Well, the morning strated out great. I left my home about 4:30 a.m. and it wasabout 65 degrees, nice. Buttonwillow is about 130 miles from my house and the drive was going great up until about 30 miles from the track. The temp started to drop and and the fog rolled in so thick that people were pulling to the side of the road. I was in a line of cars also going to the track and we were evenly spaced going about 30 on the FWY. Got to the track about 7a.m. and it was freezing, with a nice fog drizzle and zero visability. Temp was low 40's. Well, the fog stayed thick with no running until 12, and then we were only allowed yellow flag laps. They broke for lunch and it finally cleared enough to really run although there wasn't alot of grip on the track.

We ran configuration 1. At 3 miles it's the longest you can run. I ran the first session with a passenger and turned a 2:21 not too shabby. I ran the 2nd session sans passenger and dropped about 2 seconds. I only really got one clear lap and ran a 2:19 in my bone stock Z. So, how was the car? Well, honestly.........the Z understeers mercilessly. It's the perfect car for a beginner because it's pretty hard to really **** up with so much safety dialed into the suspension, but for the advanced driver, it's quite frustrating. No matter what I did, I could not get the car's nose to take a plant and charge the apex, even after dropping the front air pressure a bit. Tomorrow we'll see the full days results at speedventure's webite and I know my fast lap was probably one of the highest for any bone stock car, but the Z is no match for an S2K on race tires.

In pure stock form, I think the Z is faster around this track than the Stook, but there is no doubt the S2K would be much more fun in the process and that is really what it is all about. I think with a little more time and a couple of clear laps, a 2:18 was doable, but the Z begs for a better suspension, lowered about 1" with more roll stiffness in general with a greater percentage increase in the rear than front. The car could also use a racing alignment with more front camber. The car needs more front end bite!!! Race tires are worth around 3-5 seconds a lap as well. Hey, but the brakes were perfect all day. It will be interesting to see how the brakes hold up to race tires (coming soon). We will see, but we need more Z guys at the track!!

So how fast is a 2:19?? There were 117 cars there and I was about 18th fastest when I left, skipping the last session because it was getting late. Here are some results from an earlier event run in much better conditions:https://www.speedventures.net/event_...esults=OA&s=lt

 

See! This is what I'm talking about!!! If you guys haven't done so already, (I'll second Steve on this) make plans to TAKE YOUR Z TO THE TRACK! You have no idea what you're missing - you get to learn your limits, and learn the limits of the car - in a safe, controlled environment. This is what owning a sports car is all about!!!!! DON'T be A POSER! <A HREF="http://photos.imageevent.com/ethan84ae/nasahpdelimerockpark/">I've never had more fun clothed!</A>

I certainly don't have the experience that Steve has - the Z's suspension seemed just fine to me when I <A HREF="https://my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10974&highlight=Limerock">took my car to Lime Rock last Monday</A> - it was interesting to hear that the setup really isn't so optimal - I guess Nissan was somewhat conservative in the suspension settings - to cover their own *** perhaps? Steve, how tough do you think it will be to modify for serious track use?

Interesting to hear that they timed you guys - I heard that most events like this don't do any timing for insurance reasons - the one I attended (NASA HPDE) didn't.... that would have been cool Glad to hear that the Z was so competive, even in stock form...

Ethan
(picture below shows me approaching the braking zone at the end of the front straight at Limerock Park in CT.)

<IMG SRC="http://photos.imageevent.com/ethan84ae/nasahpdelimerockpark/large/350Z_front_straight.jpg">

 

I did a track day on my bike @ buttonwillow. I'm not sure of the configuration designation #, nor did I get any times. It would be interesting to take the Z there, running the same configuration.

Here's a pic, in which we ran clockwise:

 

We run config 1. Only difference is that we use the Star Mazda hairpin intead of the sweeper. Also ran Clockwise.

 

ok raceboy. I need to do a track ASAP. I live in San Diego. Is button willow my best bet.

So, how often is the track open for stuff like this? Every weekend? I need to get in the loop so I can start going to the track, but I need cheaper alternatives in case doing what you do costs something like $200 or something.

Is there a web site for events?

 

Willow springs is definitely closer. I think most people prefer it over button anyway.

 

So what's a car track day like compared to bikes?

I have been doing track days on my R6 for 2 years now and run in the advanced class. For the most part passing is allowed most anywhere. That part is fun, but with $30K+ cars I am sure only waving by is allowed.

I have never driven a car on a racetrack, so I am not sure how my bike experience will translate.

I can't wait to get out there though. (need a car first)

George

 

I like bike track days better, though car ones are still lots of fun. Aside from the obvious differences of car vs. bike (esp. an R6, which is about the ultimate track bike IMO), many of the differences seem to be driven by the higher popularity of cars:

- higher prices
- more groups less run time

Also, you're right in that passing is more tightly controlled...that's a good thing given the much higher price of cars, but picking people off in the corners on bikes is fun!

Another diff. is that track use seems much harder on a car...you can smell brake fluid and it feels like the car is being thrashed. Bikes take track use like it's just another day at the office.

Still, everyone w/ a high performance sports car should take it to the track at least once to really learn its limits in a safe, controlled environment.

 

Thanks for the insight Chris.

I guess that's how I envisioned it.

I just sold my R6 so I could afford a new car... Looks like I will be looking at another race bike in the spring.

There is nothing better than running down Ducati 996's and other 1000cc bikes and passing 3 or more in one corner.

George

 

Ran my stock Touring Z in an Auto X event last weekend at Camarillo Airport in California. The event was run by the Santa Barbara chapter of the Porsche Club of America. The course was marked out on the runways with cones and was about 3/4 mile long with a mixture of several short straights, high and low speed corners and a slalom. 1st, 2nd & 3rd gear course. WHAT A BLAST! We got 8 practice runs and then 3 timed runs at the end of the day. I learned a great deal about what the Z can, and cannot do. I agree with Raceboy that the car understeers in the corners. The car trys to claw its way around the corners when it is on the edge rather than the rear end breaking loose. I saw plenty of Porches spinning end-around 360s in the same corners. Otherwise the handling was very tight. My car has 1,500 miles on it so I ran all day with traction control on and limited rpms to 5,500. I ran a respectable fast lap of 54.190 which put me in the middle of the pack against 103 other cars, many of which were trailered in and not street legal. Thanks to a friendly Porsche crowd who had lots of compliments for the Z. Full results under events at http://www.pca.org/zone8/

 

Depends on which of Willows tracks you are talking about. To me the big track is simply boring in a street car and the potential for disaster is very high. Big Willow is the fastest track west of the Mississippi and if something does go wrong you are going to moving at a high rate of speed when it does.

If you are talking about the tight twisty Streets of Willow, that is a different story. The small track is awesome and you can be very agressive with very little consequence if you make a mistake.

Track days generally run between $125 to $250 depending on the organization and the track. I am really starting to like Speedventures because they run timing transponders.

I can't wait to get the Z dialed in with some R compound tires and a proper suspension setup. I don't like getting beaten by S2Ks!!! But in all fairness, my friend Marty Rouch with his stripped (2500lbs), supercharged, R tired, Mugen suspended S2000 was turning 2:15's while my bone stock, full interior, street tired, understeering Z was turing 2:19's. Obviously the Z has a lot of potential.

 

That's the thing, the Z is about as forgiving as you could ever imagine. It would take something really really stupid to actually have an accident at the track.

At the track they have a skidpad and I was demonstrating some nice controlled drifts for my friend. Short of mashing the trottle in second gear, there is no way to make the car spin. Lifting off the throttle, line tightens a little bit, slam on the brakes on the skidpad, back end stays planted. Great for beginners, but I am now desperately searching out a new suspension set up to dial out the understeer and at least get the car neutral.

 

Steve, check out the chart in the attached link. Maybe wider front tires would be a start until suspension pieces start becoming available.

http://www.kormanfastbmw.com/thandling.htm

 

In order to reduce the amount of understeer, we need to know what part of the corner it is the worst. There are different solutions, and causes, for entry, mid-corner and exit push.

I'm heading to VIR Dec 7-8 and would like your description of the car's behavior thru the corner. Just curious if the push is worse @ one point and better @ another, or just a pig all the way around?

 

The car is basically a pig all the way around on slower speed (<50MPH) corners; plows on turn in, plows midcorner, really plows on power applictation accept in 2nd gear corners where some power oversteer is available. Lift throttle only helps slightly. On faster corners, the car has good initial turn in bite, but then understeers as well. More front camber I think will really help.