NATS Failure = 1900$ fix
05-16-2009, 12:11 AM
#1
NATS Failure = 1900$ fix
To make a long story short. I filled my car up with gas, drove around town for about 20 minutes or so. Pull into the autozone parking lot to get some wax and things. Engine starts popping and backfires. The car dies will not start just cranks. Take it home, I thought the crank sensor went out, 190$ didn't fix it. Took it to the dealer, new ecu they said. I didn't think so but had them order one. Go to pick the car up runing like a pos beater still. Take it home hook up cypher, missfires on 4 cyls. Plug in old ecu, codes for nats failure.
Drive back to the dealer almost get in a fight with the tech after showing him the codes in the old ecu, make him reflash the vin into it. Car starts still running like crap, ask him wtf he thought i needed a new ecu. He tried to make up an awnser. I tell him for a nissan master tech your more like a retarded monkey. This is after he tells me my cams caused the missfire. BTW the new ecu is 1200$ from nissan.
Coil packs changed along with plugs and a new o2 sensor, missfire on cyl number one. Pull intake manifold and all coils out along with plugs check compression and leakdown test its fine. Check injectors they all fire. Wait for a friend to get off work. Check injectors while cranking the motor cyl 1 injector does not fire. It fires with another injectors clip hooked up. Check ecu pinout run new wire from ecu to injector still does not fire, run voltage to the pin on the connector, has voltage.
Long story shot if your Nissan Anti Theft System fails while your car is running it can cause a voltage spike and destroy lots of things with it. I found 4 burned coil packs, 1 bad o2 sensor and a bad injector driver on the ECU. FU NISSAN, and the tech can die in a fire for all i care, telling me there is no way to figure out why my car is running like it is with cams. lols.
The tech went to UTI, Untrained Tech Institute. Never call yourself a tech if you can not diagnose a problem. 99% of the techs I meet are retarded *** parts changers.
I added up the cost, it was more than 1900, it was 2400$.
Drive back to the dealer almost get in a fight with the tech after showing him the codes in the old ecu, make him reflash the vin into it. Car starts still running like crap, ask him wtf he thought i needed a new ecu. He tried to make up an awnser. I tell him for a nissan master tech your more like a retarded monkey. This is after he tells me my cams caused the missfire. BTW the new ecu is 1200$ from nissan.
Coil packs changed along with plugs and a new o2 sensor, missfire on cyl number one. Pull intake manifold and all coils out along with plugs check compression and leakdown test its fine. Check injectors they all fire. Wait for a friend to get off work. Check injectors while cranking the motor cyl 1 injector does not fire. It fires with another injectors clip hooked up. Check ecu pinout run new wire from ecu to injector still does not fire, run voltage to the pin on the connector, has voltage.
Long story shot if your Nissan Anti Theft System fails while your car is running it can cause a voltage spike and destroy lots of things with it. I found 4 burned coil packs, 1 bad o2 sensor and a bad injector driver on the ECU. FU NISSAN, and the tech can die in a fire for all i care, telling me there is no way to figure out why my car is running like it is with cams. lols.
The tech went to UTI, Untrained Tech Institute. Never call yourself a tech if you can not diagnose a problem. 99% of the techs I meet are retarded *** parts changers.
I added up the cost, it was more than 1900, it was 2400$.
Last edited by rocks; 05-16-2009 at 12:19 AM.
05-16-2009, 08:41 AM
#4
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NATS Failure
I've seen the NATS system fail randomly in a handful of vehicles. (I believe a couple of 2003 350Zs and a 2004 Titan). Usually just taking the key out of the ignition, waiting a bit, and trying again will allow the vehicle to start.
I've never seen this happen while a vehicle is driving.
When the key is inserted, a conversation takes place between the BCM and ECU over the CAN Bus and a token is exchanged to make sure both computers are synched with the same numeric token. If this fails then the ECU will cut fuel and not allow the engine to crank (not sure if it also cuts ignition).
I'm pretty sure all this happens only once although I'm not 100% positive.
From the sounds of it I _suspect_ that an electrical problem caused the NATS failure not the other way around. I'd have to do some extensive troubleshooting to be sure.
Since the BCM's method of communicating with the ECU is over the CAN bus, I'd expect a CAN bus failure would be the only way to cause a NATS failure while the car was driving. I've seen the CAN bus die on our 2005 350Z and the car continued driving. (It did throw various codes and the gauge cluster went crazy before stopping altogether)
I've never seen this happen while a vehicle is driving.
When the key is inserted, a conversation takes place between the BCM and ECU over the CAN Bus and a token is exchanged to make sure both computers are synched with the same numeric token. If this fails then the ECU will cut fuel and not allow the engine to crank (not sure if it also cuts ignition).
I'm pretty sure all this happens only once although I'm not 100% positive.
From the sounds of it I _suspect_ that an electrical problem caused the NATS failure not the other way around. I'd have to do some extensive troubleshooting to be sure.
Since the BCM's method of communicating with the ECU is over the CAN bus, I'd expect a CAN bus failure would be the only way to cause a NATS failure while the car was driving. I've seen the CAN bus die on our 2005 350Z and the car continued driving. (It did throw various codes and the gauge cluster went crazy before stopping altogether)
05-16-2009, 08:47 AM
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ive had a friend of mine screw up his NATS system in his 04 titan when he accidently stuck the keys to his brothers titan in there, for some reason it blew the bcm when they did this, luckly car was under warranty and they did know he used the wrong key. maybe coincidence do know?
05-16-2009, 09:29 AM
#6
My bcm and electrical system are all fine now. The ecu is new. The tech didn't know how to deal with a nats failure even though he was a nissan master tech. I didn't think they would fail while driving lol. I suspect I am probably the only person this has ever happend too. Just like a wrist pin falling out of the stock rod.... The tech told me he couldn't see the ecu with consult 2, I showed him the FSM pages where the link is in the can bus between the ecm and the bcm through the can bus. I explained to him that with a nats failure he woudln't be able to see the ecu, while the communication link was broke. He also could not fathom how I had the fsm. heh. Its all running good now I just need to tune the new ecu. 
I do have some electronics training. I used to do instrumentation on drilling rigs. Full datalogging systems with automation connected to a satilite uplink, I could make it drill a hole in the ground from a laptop at my house over the net. I really think it was just a freak once in a lifetime thing. I have checked the entire car out with a multimeter and verified everything is working.
I do have some electronics training. I used to do instrumentation on drilling rigs. Full datalogging systems with automation connected to a satilite uplink, I could make it drill a hole in the ground from a laptop at my house over the net. I really think it was just a freak once in a lifetime thing. I have checked the entire car out with a multimeter and verified everything is working.
Last edited by rocks; 05-16-2009 at 09:37 AM.
05-16-2009, 11:18 AM
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Can you get me the dead ECU? I'll see if I can get the license and rom transferred over for you.
My bcm and electrical system are all fine now. The ecu is new. The tech didn't know how to deal with a nats failure even though he was a nissan master tech. I didn't think they would fail while driving lol. I suspect I am probably the only person this has ever happend too. Just like a wrist pin falling out of the stock rod.... The tech told me he couldn't see the ecu with consult 2, I showed him the FSM pages where the link is in the can bus between the ecm and the bcm through the can bus. I explained to him that with a nats failure he woudln't be able to see the ecu, while the communication link was broke. He also could not fathom how I had the fsm. heh. Its all running good now I just need to tune the new ecu.
I do have some electronics training. I used to do instrumentation on drilling rigs. Full datalogging systems with automation connected to a satilite uplink, I could make it drill a hole in the ground from a laptop at my house over the net. I really think it was just a freak once in a lifetime thing. I have checked the entire car out with a multimeter and verified everything is working.
I do have some electronics training. I used to do instrumentation on drilling rigs. Full datalogging systems with automation connected to a satilite uplink, I could make it drill a hole in the ground from a laptop at my house over the net. I really think it was just a freak once in a lifetime thing. I have checked the entire car out with a multimeter and verified everything is working.
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05-16-2009, 12:25 PM
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so you took your modded car to the dealer to get fixed? you did need an ecu, but when they replaced it you got mad and started droppin f bombs? you solved your problem by replacing a bunch of parts then call most techs "retarded *** parts changers"?
05-16-2009, 12:30 PM
#10
The ECU is not dead, well not all the way. Just the injector driver on the ecu. I had bought a used ecu wich the tech told me was fried along with the ecu that has the bad injector driver I can still hook cypher and osiris up to it, and read it.
bimmertech - If you read my entire post you would see that there is more to it than just needing an ecu, that is if you have any sort of a brain.
bimmertech - If you read my entire post you would see that there is more to it than just needing an ecu, that is if you have any sort of a brain.
08-03-2012, 11:00 PM
#12
3 years later and it happens again. The car started running horrible pulled into an auto parts store one wide band went, miss fire codes. Made it half way home and the car died, the fans are on when the key is on, two front coil packs are burnt. Fans on = no communication to the ecu. Maybe now I will just light the thing on fire. Crank and no start. The ecu was so hot it nearly burned my skin.
08-04-2012, 06:51 AM
#14
NATS isn't causing this -- it's just software which can be disabled and actually lives partially the BCM. NATS code is just another symptom of whatever electrical mess you've got on your hands which includes a CAN failure between the BCM and ECM. shorts and/or grounding issues cause this. I hate to say it but you had it coming taking a highly modded car to the dealer and paying what dealers charge. I;m actually surprised they worked on it at all.
Last edited by djamps; 08-04-2012 at 06:56 AM.
08-04-2012, 07:13 AM
#15
The first thing I thought when reading this is there's no way nats caused this. Canbus is just a signalwire system that carrys voltage. Barely any current. You have a harness issue somehwere. Water, fraying wires, wires rubbing on the chassis, etc. Weird that it took 3 years for it to come back though...
08-04-2012, 07:29 AM
#17
The car has to go to the dealer.I do not have access to a consult II, I am sure you do not have one laying around your house either.
Last time this happend we went through the harness and grounds. No relays or fuses pop when this happens. The ecu getting hot seems like a short but I would also expect blown fuses.
I have a spare junkyard ecu that the dealer told me was fried last time along with the stock one. Do not turn this int retard comments over taking it to the dealer. That is the only way to reset the NATS and write the vin to the ecu along with programming keys. It just that they like to charge for parts not needed. Reason people call it the stealership...
Last time this happend we went through the harness and grounds. No relays or fuses pop when this happens. The ecu getting hot seems like a short but I would also expect blown fuses.
I have a spare junkyard ecu that the dealer told me was fried last time along with the stock one. Do not turn this int retard comments over taking it to the dealer. That is the only way to reset the NATS and write the vin to the ecu along with programming keys. It just that they like to charge for parts not needed. Reason people call it the stealership...
08-04-2012, 09:46 AM
#18
This is what information I need, and or help. If anyone that reads this has experience with Consult II, I need to know what to tell the tech to do with it to just reset the NATS system and re enable communication with the ECU. The only way they could do it last time was with a new ecu because mine was supposedly fried, along with the used one I bought. That tells me there is a procedure in Consult to enable a new ecu, even though he couldn't see the ecu through consult due to the Nats failure it had last time. I think this will need to be done before disabling the NATS system.
I wish had written down the code that it popped, for the failure. The reason I wanted to beat the Nissan tech last time is that the old "fried" ecu also worked in the car after this procedure.
I have a good used ECU from a junkyard, same year same model car. Was checked by uprev at one time and came out good. I also have spare coil packs to replace the bad ones.
Unless it is possible to disable the NATS system with the car in this state and have it run?
is what information I need, and or help. If anyone that reads this has experince with Consult II, I need to know what to tell the tech to do with it to just reset the NATS system and re enable comunication with the ECU. The only way they could do it last time was with a new ecu because mine was supposedly fried, along with the used one I bought. That tells me there is a procedure in Consult to enable a new ecu, even thought he couldn't see the ecu through consult due to the Nats failure it had last time. I think this will need to be done before disabling the NATS system.
I wish had wrote down the code that it popped, for the failure. The reason I wanted to beat the nissan tech last time is that the old "fried" ecu also worked in the car after this procedure.
I have a good used ECU from a junkyard, same year same model car. Was checked by uprev at one time and came out good. I also have spare coil packs to replace the bad ones.
Unless it is possible to disable the NATS system with the car in this state and have it run?
I wish had written down the code that it popped, for the failure. The reason I wanted to beat the Nissan tech last time is that the old "fried" ecu also worked in the car after this procedure.
I have a good used ECU from a junkyard, same year same model car. Was checked by uprev at one time and came out good. I also have spare coil packs to replace the bad ones.
Unless it is possible to disable the NATS system with the car in this state and have it run?
is what information I need, and or help. If anyone that reads this has experince with Consult II, I need to know what to tell the tech to do with it to just reset the NATS system and re enable comunication with the ECU. The only way they could do it last time was with a new ecu because mine was supposedly fried, along with the used one I bought. That tells me there is a procedure in Consult to enable a new ecu, even thought he couldn't see the ecu through consult due to the Nats failure it had last time. I think this will need to be done before disabling the NATS system.
I wish had wrote down the code that it popped, for the failure. The reason I wanted to beat the nissan tech last time is that the old "fried" ecu also worked in the car after this procedure.
I have a good used ECU from a junkyard, same year same model car. Was checked by uprev at one time and came out good. I also have spare coil packs to replace the bad ones.
Unless it is possible to disable the NATS system with the car in this state and have it run?
Last edited by rocks; 08-04-2012 at 09:48 AM.
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08-04-2012, 10:35 AM
#20
This is what information I need, and or help. If anyone that reads this has experience with Consult II, I need to know what to tell the tech to do with it to just reset the NATS system and re enable communication with the ECU. The only way they could do it last time was with a new ecu because mine was supposedly fried, along with the used one I bought. That tells me there is a procedure in Consult to enable a new ecu, even though he couldn't see the ecu through consult due to the Nats failure it had last time. I think this will need to be done before disabling the NATS system.
I wish had written down the code that it popped, for the failure. The reason I wanted to beat the Nissan tech last time is that the old "fried" ecu also worked in the car after this procedure.
I have a good used ECU from a junkyard, same year same model car. Was checked by uprev at one time and came out good. I also have spare coil packs to replace the bad ones.
Unless it is possible to disable the NATS system with the car in this state and have it run?
is what information I need, and or help. If anyone that reads this has experince with Consult II, I need to know what to tell the tech to do with it to just reset the NATS system and re enable comunication with the ECU. The only way they could do it last time was with a new ecu because mine was supposedly fried, along with the used one I bought. That tells me there is a procedure in Consult to enable a new ecu, even thought he couldn't see the ecu through consult due to the Nats failure it had last time. I think this will need to be done before disabling the NATS system.
I wish had wrote down the code that it popped, for the failure. The reason I wanted to beat the nissan tech last time is that the old "fried" ecu also worked in the car after this procedure.
I have a good used ECU from a junkyard, same year same model car. Was checked by uprev at one time and came out good. I also have spare coil packs to replace the bad ones.
Unless it is possible to disable the NATS system with the car in this state and have it run?
I wish had written down the code that it popped, for the failure. The reason I wanted to beat the Nissan tech last time is that the old "fried" ecu also worked in the car after this procedure.
I have a good used ECU from a junkyard, same year same model car. Was checked by uprev at one time and came out good. I also have spare coil packs to replace the bad ones.
Unless it is possible to disable the NATS system with the car in this state and have it run?
is what information I need, and or help. If anyone that reads this has experince with Consult II, I need to know what to tell the tech to do with it to just reset the NATS system and re enable comunication with the ECU. The only way they could do it last time was with a new ecu because mine was supposedly fried, along with the used one I bought. That tells me there is a procedure in Consult to enable a new ecu, even thought he couldn't see the ecu through consult due to the Nats failure it had last time. I think this will need to be done before disabling the NATS system.
I wish had wrote down the code that it popped, for the failure. The reason I wanted to beat the nissan tech last time is that the old "fried" ecu also worked in the car after this procedure.
I have a good used ECU from a junkyard, same year same model car. Was checked by uprev at one time and came out good. I also have spare coil packs to replace the bad ones.
Unless it is possible to disable the NATS system with the car in this state and have it run?
Can you flash/reflash the ecu in this state?
I would give the NATS disabling a shot. My car was in lock out mode and wouldn't even start with the correct key (i suspect my transponder in the key died after ~7 years) I wasn't sure if my car would even start if NATS was disabled while the car was still in lock out mode, but it did work. I'm just kinda surprised your car starts up if it is a NATS issue.