geez zee

iTrader: (2)

Yep... Everybody eles' too!

aki

sorry to hear about the crash and I'm glad that you're okay and that you have insurance on the car. but I have to disagree with you on the OEM tires - I've had them for 34k miles (rears for the whole time, got fronts done at 21k miles) with no problems except when it was bitterly cold (mid 20 deg temps). driven in rain (up to 90+ mph in relatively heavy rain), VDC on and off, been from DE to ME in the car, no problems. sure it slips when I drive wrong or too fast for conditions - no tire will save you when you do that. and coming from 3 FWD cars (and two modded turbo RWD cars) I know that FWD cars are a lot more forgiving in most non-dry situations.

rain - there are a bazillion factors which can cause tires to break loose but hydroplaning can get you even when you're driving in a straight-ish line. tire pressure is key in preventing hydroplaning and balanced tire pressures are key in maintaining balance when the car is at edge. car speed is critical (over 50 mph is venturing into hydroplaning territory - it's almost impossible to hydroplane below that in a normal car). amount of standing water (depth). in corners, even without standing water, oil on the road can nail you hard (you ever ride a motorcycle or bicycle on an oily patch of road in the rain?). these are all things that can contribute to wet weather accidents. And I'm not even talking about pulling high G's in a turn, slamming on brakes, or accelerating really hard.

I'm not saying that you drive poorly in general or that you were reckless. Your description makes it sound like you were relatively cautious. But the what you describe is hydroplaning which means you drove, at that moment, too fast for your car and the conditions. I don't think you had much of a choice once that happens - hydroplaning is like driving on uneven smooth ice. No tire would have saved you at that point because one or more tires were not in contact with the pavement. The attitude of the car, momentum, and any inputs you gave it would determine where the car went and how it went there.

on the blown Dayton tires... wth. unless you went over 130 mph or the things are load rated for a gokart, they shouldnt have failed. good luck with that.

julian

that's why you practice driving technique... to override your instinct. in this case you should be countersteering and tipping in on the gas. unless the initial slide was caused by overpowering your rear tires, then you should be backing off on the gas.

DrVolkl

If you'd like to go to maxima.org you can read about how people felt about the potenza's in the 5th gen section. There's more than just a couple accidents where the car just suddenly lost control.

I've had the tires on both cars....I only had them on my Z for about 5k miles, with no problems, but I had them on my maxima for about 20k miles and they scared the living **** out of me one time, and that was all it took to replace em.

Mr_Q

iTrader: (1)

Expect the feds to mandate VDC systems on all new cars soon. Just like belts and bags. The systems really do help.

I too almost surely would have lost it during a real nasty rain storm here in SOCAL. I was crusing about 50mph on a subtle twisty road and I hit some washouts, almost instantly the car's rear end bolted out from underneath me and then I heard the magic whirring of VDC and it straightened the car right out.

I also now run BFG KDWs, those things plough through standing water, very nice, very safe.

Good to hear you're in one piece of course!

karmstro

not true, if his front went out, he would want no gas, and a little to moderate brake. This would get the cars weight up to the front wheels where they are lossing traction. Good thing my VDC can do this for me way quicker and better then I ever good. Sorry again man, it sucks lossing control!!!!

Vestas

Was this during the last rainstorm? Where the water was coming in walls, then dissappearing (I think it was the 6th, all evening). I drove through that, with Potenza's on. Hit several situations where the water came faster then I could react, felt the car start to hyrdo plane and maintained control.

Every tire, no matter how good in the rain, will hydro plan over a certain speed. It's physics, you can't channel enough water away once the water is deep enough, and at enough speed, you just skate over the top of it. As a general rule, with any standing water on the road, exceeding 45mph is a very bad idea (tm).

If you're driving through rough weather, like we had in the northeast on the 6th, you take your chances in the "dry" patches by speeding up. In a RWD sports car with any kind of summer tire on (Potenza's or otherwise) you're taking a chance.. you're gambling your reaction time against freak puddles, water collections or... worse.. someone else on the highway making a mistake.

I drove from NYC to D.C. that night and passed numerous spun out or wrecked SUVs and FWD cars. I'm sure several of those thought they were safe in their fancy SUV or "safe" FWD car. People seem to think "it's only rain" and therefor it's not dangerous driving conditions.

I'm sorry about your wreck, glad you're okay, but disagree with you blaming your tires. "Too fast for conditions" is probably the applicable term. Even if it was in fact your tires, when it comes to rain, there was and is a safe speed, regardless of tires, to be driving in the rain.

And 70mph is not that speed.

OrangeZYa

iTrader: (1)

You also drive a track model, which has VDC.

Fact: there are far too may instances of this kind of thing happening at reasonable speeds with the Potenzas. I am simply offering yet another warning (the same ones I'd ignored when I read them in the past, ironically).

I'd been driving for 8 years with 0 accidents before this, and in far worse conditions. The rain was steady, but not severe by any means. I'm by no means an expert at driving RWD (as evidenced by my reaction) but I wouldn't expect any tire to react so violently to such a minor puddle, and in a straight stretch, no less. When I get my Z back (or a new one--the insurance company is dragging its feet, predictably) those tires will be the first things to go.

MikeNT256

God, reading all these horror stories sorta scares me on the idea of buying a Z. I'm sure there are many critical parts to the story but it doesn't help that the Z is light, powerful and has somewhat of a short wheel base in my opinion which doesn't help too much for stability on high speeds.

Thats just my uneducated guess, don't take offense.

Quick question however, what is the size of the tires that are on the Enthusiast and Touring models? Enthusiast are 17's but what size are the tires? Same with the touring model, I know they're 18's but what size. I was considering keeping my Yokohama AVS E-100 (235/45/17) tires to put on my Z if I got an enthusiast, and if it's the same size as the stockers. I have NEVER had a problem with hydroplaning or heavy rain puddles on the freeway with my car (obviously its FWD, but still, no problems) and i've always feel completely safe.

JoneZZZ

iTrader: (1)

MikeNT256... what you should take away from this thread is the importance of driving within the limits of the road/weather conditions with the Z.....also, given the "Z" tight "HP/Front-Rear weight/torque" equation, it can be a handful when unbalanced.....when YOU purposely thow it out of balance.....its a blast..........when something out of your control throws an element(which one, you may not immediately recognize) out of balance......its handful.

n2az

Like several responses already to this post, Driving School/Practice/Techniques are needed to overcome instincts. I need driving school, but may never afford it. I will take this opportunity to share my recent experience and learning curve. I lost it in a Touring with VDC. The tail end kicked out and VDC didn't kick in. That is, in time.

Here's the deal. My rears were slick, my fronts are new (like many 350 Z-owners know all too much about). To my recent dis-belief, tire manufacturers recommend that you replace tires in two's (at least). That is, put the new tires on the rear and worn tires on the front. CAuse, git this... you have more control on the front, Holding the steering wheel and feeling the road. You can't compensate with the rears and you need them to stay put and follow. This is contrary to what I always believed and previously kept the best tires on the front. Comments anyone?

illZ

Not quite. Staying on the gas would have kept more weight on the rear wheels, but also would have cause it to keep coming out without proper steering technique.

You get a lot more weight transfer slamming on the brakes.

illZ

what was the size of the rear tire?

CelticPride2

My tire resaearch led to the same conclusion, and it makes sense...however, it can be kinda tough to do that on cars where the tire sizes are staggered (like the Z). Any suggestions on what to do in that situation?

n2az

Nissan maybe would have saved themselves alot of trouble, without sacrificing too much design benefit, if all tires (wheels) were the same. I am on my second car (lemon law) and about my seventh pair of tire replacements because of www.nissantireproblems.com I have two friends who are experimenting (not me) with swapping tires side-to-side and front-to-rear. Front-to-rear messes with his VDC. Also I'm afraid to reverse the roll... fear of catestrophic tire failure, separation, etc. IF the opportunity someday exists to put the same size wheels on the front as on the back (to allow rotation), I might consider that; but, basically, my opinion is that Nissan screwed us (i.e., is screwing us) on the tire issue and hope there will soon be a revelation as to "what is the best thing to do?!!!

Zmeflyby

This actually happened to me too, a long time ago. Except in my story, the road was kind of wet and somehow I just slipped. ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh. The potenzas teh suck! Get yourself some toyo's!

MikeNT256

Understandable! I guess that goes with learning your limits in a safe way with a school or an empty parking lot hehe.

So does no one have the size of the stock 17" tire size?

aki

there are a few people who've done this for track use. you can look online - I believe they used 275's all around, 18". also some individuals with 17", again for race use. You can do this if you don't have VDC.

staggered tires allows Nissan to do a couple things:
1. make the car look more aggressive. this is prob more important since Touring wheels are the same all around, just mounted with different tires.
2. design in some understeer (for safety's sake - else we'd all be reading about how "tail happy" and "unsafe" the Z is when you turn it).

btw I've had no probs since my alignment/tire replacement as far as feathering goes. not sure what makes my car different (2003 Touring, arrived at dealer in Mar 2003) but it's going well. I'm going to Avon's but that's just an economy thing for my stock wheels. will be experimenting with reducing oversteer later.

aki

I was in a car where (unbeknownst to me) the front tires were recently replaced and the rears, due to lack of wear, were not. it was a FWD so the owner thought that made sense. That was before I ended up (as a passenger) going backwards at 65 mph on a highway after the rears slipped a bit and spun the car around. nothing happened to me or the driver (the car bounced off a guardrail twice and hit a bridge) but it illustrates what happens when you have an oversteering car. If the front tires have better traction than the rear, you'll have an oversteering car.

By default, an oversteering car is much harder to deal with if it goes out of control. All normal production cars have some understeer built in. This means that if you go into a turn too hot, if you slow down, you might make it. Oversteer means a too-hot turn = spinning the car and hitting something backwards.

if you have a "normal" car with equal size tires and wheel offsets, it's best to put the new tires on the BACK, even if you have a FWD car. example: my Honda Civic. or my 1 ton van. or my Passat. or my Saab.

if you have a RWD car with a staggered setup then expect to buy 4 tires at a time.

if you have an AWD car with equal tire sizes/offsets but a viscous center differential, then you'll need to buy 4 tires at a time also. In the AWD case, it's not that your VDC will act up etc. It's that your center differential will overheat.