Can somebody explain this about Bridgestone tires?
11-23-2002, 08:33 PM
#1
Can somebody explain this about Bridgestone tires?
According to Tire Rack, in a comparison between the RE040s and the S-03 Pole Positions, the S-03s are much cheaper and are ranked higher in every category from performance to tread life and ride quality. They are obviously the better tire, so why are the RE040s more expensive, and why in God's name did Nissan choose them as OE for the 350Z?
11-24-2002, 12:43 AM
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RE 040's are known as "Blow-tenza's" Just ask S4 owners and IS300 owners. Both Audi and Lexus did voluntary recalls to address tire sidewall bubbling issues and out of round issues. These tires really suck. For some strange reason if a tire is an OEM tire, then TireRack has them for some ridiculous price.
11-24-2002, 02:40 AM
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Just a some input from someone who ran Bridgestones for about 8months. I had purchased the RE730s from Tirerack for a decent price and didn't have much luck with them at all.. They were pretty shitty. I know there not the same model..however I will not be purchasing anymore Bridgestones... I just don't think they cut it in performance.. Couldn't hook below 55mph when below 70 degrees out. (not a power issue..as Im was relatively in the same HP area as you guys - Stock LT1) .. decent wet weather..however stock Goodyear GSCs seem to do better..and they only lasted 8months..They looked like slicks when I took them off...and I had only been hard on them a few times..NO track use..and drove maybe 9,000 miles. Overall not a good impression from them..and other peoples reviews of their products don't seem to be very positive. Just my .02
Robert
Robert
11-24-2002, 03:34 AM
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Radial drift and pulling issues
Originally posted by roberto350z
rumor has it that nissan got a great deal on a bunch of shitty *** tires...and this is why we are seeing radial drift and strange wear.
rumor has it that nissan got a great deal on a bunch of shitty *** tires...and this is why we are seeing radial drift and strange wear.
Dealers are doing alignments, but in most cases that does assist the issue, the only solution being reported for a correction or a reduced pull is the replacement of the front tires, both on 17's and 18's.
Please PM me with model, tires size and last for digits of the vin # if you have this problem or had your problem fixed, I will add your information which will be sent to Nissan.
11-24-2002, 05:34 AM
#6
Uneven wear, pulling to the right, high road noise, rough ride; these all seem to be tire related issues that are becoming more prominent as people get more miles on their cars. I wonder if, with enough ammo, we can get Nissan to give us different tires? I wonder if anyone running S-03s is experiencing any of these issues?
11-24-2002, 05:48 AM
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I've been bitching about the RE040s since I found out we were getting them as OE. They ride like rocks and have a ridiculously short tread life. I e-mailed my dealer about trading them out when the car came in but e-mail seems to be hard for them. Any way, I totally agree, if several owners intend to complain to Nissan, count me in.
By the way, I still have my owner's survey and I will mention how bad the tires are when I send it in. I would advise others to do the same. I think Nissan should pay a substantial part of trading the tires out. They are junk and Nissan should have known it. Some of the Tire Rack surveys were done in 2000, long before we received the cars.
By the way, I still have my owner's survey and I will mention how bad the tires are when I send it in. I would advise others to do the same. I think Nissan should pay a substantial part of trading the tires out. They are junk and Nissan should have known it. Some of the Tire Rack surveys were done in 2000, long before we received the cars.
Last edited by Boomer; 11-24-2002 at 05:55 AM.
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11-24-2002, 06:26 AM
#8
Discussion with Nissan about tire choice
Originally posted by MustGoFastR
Uneven wear, pulling to the right, high road noise, rough ride; these all seem to be tire related issues that are becoming more prominent as people get more miles on their cars. I wonder if, with enough ammo, we can get Nissan to give us different tires? I wonder if anyone running S-03s is experiencing any of these issues?
Uneven wear, pulling to the right, high road noise, rough ride; these all seem to be tire related issues that are becoming more prominent as people get more miles on their cars. I wonder if, with enough ammo, we can get Nissan to give us different tires? I wonder if anyone running S-03s is experiencing any of these issues?
I had the unexpected pleasure last week of talking to Yoshitaka Iijima, the Nissan 350Z suspension design engineer about tire choices. My preorder literature, personal inspection of the pre-production prototypes and indeed even the Tamiya 1/24th model kit all indicated that the 350Z would be equipped with Michelin Pilot Sport tires. I asked him why the production cars came with Bridgestones instead of Michelins. I think he was surprised by my question at first, but related that in testing, the Bridgestone sidewall characteristics gave Nissan the sharp and crisp turn-in qualities they were seeking. The Michelin was a bit "softer" and thus retained for OEM on the G35C. Thus, the choice initially boiled down to handling. Remember that we bought a sportscar, and that a certain level of handling/responsiveness was what Nissan was shooting for to deliver at the price point. A sportscar and it's attendant handling means compromises in other areas that (being a 240) owner will live with in order to achieve the handling expected in a high performance sportscar. I am amused by those who want to buy the 350Z (a sportscar!) and then complain about the "terrible, bouncy" ride -- excuse me, buy a Crown Vic why don't you!
I think it is still early to tell if there is really a widespread problem with these tires on ALL 350s delivered. Yes, my front RE040s are showing increased wear on the inside tread at 4800 miles. If consumer use of this rubber proves indeed premature in terms of treadlife due to uneven wear, then there may be other problems. Only time will tell. It was interesting to note at yesterday's Dallas 350Z meet though that SkidaZZle's Bridgestone Pole Position S-03s with a couple of thousand miles exhibited barely the same wear characteristics -- again only time will tell. The S-03 has a very different tire contact patch than the RE-040.
Personally, if this is an RE-040 tire issue (a friend with an Audi S4 equiped with RE-040s was also not impressed with the tire), I will be happy that the 140 treadwear rating of the RE-040 will let me change out that much sooner to S-03s. If it is on the other hand, an alignment issue, then the strength of the members of this board speaking in unison to Nissan will hopefully get results.
Only time and mileage will tell.
11-24-2002, 07:26 AM
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OE tires are always more expensive unless it's a rare tire across the board then generally it's just expesive period (S2k & S-02s come to mind).
As far as RE040s, the tires aren't that great but they can manage (and I mean they are minimal traction in snow) in snow compared to Potenza S-02 or S-03s which too me sounds like the reason Nissan choose them. Keep in mind Nissan pays no where near what we pay for the OE tires.
As far as RE040s, the tires aren't that great but they can manage (and I mean they are minimal traction in snow) in snow compared to Potenza S-02 or S-03s which too me sounds like the reason Nissan choose them. Keep in mind Nissan pays no where near what we pay for the OE tires.
11-24-2002, 11:10 AM
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I hate to say it but this could be an inherent design flaw in the suspension for the Z, or simply being equipped with horrilbe tires. Back in '98 they had horrible tire cupping and out of round wear characteristics with Pathfinders and QX4's, and Nissan's Customer Service, was goodwilling new tires on a "case by case basis".
Yes, the pathfinder and QX4's are very different vehicles from the Z, however the OEM tires on these vehicles were Bridgestones as well, and the countermeasure "goodwill" tires that they were replacing for customers were Michelins. This resolved the issue slightly, however some vehicles still had the tire wear issue after this so Nissan ended up replacing at least two sets of tires with Michelins as goodwill. By the time you wore thru two sets of tires you ended up being out of warranty and then of course the owners are S.O.L. - **** out of luck.
Then Nissan points to the warranty booklet and says oh, well "as described in your owners' manual, tires are a wearable items and we can't be responsible, especially when Nissan does not even warrant the tires. . .please contact the tire manufacturer for assistance."
I went through this crap with my '98 Pathfinder SE 2wd.
Interesting enough, my 92 Maxima SE, I could never quite get the alignment done right either. I wonder if Nissan's simply have alignment problems from day one?
On a side note, I wonder if the fact that Bridgestone and Firestone are the same company have anything to do with the tires being of such shitty quality?
Yes, the pathfinder and QX4's are very different vehicles from the Z, however the OEM tires on these vehicles were Bridgestones as well, and the countermeasure "goodwill" tires that they were replacing for customers were Michelins. This resolved the issue slightly, however some vehicles still had the tire wear issue after this so Nissan ended up replacing at least two sets of tires with Michelins as goodwill. By the time you wore thru two sets of tires you ended up being out of warranty and then of course the owners are S.O.L. - **** out of luck.
Then Nissan points to the warranty booklet and says oh, well "as described in your owners' manual, tires are a wearable items and we can't be responsible, especially when Nissan does not even warrant the tires. . .please contact the tire manufacturer for assistance."
I went through this crap with my '98 Pathfinder SE 2wd.
Interesting enough, my 92 Maxima SE, I could never quite get the alignment done right either. I wonder if Nissan's simply have alignment problems from day one?
On a side note, I wonder if the fact that Bridgestone and Firestone are the same company have anything to do with the tires being of such shitty quality?
Last edited by DBZ; 11-24-2002 at 11:12 AM.
11-24-2002, 11:50 AM
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Re: Discussion with Nissan about tire choice
Originally posted by ChinaClipper
All:
I had the unexpected pleasure last week of talking to Yoshitaka Iijima, the Nissan 350Z suspension design engineer about tire choices. My preorder literature, personal inspection of the pre-production prototypes and indeed even the Tamiya 1/24th model kit all indicated that the 350Z would be equipped with Michelin Pilot Sport tires. I asked him why the production cars came with Bridgestones instead of Michelins. I think he was surprised by my question at first, but related that in testing, the Bridgestone sidewall characteristics gave Nissan the sharp and crisp turn-in qualities they were seeking. The Michelin was a bit "softer" and thus retained for OEM on the G35C. Thus, the choice initially boiled down to handling. Remember that we bought a sportscar, and that a certain level of handling/responsiveness was what Nissan was shooting for to deliver at the price point. A sportscar and it's attendant handling means compromises in other areas that (being a 240) owner will live with in order to achieve the handling expected in a high performance sportscar. I am amused by those who want to buy the 350Z (a sportscar!) and then complain about the "terrible, bouncy" ride -- excuse me, buy a Crown Vic why don't you!
I think it is still early to tell if there is really a widespread problem with these tires on ALL 350s delivered. Yes, my front RE040s are showing increased wear on the inside tread at 4800 miles. If consumer use of this rubber proves indeed premature in terms of treadlife due to uneven wear, then there may be other problems. Only time will tell. It was interesting to note at yesterday's Dallas 350Z meet though that SkidaZZle's Bridgestone Pole Position S-03s with a couple of thousand miles exhibited barely the same wear characteristics -- again only time will tell. The S-03 has a very different tire contact patch than the RE-040.
Personally, if this is an RE-040 tire issue (a friend with an Audi S4 equiped with RE-040s was also not impressed with the tire), I will be happy that the 140 treadwear rating of the RE-040 will let me change out that much sooner to S-03s. If it is on the other hand, an alignment issue, then the strength of the members of this board speaking in unison to Nissan will hopefully get results.
Only time and mileage will tell.
All:
I had the unexpected pleasure last week of talking to Yoshitaka Iijima, the Nissan 350Z suspension design engineer about tire choices. My preorder literature, personal inspection of the pre-production prototypes and indeed even the Tamiya 1/24th model kit all indicated that the 350Z would be equipped with Michelin Pilot Sport tires. I asked him why the production cars came with Bridgestones instead of Michelins. I think he was surprised by my question at first, but related that in testing, the Bridgestone sidewall characteristics gave Nissan the sharp and crisp turn-in qualities they were seeking. The Michelin was a bit "softer" and thus retained for OEM on the G35C. Thus, the choice initially boiled down to handling. Remember that we bought a sportscar, and that a certain level of handling/responsiveness was what Nissan was shooting for to deliver at the price point. A sportscar and it's attendant handling means compromises in other areas that (being a 240) owner will live with in order to achieve the handling expected in a high performance sportscar. I am amused by those who want to buy the 350Z (a sportscar!) and then complain about the "terrible, bouncy" ride -- excuse me, buy a Crown Vic why don't you!
I think it is still early to tell if there is really a widespread problem with these tires on ALL 350s delivered. Yes, my front RE040s are showing increased wear on the inside tread at 4800 miles. If consumer use of this rubber proves indeed premature in terms of treadlife due to uneven wear, then there may be other problems. Only time will tell. It was interesting to note at yesterday's Dallas 350Z meet though that SkidaZZle's Bridgestone Pole Position S-03s with a couple of thousand miles exhibited barely the same wear characteristics -- again only time will tell. The S-03 has a very different tire contact patch than the RE-040.
Personally, if this is an RE-040 tire issue (a friend with an Audi S4 equiped with RE-040s was also not impressed with the tire), I will be happy that the 140 treadwear rating of the RE-040 will let me change out that much sooner to S-03s. If it is on the other hand, an alignment issue, then the strength of the members of this board speaking in unison to Nissan will hopefully get results.
Only time and mileage will tell.
Also, I bought my first sports car(first new car)in 1965, a 65 Triumph TR4 with lever shocks on the rear and I know what a sports car in the Grand Tradition is, and the "bounce" owners, including myself, are getting on the highway are the tires, not the suspension. I am sick of hearing,"if you don't like it, you should of bought another car". You are not me and you have no inkling of how insulting that remark has become to a goodly number of owners on this forum and others. I find your "information " to be worthless and highly suspect if you think a development engineer will tell you the truth about why they selected an obviously inferior tire. I owned a 1972 240Z for 7 years and never encountered the poor highway ride the 040s are giving us.
I don't believe the Bridgestones were chosen for their turnin over the Pilot Sports. I think they were chosen to cover a price point and handled well enough on flat dry pavement, they were chosen. Great handling, huh? .88 G is great handling, right! Look at the results of Tire Rack's comparison with Michelin Pilot Sport A/Ss.
The A/Ss are ultra high performance all season tires and performed better in every test when compared to the 040s. I would have had my preorder Z changed to the Michelins when my car came in after waiting 7 months and 26 days, if there hadn't been a mis-communication with my dealer. As soon as I found out we were getting the 040s, I began looking for replacements because of their bad reviews. Unfortunately, I was unsuccessful when my dealer dropped the ball and didn't answer my e-mails on the subject of new tires.
Tell you what, why don't you pay for replacements for the 040s when they fail before 12,000 miles on all the preorder Zs, you seem to think its no problem to whip out a grand or so to buy new tires if the 040s turn to ****? Oh, right, you have uneven wear after 4800 miles, so you may be in the market, too. Think you can help us out, Slick?
Boomer--arrogance and stupidity are all too often found in one place.
11-24-2002, 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by BFG10
Will the dealer swap them out with some Pilot Sports before I take delivery?
Will the dealer swap them out with some Pilot Sports before I take delivery?
At least the OE Bridgestone RE71s had the good taste to wear out at 20,000 miles on my 91 MR2T. A high mileage compared to the 040s, I feel sure..
Last edited by Boomer; 11-24-2002 at 12:20 PM.
11-24-2002, 12:54 PM
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Re: tires
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Boomer
[B]I don't see why not, contact them now and get them to find a price for the swap and then check with Tire Rack to see if they are charging too much. Just treat it as another option you want. I just wish I had been able to do it myself.
Thanks Boomer. Do you know if the A/S Pilot Sports have the same nice looking profile and are as good as the regular Pilot Sports?
Also, not to get off the subject but, does anyone know if we can put a lower (aspect ratio) profile tire (still 18's) on, like a 40 instead of a 45? If so, what would be the right sizes for front and back?
[B]I don't see why not, contact them now and get them to find a price for the swap and then check with Tire Rack to see if they are charging too much. Just treat it as another option you want. I just wish I had been able to do it myself.
Thanks Boomer. Do you know if the A/S Pilot Sports have the same nice looking profile and are as good as the regular Pilot Sports?
Also, not to get off the subject but, does anyone know if we can put a lower (aspect ratio) profile tire (still 18's) on, like a 40 instead of a 45? If so, what would be the right sizes for front and back?
11-24-2002, 01:31 PM
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Re: Re: tires
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BFG10
[B]
You need to go to the thread about"wheels and tires" on this site. It has a wealth of information, including questions about aspect ratios and just about any other question you could think of. Its pretty long but don't get overwhelmed, you'll find your answer.
[B]
Originally posted by Boomer
I don't see why not, contact them now and get them to find a price for the swap and then check with Tire Rack to see if they are charging too much. Just treat it as another option you want. I just wish I had been able to do it myself.
Thanks Boomer. Do you know if the A/S Pilot Sports have the same nice looking profile and are as good as the regular Pilot Sports?
Also, not to get off the subject but, does anyone know if we can put a lower (aspect ratio) profile tire (still 18's) on, like a 40 instead of a 45? If so, what would be the right sizes for front and back?
I don't see why not, contact them now and get them to find a price for the swap and then check with Tire Rack to see if they are charging too much. Just treat it as another option you want. I just wish I had been able to do it myself.
Thanks Boomer. Do you know if the A/S Pilot Sports have the same nice looking profile and are as good as the regular Pilot Sports?
Also, not to get off the subject but, does anyone know if we can put a lower (aspect ratio) profile tire (still 18's) on, like a 40 instead of a 45? If so, what would be the right sizes for front and back?
11-24-2002, 02:14 PM
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That's Funny ChinaClipper
"Should have bought a Crown Vic"
My 300-TT has adjustable shocks - set on "Touring", it rides like a Crown Vic - set on "Sport", it rides like a 350Z. I believe my '84
300-T has 3 settings.
On the other hand, my '70 240 has no power steering - Is the 350 not a true sports car because it has ps?
Adjustable shocks would have been a nice option.
My 300-TT has adjustable shocks - set on "Touring", it rides like a Crown Vic - set on "Sport", it rides like a 350Z. I believe my '84
300-T has 3 settings.
On the other hand, my '70 240 has no power steering - Is the 350 not a true sports car because it has ps?
Adjustable shocks would have been a nice option.
11-24-2002, 03:45 PM
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The integrity of ChinaClipper's information is good, IMO. He's one of the few privileged ZCOT members that are privvy to that sort of information -- some of it is ok for public consumption and some of it must be kept under his hat under lock & key. If you guys are unfamiliar w/ ZCOT, one of its more infamous members, "Mad" Mike Taylor played a major role in the Z's return. So it's no wonder if other ZCOT members have access to information and/or direct contact w/ Nissan engineers.
Personally, I'm not happy w/ the whole "even tire-wear impediment" issue. The 300 is plagued w/ the same problem and tires typically last me 12,000 miles. The only saving grace is that I can get those tires for < $100/ea.
Then again, I think some are missing the point. Personally, I agree w/ ChinaClipper; however, perhaps G35 [coupe] is a better alternative than Crown Vic. Consider: on one hand, you have automobile magazine articles criticizing the 350 as being more of a GT car than a pure sports car (something the 300 was criticized as being and something Nissan wanted to correct). Then, on the other hand, you have owners criticizing the 350 for "abnormal" tire wear, cheap interiors, bouncy rides, etc. I'd say this puts Nissan in an interesting quandry.
I don't think the ride is bouncy at all, however, I do think the ride is firm -- my 300 on sport mode is bouncy. My daily commutes puts me on the potholed backroads of DFW so, yes, the ride is every-so slightly bone jarring. But more importantly, I am connected to the road. Ask any 300 --> Corvette owner and most, if not all, of them will say the 300 will feel tighter although the Corvette has greater handling capabilities. And that is because the standard Corvette suspension has a softer ride.
Nonetheless, I think Nissan made a major faux pas by not allowing camber adjustment. This makes me wonder if it's due to suspension design. And if that's the case, then given those two evils, abnormal/accelerated tire wear or lower handling capability -- I choose abnormal/accelerated tire wear. I just hope there will be "inexpensive" tires available like on the 300.
Michael.
Personally, I'm not happy w/ the whole "even tire-wear impediment" issue. The 300 is plagued w/ the same problem and tires typically last me 12,000 miles. The only saving grace is that I can get those tires for < $100/ea.
Then again, I think some are missing the point. Personally, I agree w/ ChinaClipper; however, perhaps G35 [coupe] is a better alternative than Crown Vic. Consider: on one hand, you have automobile magazine articles criticizing the 350 as being more of a GT car than a pure sports car (something the 300 was criticized as being and something Nissan wanted to correct). Then, on the other hand, you have owners criticizing the 350 for "abnormal" tire wear, cheap interiors, bouncy rides, etc. I'd say this puts Nissan in an interesting quandry.
I don't think the ride is bouncy at all, however, I do think the ride is firm -- my 300 on sport mode is bouncy. My daily commutes puts me on the potholed backroads of DFW so, yes, the ride is every-so slightly bone jarring. But more importantly, I am connected to the road. Ask any 300 --> Corvette owner and most, if not all, of them will say the 300 will feel tighter although the Corvette has greater handling capabilities. And that is because the standard Corvette suspension has a softer ride.
Nonetheless, I think Nissan made a major faux pas by not allowing camber adjustment. This makes me wonder if it's due to suspension design. And if that's the case, then given those two evils, abnormal/accelerated tire wear or lower handling capability -- I choose abnormal/accelerated tire wear. I just hope there will be "inexpensive" tires available like on the 300.
Michael.
11-24-2002, 04:28 PM
#19
No sense of humor?
Originally posted by Boomer
Will you be happy to pay full price for the new tires at 12,000 miles or below that? I bought the car for high speed traveling across the country and what am I supposed to do if I run into a 1/2" of snow?
I am sick of hearing,"if you don't like it, you should of bought another car". You are not me and you have no inkling of how insulting that remark has become to a goodly number of owners on this forum and others. I find your "information " to be worthless and highly suspect if you think a development engineer will tell you the truth about why they selected an obviously inferior tire.
I don't believe the Bridgestones were chosen for their turnin over the Pilot Sports. Great handling, huh? .88 G is great handling, right!
Tell you what, why don't you pay for replacements for the 040s when they fail before 12,000 miles on all the preorder Zs, you seem to think its no problem to whip out a grand or so to buy new tires if the 040s turn to ****? Oh, right, you have uneven wear after 4800 miles, so you may be in the market, too. Think you can help us out, Slick?
Boomer--arrogance and stupidity are all too often found in one place.
Will you be happy to pay full price for the new tires at 12,000 miles or below that? I bought the car for high speed traveling across the country and what am I supposed to do if I run into a 1/2" of snow?
I am sick of hearing,"if you don't like it, you should of bought another car". You are not me and you have no inkling of how insulting that remark has become to a goodly number of owners on this forum and others. I find your "information " to be worthless and highly suspect if you think a development engineer will tell you the truth about why they selected an obviously inferior tire.
I don't believe the Bridgestones were chosen for their turnin over the Pilot Sports. Great handling, huh? .88 G is great handling, right!
Tell you what, why don't you pay for replacements for the 040s when they fail before 12,000 miles on all the preorder Zs, you seem to think its no problem to whip out a grand or so to buy new tires if the 040s turn to ****? Oh, right, you have uneven wear after 4800 miles, so you may be in the market, too. Think you can help us out, Slick?
Boomer--arrogance and stupidity are all too often found in one place.
I was just trying to pass on information that might, or might not, be of help in this discussion. You disagree- okay. No need to get personal.
11-24-2002, 08:04 PM
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Re: No sense of humor?
Originally posted by ChinaClipper
Boomer, I hope you are just having a bad day today, because I think you missed my "smilie" above. No offense meant and your attack on me is a bit harsh. Everything is cool, okay?
I was just trying to pass on information that might, or might not, be of help in this discussion. You disagree- okay. No need to get personal.
Boomer, I hope you are just having a bad day today, because I think you missed my "smilie" above. No offense meant and your attack on me is a bit harsh. Everything is cool, okay?
I was just trying to pass on information that might, or might not, be of help in this discussion. You disagree- okay. No need to get personal.
I really do believe we have a serious problem with the 040s. I have already slammed them in my Nissan Owner Survey and they will be prominent in the JD Power survey as well. Maybe Nissan will listen to their fans, if they don't, fans are fickle and they may not wish to find out how fickle we can be.
Boomer
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