'05 Track model -- any problems?
01-16-2005, 07:57 AM
#21
It is all speculation till I see an 04 and 05 bone stock dynoed back to back at the same dyno. Normally when you raise rev limits and make more peak HP at higher RPM you lose torque and lose the flatness of your torque band. That is the way motors work. It is like comparing our car to a Mustang GT. They have a much broader torque band because they don't rev nearly as high to make their peak hp. I know the Nissan engineers can say whatever they want, but I want dyno proof. Remember peak HP numbers sell cars to morons in showrooms. That is why Nissan did it.
01-16-2005, 10:28 AM
#22
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Originally posted by King Tut
It is all speculation till I see an 04 and 05 bone stock dynoed back to back at the same dyno. Normally when you raise rev limits and make more peak HP at higher RPM you lose torque and lose the flatness of your torque band. That is the way motors work. It is like comparing our car to a Mustang GT. They have a much broader torque band because they don't rev nearly as high to make their peak hp. I know the Nissan engineers can say whatever they want, but I want dyno proof. Remember peak HP numbers sell cars to morons in showrooms. That is why Nissan did it.
It is all speculation till I see an 04 and 05 bone stock dynoed back to back at the same dyno. Normally when you raise rev limits and make more peak HP at higher RPM you lose torque and lose the flatness of your torque band. That is the way motors work. It is like comparing our car to a Mustang GT. They have a much broader torque band because they don't rev nearly as high to make their peak hp. I know the Nissan engineers can say whatever they want, but I want dyno proof. Remember peak HP numbers sell cars to morons in showrooms. That is why Nissan did it.
I agree that in general shooting for high rev ability means reducing low rpm grunt, but when you are talking about a variable/adjustable spec. vehicle, is that true? Also, it is not as if Nissan increased the rpm range to S2000 standards..
I confused by your analogy, as it's not like comparing "our car to a Mustang GT".. Its comparing a 2003/4 350Z to a 2005 350Z. I wouldn't assume that Nissan is going to drastically adjust their approach and reduce driveability to trick the masses with an unuseable horsepower figure.
In any event, from a pure Z tradition standpoint, wouldn't you hope that they are not pitching to the "morons"? Especially after the Z and the Supra priced themselves out in the 90s.
Oh well, Z's rock, whatever year or #..
01-16-2005, 12:27 PM
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From a pure no BS standpoint, I would LIKE to think that Nissan wouldn't make all of those changes to the motor on their two top of the line models just to make the car perform the same...if not worse than the current models.
01-16-2005, 04:12 PM
#24
Well I would have thought that when they decide to raise the HP they would have also raised the torque, but they obviously couldn't do that because they definitely should have. I guess I just don't want people thinking that just cause they got the 05 Track with 13 more peak HP that they are going to be drastically quicker than a normal 05. I really think it is a ploy to sell more track models with the enticement of more peak hp, and it will probably work.
01-17-2005, 08:51 AM
#26
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Originally posted by 350Track
From a pure no BS standpoint, I would LIKE to think that Nissan wouldn't make all of those changes to the motor on their two top of the line models just to make the car perform the same...if not worse than the current models.
From a pure no BS standpoint, I would LIKE to think that Nissan wouldn't make all of those changes to the motor on their two top of the line models just to make the car perform the same...if not worse than the current models.
01-17-2005, 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by King Tut
Remember peak HP numbers sell cars to morons in showrooms. That is why Nissan did it.
Remember peak HP numbers sell cars to morons in showrooms. That is why Nissan did it.
01-18-2005, 09:44 AM
#29
Originally posted by Sr. Panza
Well, you obviously know more about hp and torque than I do but (as an 03' Track owner) I wouldn't call a person who has just purchased an 05' a moron. He must be doing something right!
Well, you obviously know more about hp and torque than I do but (as an 03' Track owner) I wouldn't call a person who has just purchased an 05' a moron. He must be doing something right!
01-18-2005, 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by King Tut
He is doing something right if he was planning on buying a Track all along. I'm talking about the people that allow car salesman to talk them into buying more expensive models then they want by talking about 13 more hp. I'm sure the salesman never mentions the loss in torque of course. Let's face it, peak HP sells cars in America. We all know it, its a question of whether we let ourselves be suckered into buying a car because of it. I hope those people buying 05 Tracks wanted a Track model all along and will enjoy it. I know if I could have afforded one I would have loved it.
He is doing something right if he was planning on buying a Track all along. I'm talking about the people that allow car salesman to talk them into buying more expensive models then they want by talking about 13 more hp. I'm sure the salesman never mentions the loss in torque of course. Let's face it, peak HP sells cars in America. We all know it, its a question of whether we let ourselves be suckered into buying a car because of it. I hope those people buying 05 Tracks wanted a Track model all along and will enjoy it. I know if I could have afforded one I would have loved it.
Yeah, I know what you mean actually. I got the track because of the wheels, brembo's, etc... but I do see how someone can be fooled into thinking their Z will be faster than anyone elses due to a small increase in hp. I guess the word 'moron' just jumped out at me when I read your post.
01-19-2005, 08:47 AM
#34
Originally posted by doc91671
You keep obsessing on peak torque, it has more torque at 6400 rpms than the standard engine has at 6200 rpms.
You keep obsessing on peak torque, it has more torque at 6400 rpms than the standard engine has at 6200 rpms.
01-20-2005, 06:07 PM
#35
It's still only a 5% difference in torque... Hardly noticeable in day to day wouldn't you agree ?
Please don't take this personnaly. I just noticjeed your being replied to in more than one topic on the subject.
Dyno graphs would be really nice...
Please don't take this personnaly. I just noticjeed your being replied to in more than one topic on the subject.
Dyno graphs would be really nice...
01-21-2005, 05:37 AM
#36
Yeah, we need dyno graphs. I am sure eventually there will be a dyno day with an 04 and an 05 Track bone stock. I'm just trying to stop everyone from freaking out about the new +5% hp and -5% torque engine thinking they need to go out and sell theirs to get an 05 Track.
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