New Brand. Vordoven 19" rims Matte black 22mm offset
02-03-2015, 04:38 AM
#41
Yikes! Your statement is nearly gibberish. There is never a good reason to ignore statistical analysis. If you really believe you cannot do an analysis, there is no way to solve a problem or define a parameter.
Unfortunately, we have distracted/damaged the OP's thread. I'll accept the blame for this one and beg forgiveness.
Unfortunately, we have distracted/damaged the OP's thread. I'll accept the blame for this one and beg forgiveness.
It sounds like you're suggesting someone should compile statistics from all of the known wheel failures. Great! Then we can take sales figures and production numbers from various distributors and manufacturers to get an idea of the wheel population. Known failures divided by sets in use would give us the discrete failure rate. Cool.
Now we have this really crude and basically useless comparison of fcked up wheels relative to wheels sold with a bunch of variables unaccounted for. Do you think any police report in the world or independent party recorded all of the other necessary data required for the analysis that you're talking about? Tire pressure, tire size, ambient temperature, impact speed, impact angle, size/shape/material of what the guy drove into just to name a few.
Without those critical pieces of information, any attempt to analyze the data we can collect is pointless. As I said, we have to rely on the materials science to form a reasonable conclusion. It's like you're saying we need data to know for sure if gasoline is more flammable than water.
02-03-2015, 11:46 AM
#42
New Member
I understand your point but think that if wheel failure were a problem, we would know about it. I'll mention the current airbag problem as an example. I'll give you the last word on this (if you want).
02-03-2015, 12:02 PM
#43
New Member
Thread Starter
The data you need in order to be convinced does not exist for two reasons.
1) No one is going to take the time or spend the money to conduct an experiment in a controlled environment to show what basic materials science already suggests. The demand for the data simply isn't enough to justify the effort
2) We can never gather data from real world crashes/failures because there are too many uncontrolled variables for a legitimate comparison
That means we just have to rely on the basics to form our conclusions. Forged metal is stronger than cast metal. Low production costs are indicative of cutting corners, poor quality control, and poorly made products.
And if that's not enough, put all the science stuff aside, it's hard for an enthusiast to support or respect a company that comes in, copies designs and undercuts the reputable producers who have earned their respect from the community.
1) No one is going to take the time or spend the money to conduct an experiment in a controlled environment to show what basic materials science already suggests. The demand for the data simply isn't enough to justify the effort
2) We can never gather data from real world crashes/failures because there are too many uncontrolled variables for a legitimate comparison
That means we just have to rely on the basics to form our conclusions. Forged metal is stronger than cast metal. Low production costs are indicative of cutting corners, poor quality control, and poorly made products.
And if that's not enough, put all the science stuff aside, it's hard for an enthusiast to support or respect a company that comes in, copies designs and undercuts the reputable producers who have earned their respect from the community.
My friends and family members run on Varrstoens both 18" and 19" and no one has had any issues. No cracks, no unsual bends, I will have to check to see if any of their rims disintegrated on them though
...I don't think there needs to be a study to prove that forged steel is stronger than cast steel
But, I would say 99% of the time during everyday type driving, a cast wheel will hold up just as good as a forged one. I doubt you need a controlled study to agree to that one.
But wait, I forgot... you are buying a forged rim just in case you get into the worst case type of accident? You are buying a forged rim so you can roll on it with no tire for miles without bending it? You are buying a forged rim because it is the safest thing possible and your life is worth more than that? With that argument, you are better off trading in your z for a Tesla model S (I think it has the highest safety rating)
02-03-2015, 12:48 PM
#44
My car currently has ADR wheels. They were on it when I bought it last year. I hit the biggest pothole I've ever hit a few months ago. The windshield popped I hit it so hard. Thought for sure it bent or cracked the wheel. Stopped, got out, to my surprise there was no damage at all. My cheap wheel held up just fine.
I figure if I hit something hard enough to disintegrate a wheel, it's going to do a lot more damage. If not enough to total the car, at least enough to call it in to Geico.
Back on subject...Vordoven is making a limited run of Forme9s in Black Chrome. Accepting preorders now. I'm waiting on the Forme1s in Hyper Black to be back in stock because I want to stick with 19s.
I figure if I hit something hard enough to disintegrate a wheel, it's going to do a lot more damage. If not enough to total the car, at least enough to call it in to Geico.
Back on subject...Vordoven is making a limited run of Forme9s in Black Chrome. Accepting preorders now. I'm waiting on the Forme1s in Hyper Black to be back in stock because I want to stick with 19s.
Last edited by Bama J; 02-03-2015 at 12:50 PM.
02-03-2015, 12:51 PM
#45
New Member
Thread Starter
My car currently has ADR wheels. They were on it when I bought it last year. I hit the biggest pothole I've ever hit a few months ago. The windshield popped I hit it so hard. Thought for sure it bent or cracked the wheel. Stopped, got out, to my surprise there was no damage at all. My cheap wheel held up just fine.
I figure if I hit something hard enough to disintegrate a wheel, it's going to do a lot more damage. If not enough to total the car, at least enough to call it in to Geico.
I figure if I hit something hard enough to disintegrate a wheel, it's going to do a lot more damage. If not enough to total the car, at least enough to call it in to Geico.
02-03-2015, 01:06 PM
#46
Super Moderator
MY350Z.COM
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My car currently has ADR wheels. They were on it when I bought it last year. I hit the biggest pothole I've ever hit a few months ago. The windshield popped I hit it so hard. Thought for sure it bent or cracked the wheel. Stopped, got out, to my surprise there was no damage at all. My cheap wheel held up just fine.
I figure if I hit something hard enough to disintegrate a wheel, it's going to do a lot more damage. If not enough to total the car, at least enough to call it in to Geico.
Back on subject...Vordoven is making a limited run of Forme9s in Black Chrome. Accepting preorders now. I'm waiting on the Forme1s in Hyper Black to be back in stock because I want to stick with 19s.
I figure if I hit something hard enough to disintegrate a wheel, it's going to do a lot more damage. If not enough to total the car, at least enough to call it in to Geico.
Back on subject...Vordoven is making a limited run of Forme9s in Black Chrome. Accepting preorders now. I'm waiting on the Forme1s in Hyper Black to be back in stock because I want to stick with 19s.
Most OEM wheels are cast, many have stood strong for decades, many have cracked. With cast standard cast there is always a compromise between strength and weight.
Now the question that is important, quality and quality control. At a $700 price point for this size of wheel, where are they actually cutting the corner ?
If you want them, buy them have fun with them. They are a cheap wheel with proper sizing and offset for our car. Nothing more.
02-03-2015, 01:16 PM
#47
New Member
I have nearly the same experience you describe.
Configuration: My winter tire/wheel setup is Dunlop Graspic DS-2 studless tires (225/55-17” all-square ) mounted on 17” ADR wheels.
I hit a deep and long pothole I did not see because it was filled with water with a thin layer of ice over the top. I blew the tire and hit so hard I assumed I had wheel and suspension damage.
Although the tire was ruined, the wheel was perfectly fine with no damage. I think I paid about $40-50 dollars for these ADR wheels.
Configuration: My winter tire/wheel setup is Dunlop Graspic DS-2 studless tires (225/55-17” all-square ) mounted on 17” ADR wheels.
I hit a deep and long pothole I did not see because it was filled with water with a thin layer of ice over the top. I blew the tire and hit so hard I assumed I had wheel and suspension damage.
Although the tire was ruined, the wheel was perfectly fine with no damage. I think I paid about $40-50 dollars for these ADR wheels.
My car currently has ADR wheels. They were on it when I bought it last year. I hit the biggest pothole I've ever hit a few months ago. The windshield popped I hit it so hard. Thought for sure it bent or cracked the wheel. Stopped, got out, to my surprise there was no damage at all. My cheap wheel held up just fine.
I figure if I hit something hard enough to disintegrate a wheel, it's going to do a lot more damage. If not enough to total the car, at least enough to call it in to Geico.
Back on subject...Vordoven is making a limited run of Forme9s in Black Chrome. Accepting preorders now. I'm waiting on the Forme1s in Hyper Black to be back in stock because I want to stick with 19s.
I figure if I hit something hard enough to disintegrate a wheel, it's going to do a lot more damage. If not enough to total the car, at least enough to call it in to Geico.
Back on subject...Vordoven is making a limited run of Forme9s in Black Chrome. Accepting preorders now. I'm waiting on the Forme1s in Hyper Black to be back in stock because I want to stick with 19s.
02-03-2015, 01:25 PM
#48
New Member
I may have missed this information in the thread. What does the Vordoven wheel weigh?The wheel is obviously carved out with thin spokes that I assume result in a light-weight wheel. --Spike
02-04-2015, 04:56 AM
#50
Why would you need to conduct an experiment in a controlled environment? Why not just go by real life personal experiences?
My friends and family members run on Varrstoens both 18" and 19" and no one has had any issues. No cracks, no unsual bends, I will have to check to see if any of their rims disintegrated on them though...
I don't think there needs to be a study to prove that forged steel is stronger than cast steel
But, I would say 99% of the time during everyday type driving, a cast wheel will hold up just as good as a forged one. I doubt you need a controlled study to agree to that one.
But wait, I forgot... you are buying a forged rim just in case you get into the worst case type of accident? You are buying a forged rim so you can roll on it with no tire for miles without bending it? You are buying a forged rim because it is the safest thing possible and your life is worth more than that? With that argument, you are better off trading in your z for a Tesla model S (I think it has the highest safety rating)
My friends and family members run on Varrstoens both 18" and 19" and no one has had any issues. No cracks, no unsual bends, I will have to check to see if any of their rims disintegrated on them though
...I don't think there needs to be a study to prove that forged steel is stronger than cast steel
But, I would say 99% of the time during everyday type driving, a cast wheel will hold up just as good as a forged one. I doubt you need a controlled study to agree to that one.
But wait, I forgot... you are buying a forged rim just in case you get into the worst case type of accident? You are buying a forged rim so you can roll on it with no tire for miles without bending it? You are buying a forged rim because it is the safest thing possible and your life is worth more than that? With that argument, you are better off trading in your z for a Tesla model S (I think it has the highest safety rating)
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