dragonbz99

iTrader: (1)

the m3 should not pull hard on a Z at 80 mph since Z has more torque than m3 274 compared to 262. also, Z is 200 pounds lighter than m3 so it would respond faster

steve c

So can a Mazda Miata with the right driver? What's your point? You seem to be set on convincing yourself that your 350Z is somthing that it simply is not. It is not as fast or capable as an M3 -- or per your earlier posts a 911. Period. No if's, no and's, no but's.

Before your trip down this delusional path goes any further I suggest you actually partake of some track time so that you are speaking from experience and not some ricer video.

webcarconnection

Are you joking!, I'm saying that just for seeing the video I already post that I know a little about "Track Racing", in other hand this thread is for the Z owners see this cool video, I'm just repeating what the Japannesse said. In my opinion the M3 is more fast in streigth line that the Z, but I just repeat what the Jap. said about the "exiting coners" and "excellent respons". the driver of the M3 is one of the best drivers in Japan.

PS about the 911 dont start there, I said I will tape future races, so every Non believer, Believe it.

max2000jp

You are kidding right??? Look at the trap speeds and tell me the Z will pull on the E46 M3

r34 racer

iTrader: (1)

First of all, let it be known that trap speeds are measured on prepared track, sprayed with traction additive and years of tire laydown--there's incredible traction. For our purposes, we arent gonna meet an m3 at a light, and tell the driver to come to the track. Most people will just race the car right there. On the street. Key word: street. No traction boosters. This causes more wheelspin, less power to the ground, and in turn less speed and acelleration capability. At this point, between a Z and m3, its all down to driver ability and how well he/she can modulate power to the ground.

That said, trap speeds are inherently inconclusive because they simply state the speed when the car crosses the finish line. Cars have different torque capabilites at various points in their powerbands, meaning acelleration is nonlinear and cannot be related to speed with a generalized equation. At different rpm's, cars will tend to pull more or less depending on available torque as well as traction. Therefore, saying that an m3 will pull on a Z is not justifiable by trap speeds. I, for one, have to back up dragonbz99 here because he states a fact that can be directly linked to acelleration ability-peak torque and weight (as proven by the general physics formula, force=mass*acelleration, a lower mass will require less force to acellerate to a set speed). However, i must disagree slightly with peak torque because acelleration, again, comes down to gear ratio and torque at the individual rpm and gear each vehicle is at.

If you are still awake after reading my drivel, you know now that you cant base acelleration on trap speed.

[edited for grammar--i was typing too fast lol]

steve c

Honestly I can't really understand what you wrote -- but it sounds as if you are standing by your ignorant statement that a 350 is going to be quicker on the track than an M3. Again I must state that you are only fooling yourself with this misconception -- and demonstrating that you have no experience tracking cars.

Who gives two ***** where the times come from, the M3 is going to trap higher regardless of whether there is any VHT on the surface or not.

You must be kidding. You cannot honestly beleive a 350Z stands a chance against any E46 M3 -- excepting perhaps on a rare ocassion an SMG Convertible -- but even then it takes a really big imagination (or a lot of stupidity) to believe the 350 is really comparable.

Again, wrong. Trap speeds are a solid indicator of horsepower.

dragonbz99

iTrader: (1)

why does everyoen give so mcuh credit to the m3, hands down its a good car but, why dont you guys believe Z can beat it, just cuz its an m3 and has more hp? not hp is one factor in a car, not everything

r34 racer

iTrader: (1)

Once again, you base your judgement on equal driver scenarios, which are totally bogus and very rare. You may as well go race a mirror. This is not the case in REAL life. How often have you met a driver that is perfectly matched to you? If you want to stand by your textbooks, feel free to do so, but you are only blinding yourself.

For instance, a kid in my school owns a white M3 smg coupe. Me and my friends on the ride home saw him driving with his right hand on the wheel and the left on the gear selector. If you pulled up to him in a Z who do you think would win? My point exactly. M3 ownership doesnt turn ham fisted drivers into regular schumachers.

Finally, trap speeds are NOT an indication of horsepower. I can burn out half the length of the track and still get a high trap speed if my car has a lot of horsepower. The trap speed will severely underestimate my horsepower if i cannot get enough of it to the ground to make a decent run. If my car has less hp but i manage a good launch, the trap speed will overestimate the HP my car is making.

Perhaps instead of making comments about my knowledge of cars (which i assure you is vast), you should focus on getting your facts straight.

Oh and btw, i wasnt talking vht/no vht. I was talking gravel, sand, roughness, and other EVERYDAY road conditions.

max2000jp

Its amazing how little people know about cars and racing in general. Trap speed is an indicator of the CARS POTENTIAL. The M3 traps significantly higher therefore it is quicker. ET's and 60' times measure how well the car "hooks up". Again if you think that the Z is faster than a E46 M3 at any speed, you have little knowledge of cars in general.

dragonbz99

iTrader: (1)

this arguement is so pointless, fact is that the dvd said Z is better than m3 in many aspects, its up to you to accept. since many of us differ in opinion, why dont we just go race an m3 and find out for ourselves!

max2000jp

Well be prepared to be looking at E46 tailights and admiring the ///M power.

r34 racer

iTrader: (1)

It is a measure of car's potential, true, but thats on a drag strip and under relatively constant and favorable conditions. How many streets have you driven on and thought to yourself, "Hmm, this road is exactly like a drag strip"? Thats right, we like to call it the REAL WORLD.


Again, like dragonbz99 said, go race an m3 if you still dont believe me. Frankly i'd rather trust a driver who has real world racing experience than someone who thinks he knows his cars.

r34 racer

iTrader: (1)

And you dont?

dragonbz99

iTrader: (1)

exiting coners" and "excellent respons". - thats what we are talkgin about, not straight accel.

i do think that the Z is better in this aspect since i watch an s2k race an m3 smg, and in the beginng the s2k did pull ont he m3, but later, the m3 caught up. if you dont give the m3 its space, it wont be fast, the weight to torque ratio is so mcuh worse than the Z so the Z should be more responsive

now.. about the m3 beating Z in a straight line, yes maybe it probably will since it has the greater hp but on the track or normal driving conditions on regular roads it will be hard to say

steve c

Maybe because they can run 13.2's stock --- even with magazine drivers and the 350 can't?

Tell you what, the first time you go to the track (it's obvious you are speaking from internet and not real experience) why don't you run that theory by some of the regulars.

This thread further proves my theory that most 250 owners have stepped out of Accords, Camry's and Civic's and don't understand what a fast car is as they have no experience with them.

max2000jp

Yea in the "real world" a Geo Metro can pull on a Z06. Is the Metro faster???? You obviously dont have a clue what you are talking about. A good friend of mine has a 02 E46 M3 Manual and took it to Route 66 Raceway this summer. His very first time at a dragstrip he was able to muster off a 13.3 @10X with a 2.1X 60'. I have seen a few Z's posts times on here and they weren't even close to that. The difference in stock vs stock trap speeds is 5+mph. If the M3 driver has minimal skills and can put his car in the right gear at speeds, its no contest from a roll.

max2000jp

Man dont worry about the internet racer, the numbers dont lie.

dragonbz99

iTrader: (1)

who the hell cares about stats... truthfully tell me how many times have you clocked your quarter mile.. every day? how many times have you gone over 100 mph

im a kid in hs and i surely dotn do that stuff and ill tell you one thing... i get ALOT more looks and girls than the guy with the m3... the first day i drove my car his face was and ill tell you.. it was satisfying

ksj

An amusing comment. Think about it...

r34 racer

iTrader: (1)

Umm...no. Thats just taking it to extremes and it's making you sound foolish. If you want to have a decent argument then quit flaming and start making valid arguments. Otherwise you are just wasting all of our time. And frankly, in the real world, a metro cant pull on the vette if they were both racing. And if it did, yes, it would be faster in that race. It doesnt matter if the geo metro is slower ON AVERAGE. Chances are, you wont race the same car twice. Therefore, what matters is that it won, and shamed the z06 driver. So if you were to go out and burn a vette, would you tell all your friends that your car is a slow POS, or would you tell them you just dusted an vette? Magazine values are BEST times, not average times. How many reviews have you read where the writer specifically lists all his times? If you find one, i can guarantee that his average wont be near his max at all.


And next time you try to insult someone, please do try to be original. And it isnt hard to bang off good et's if you can shift and use a clutch.