difference. Can you post the plots?
WE WILL STILL CLAIM 7-9 PEAK POWER AND 15-20 REDLINE POWER ON A STOCK CAR. And just to reassure everyone go and look at the top ten N/A dyno list and see how many Crawford powered cars are on it.
Top 10 N/A
Good to see you back on the board. I am sure Phoenix will give you a proper "Welcome back" later.
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=59594
A few things caught my eye.
1. I sent dyno instructions, 4 runs is not enough to get the oil temps up and the car running optimally. If you want to argue with me, go ahead. I am sure myself and Doug have more experience with dynoing this car than anyone here.
2. 4 hp on last run (on a very short session) sounds good to me. You failed to mention ZXSaint has other mods including test pipes / RT Cats which cause severe leanness. Did you by chance take a/f ratio?
3. You dont comment on the gains up top, which is where the plenum makes a difference. Can you post the plots?
WE WILL STILL CLAIM 7-9 PEAK POWER AND 15-20 REDLINE POWER ON A STOCK CAR. And just to reassure everyone go and look at the top ten N/A dyno list and see how many Crawford powered cars are on it.
Top 10 N/A Good to see you back on the board. I am sure Phoenix will give you a proper "Welcome back" later.
Last edited by VandyZ; 02-07-2004 at 03:11 PM.
02-07-2004, 03:04 PM
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I'm with VandyZ, my experience and the experience of others just don't agree out the results described above. Also, the independent results from Danny, see attached thread, say hfm and the crew from Performance Nissan is wrong.
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....4&pagenumber=1
Lou
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....4&pagenumber=1
Lou
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02-07-2004, 03:07 PM
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True, we need to see the dyno charts to know--especially at the top RPMs--to see what kind of gains zxsaint got.
Another point--he does not have test pipes. He has free flow cats, a Borla exhaust and a CAI.
Finally--it's a good point that you make about additional mods. In a stock Z there might be the gains that you mention. Additional mods can alter the gains that you'd normally see on a stock setup.
Another point--he does not have test pipes. He has free flow cats, a Borla exhaust and a CAI.
Finally--it's a good point that you make about additional mods. In a stock Z there might be the gains that you mention. Additional mods can alter the gains that you'd normally see on a stock setup.
02-07-2004, 03:08 PM
#9
One last thing. Now that you have said that it might not be a good mod, I wonder how all those people waiting for LSD's plenum feel now. You think there would be anyone else making these if it did not make power. What about that spacer plate from Japan? I tell you one thing, if LSD’s does make power (probably less cause of design) are you going to not believe them either? They have the same offering except compromising some performance for stock fitment and looks! (The whole compromise statement is my opinion and I do not mean it in a bad way)
02-07-2004, 03:10 PM
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quote: Mike Wazowski
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by teh215
Somehow I suspected this would be the response.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ditto
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by teh215
Somehow I suspected this would be the response.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ditto
anyways, 4whp is a nice start, and if i remember right zxsaint has high-flow cats very similar to cawfords, borla, and UR pullies.
02-07-2004, 03:13 PM
#11
I just subscribed to watch the fireworks... :-)
While at it, the mention of toher mods confuses me. Is the idea here that the plenum produces ONLY if you have NO OTHER MODS?? Thats kind of... weird. Most people who go for a plenum will most likely have exhaust, and many other mods. A plenum is not likely to be the "one and only mod" anybody does...
Just wondering.
While at it, the mention of toher mods confuses me. Is the idea here that the plenum produces ONLY if you have NO OTHER MODS?? Thats kind of... weird. Most people who go for a plenum will most likely have exhaust, and many other mods. A plenum is not likely to be the "one and only mod" anybody does...
Just wondering.
02-07-2004, 03:16 PM
#13
Originally posted by slaponte
I just subscribed to watch the fireworks... :-)
While at it, the mention of toher mods confuses me. Is the idea here that the plenum produces ONLY if you have NO OTHER MODS?? Thats kind of... weird. Most people who go for a plenum will most likely have exhaust, and many other mods. A plenum is not likely to be the "one and only mod" anybody does...
Just wondering.
I just subscribed to watch the fireworks... :-)
While at it, the mention of toher mods confuses me. Is the idea here that the plenum produces ONLY if you have NO OTHER MODS?? Thats kind of... weird. Most people who go for a plenum will most likely have exhaust, and many other mods. A plenum is not likely to be the "one and only mod" anybody does...
Just wondering.
02-07-2004, 03:16 PM
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Well for the ROOKIES on the Dyno you should have ask the dyno tech how many runs it should take for max perf gains or ran the car till there was no more gains on the dyno. I see the lack of experience on your part. If you dont know what your doing and to CHEEP to BUY Dyno time ,then why bother to test............
Yes I have 15 plus years drag racing NHRA and 3 years NASCAR
late model stock car and yes I know the difference on dyno testing.
For me it's all about HP gains
Your attempt on testing a product was lame...............
Yes I have 15 plus years drag racing NHRA and 3 years NASCAR
late model stock car and yes I know the difference on dyno testing.
For me it's all about HP gains
Your attempt on testing a product was lame...............
02-07-2004, 03:54 PM
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This is awsome..... The claws come out-
Nobody can every prove anything around here......There will ALWAYS be a excuse why it didnt produce the gains. I cant believe the how people are ATTACKED for trying to give information. unbelievable......
I bet if they did show the gains crawford expected, They would say "I TOLD YOU SO!!!" and not question how the dyno was done at all.... Im not trying to make enemies here, im just making a observation.
Chris
Ohh yeah....and Rodad, were you there to watch the testing? If not....you should keep quiet until you know more about how the testing was done!
Nobody can every prove anything around here......There will ALWAYS be a excuse why it didnt produce the gains. I cant believe the how people are ATTACKED for trying to give information. unbelievable......
I bet if they did show the gains crawford expected, They would say "I TOLD YOU SO!!!" and not question how the dyno was done at all.... Im not trying to make enemies here, im just making a observation.
Chris
Ohh yeah....and Rodad, were you there to watch the testing? If not....you should keep quiet until you know more about how the testing was done!
Last edited by ChrisM; 02-07-2004 at 03:57 PM.
02-07-2004, 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by VandyZ
[B]A few days late and $20 dollars short. . .
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=59594
[B]A few days late and $20 dollars short. . .
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=59594
Are you kidding me??? The results were SO butchered on that dyno...Did you read the post? If that dyno didnt show any gains you would have a actual reason to complain..but since it showed good gains, your overlooking the faults.
Chris.
02-07-2004, 04:05 PM
#19
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Performance Nissan
Performance Nissan
Originally posted by lowrider
and the crew from Performance Nissan is wrong.Lou
and the crew from Performance Nissan is wrong.Lou
02-07-2004, 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by VandyZ
1. I sent dyno instructions, 4 runs is not enough to get the oil temps up and the car running optimally. If you want to argue with me, go ahead. I am sure myself and Doug have more experience with dynoing this car than anyone here.
1. I sent dyno instructions, 4 runs is not enough to get the oil temps up and the car running optimally. If you want to argue with me, go ahead. I am sure myself and Doug have more experience with dynoing this car than anyone here.
1) If the second set of runs weren't given enough time to warm up.. certainly the first set was not either.... so both would have been penalized
2) They drove the car around after the install as well.. that certainly would warm the car up more then rev'ing it on a dyno. Now he didn't say how much.. I figured you knock that first.
3) We haven't heard this 'requirement' before accepting the claims of every other dyno posted here. Why should it be different for the plenum?
I'm not doubting the validity of the product.. but in this 'war' that has been going on, both sides are nitpicking.
If hfm wanted such a independant, 'clean' dyno.. why didn't they use a stock car!?!?!?!?!?