jackwhale

I've never been in a situation where I have seriously hydroplaned and totally lost control. I guess either the pools of water I've encountered haven't been long enough or deep enough. Also I would guess that by the time I had any reaction at all the car would be totally out of control, just like the ice I remember back in Michigan.
There have been many helpful points posted...anticipate difficulties and slow down when it rains, wide tires hydroplane more easily, road more slick when it starts raining, etc. But the suggestion about how letting off the gas at 70 will unweight the rear end and worsen the problem of hydroplaning doesn't seem very helpful. In theory it may make sense [slowing down does shift the weight forward] but at 70 mph in 6th gear the car is turning over approx 2500 rpm, and letting off the gas results in very little deceleration/unweighting of the rear. The car barely slows. If one was cruising along in 4th where the rpms are above 5500, then there is significant deceleration, and it might have the effect of over-rotating the rear end. I certainly agree that braking would have a pronounced negative effect.
I doubt that any of us could train themselves to not let off the gas when just casually driving along the highway and suddenly hydroplaning...Maybe TC Kline or a driver of his caliber...but the rest of us are left with anticipating emergencies. When it rains or is icy we have to do something (like slow down) before the problem occurs.

OrangeZYa sounds as if his tire blew--(didn't read whether the front or the rear)...rain just complicated the situation.

Not meaning to sound haughty--I'm interested in feedback.

HyperSprite

iTrader: (6)

[QUOTE=kewlii]
If my back end is losing control, and my front is head toward the freeway cement divider; my instinct is let go of the gas.
QUOTE]

This is because people were designed to walk and run at speeds of 3 to 10 mph. Stopping works.

At 70 mph instinct is flat out wrong most of the time.

Everyone here is talking as if hydroplaning is a simple "suddenly all four wheels are off the ground" and that is rarely the case. In the real world different tires have different amounts of traction during this type of event. You may only have two left wheels with no traction or maybe the front tires are hydroplaning but disturbing the water enough to keep the backs on the ground (although probably not in this case). You may be gaining and loosing traction multiple times in succession as you travel over a wavy road surface.

Also remember the Z has nearly equal front to rear weight distribution and comes with summer tires. This is not a combination for stable wet weather performance.

Your best bet is to do is not make any sudden moves.

Chris

jackwhale

Thanks Hypersprite: and my perhaps simple minded comment was that letting off the gas at that speed does not result in a 'sudden move'.

slaponte

iTrader: (2)

Besides all the extra arguments, I also hold the opinion that these tires are WORST on rain conditions than other similar tires (price, performance). Almost any amount of rain make my car loose, the rear end starts to wiggle around the lane to where I have to reduce as low as 40 to 45mph to stay in control. In particular, the tire wears fast and the next time you hit some rain you might be driving almost slicks and not even realize it.

We can make excuses for anything. "Well, you should slow down" or maybe a mosquito pissed on the road and that made it extra slick. The fact is that, after over 30+ cars in my life and multiply that times diff tires, these are by far the most unsecure I have felt on a car in the rain. To the point that I many times WILL NOT DRIVE THE Z if rain is on the forecast.

On a maybe related question : one of the times I went to have my tires changed the guys stated that the thread seemed to run backwards, in relation to the arrow on the sidewall. They would have expected to mount it with the thread facing forward. If you notice the thread design, it seem to drive water towards the middle of the tire, instead of the edge. Thus water collects on the middle and lifts the car. Anybody noticed this?

bixby

iTrader: (2)

It's a "summer" tire and although it does just okay in wet conditions I tend to slow way down in the rain. Usually 60 or below. Try the new RE050A's. They are still a summer tire but are much higher rated for wet conditions.

jackwhale

Sorry I forgot that this thread was a Potenza thread...The comments about hydroplaning just caught my attention. I started wondering what I should think about if the car suddenly went out of control through hydroplaning, oil, ice, mosquito ****, etc. (You must have really big mosquitoes in Fla)

If I couldn't drive in the rain, I wouldn't be able to drive in Northern California from November to May. Its even raining this weekend. What tires do you prefer Slaponte?

I just bought a new set of Potenza SO-3's but I don't have any particular attachment to Bridgestone. Looked at Michelin Pilots and Pirelli P-zero. decided to stay with the SO-3s on the basis of cost and fairly good experience with SO-3's on the 350Z and a couple of 510's.

Bixby: Have you thought of going to the Shasta Datsun gathering next month? Lots of autocross in the parking lot at the ski lodge. Friendly bunch and good food.

Boosted521

i had almost the exact same thing happen to me last weekend. i bought the car just 3 days prior. i was on my way home with the cc set at 65. i usually drive a little faster, even when it is raining, since i'm used to the bfg kdw's on my prelude which take to wet conditions really well, but the z felt much different and i wasn't sure how well these tires took to wet roads. i drove ~ 50 miles with no problems. all of a sudden the back end slid out and i was sliding sideways down the highway. i turned into the slide but there was no hope. i slid into the median of the highway for about 100 yards or so. my right rear tire clipped a sewer type hole in the grassy median and the car spun around twice and i ended up coming to a stop facing the road i had just come off of. not much damage to the car besides a small crack in the bottom of the front bumper, mud flaps were torn off, exhaust slightly bent, and my right rear tire developed a slow leak and is now flat. had the median not been so wide and v-shaped i would definately have gone into the oncoming lane and no telling what would have happened then. after getting back home (a truck stopped and pulled me out.. and i drove 40mph the rest of the way back) i took the car to spray all of the mud off and noticed that the rear tires were worn, but not to the point that they should have hydroplaned like they did. needless to say, i'm not buying these tires again. toyo t1s' are on the way along with my volks.

Forrest80

This stuff scares the crap out of me, its raining now and i have feared this.
I slow down to 60-65 in the rain and if it was really heavy i think id go 50.

Im waiting for my tires to reach about 30k miles then i will slap on some Michelin Pilot Sport A/S (any objectin to those?)

I am use to driveing FWD all my life, RWD feels so different specialy in corners, some corners have bumps and you can feel the back end lift a little if the bump is in the right place as you go around the corner, i dont really know what to do i just end up hopeing it grabs and i keep the gas the same.

Im actualy wondering what wheels to upgrade to, to give me better traction? i assume something wider in the front other than 225 and something wider than 235 will give me better traction and not mess with the dynamics of the car or void warrentys. But i dont really know how all of this works yet.

jackwhale

This certainly does grab my attention also.

I have never felt worried about driving my 350 in the rain. There are times when the traction control has lit up [SLIP SLIP] but only when doing things I shouldn't do...generally accelerating too early out of a corner.

Nice pictures Boosted.

MulhollandDrive

A bump may unweight the car and you may lose traction. On a really big bump I sometimes turn away from the curve, knowing darn well I am going go wide under power. Sooooo the answer is if your back end starts to come out, steer into the drift. If you lift off the gas the nose will tuck in and this could make things worse. Obviously, once you lose control, you are going to get off the gas.

Shift4Speed

Ha Orange i had the same promble. i was just leaving from work about seven o clock and it was raning. i was driving through some S-Courves and lost control of the car is gon. not its going to take a month to repair. So mabe those tire are only for dry weather. i had stock tire to. the only injury i had was a stif neck.
The day before the accident i just had ordered a Cold Air Intake for it.
Im so missing my Z baby.

Boosted521

same here. for the last few years i've been driving fwd hondas. my first truck was a 91 rwd ranger, so i'm not a rwd newb, but am having to get used to rwd again.

also, my incindent happened at 22k miles... and i'm assuming stock tires are still on the car and havent been replaced. if they are worn go ahead and replace them. i wouldn't wait til 30k.

thanks. should have new pics sometime next week after my volks and teins come in.

The Mike

Hmmm, kinda bugs me hearing that story. My car always feels like its glued to the road even with a totally poured over road surface.... 80mph, no problem. Only prob is people driving 30 :P .. But then there's Ludacris song to set the mood... I'm sure you know it... "Move B**** GET out THE WAY .." lol. Anyways. I'm just surprised that you car would do that w/o you jerking your steering wheel or something. The treads on the stock potenzas seem like pretty good water treads to me.. they are directional and channel water from the center out to the side of the tires. If you rotated them I'd think you have a serious problem channeling water back into the center of your tire. Anyways, thats my 2 cents.

Boosted521

hydroplaning has nothing to do with jerking your steering wheel. all of a sudden your back end just slides out, simple as that. there's nothing you can do. it all comes down to the tire you're running and how worn it is.

The Mike

Perhaps it was road crown then... If he did hydroplane the front end would more likely keep grounded due to weight distrobution of the car *far from 50/50* while the back end floats up and either by chance of wind gust or road crown.... pushes/pulls the car's backend to the right. Since we drive on the right side of the road... road crown is always going to be pulling our cars to the right... and under cerntain conditions like a slick road, very crowned road, or strong wind gusts in combination of a slick road.... It could be 1 or all those factors.

As far as wind gusts go... I once had a complete lane change on a completely dry road with a heavy *** 93 cougar. The wind gust pushed my car over in an instant from the left lane to the right lane and it was a completely dry surface... the only contributing factor was that i was doing about 105mph at the time. Startled me enough to slow me down that day!

Well those are just some ideas... I'm only coming up with alternatives instead of a rather hazy unexplainable condition that i havn't experienced in my Z.

HyperSprite

iTrader: (6)

Our cars are very close to 50/50

MulhollandDrive

Then you have not hydroplaned. On a flooded road in LA you _can_ hydroplane. Just too much water and wide tires and you lose directional stability. Even on Sunset Blvd. In Portland you have a different type of hydroplaining due to ruts worn into the road by studded tires. Water fills the ruts. Once you have hydroplaned or hit black ice you realize how little control you have in some situations. I tend to believe that performance tires with a V pattern are better in the rain, but I could be wrong. So wide tires do have drawbacks, in severe rain, roads with poor drainage and in snow. In both conditions, there is less lbs/square inch and it is harder to reach the solid surface below the rain/snow. Wide tires are better on a dry surface or in sand, where you do not want to sink.

itburns

Same thing happened to me in the Bay Area, 280 North, Saturday morning, light rain and 80 MPH. Lost the rear end in a slight leftward curve, #4 lane, in a large puddle. However, due to lack of Saturday morning traffic, I nearly pulled it out w/o a scratch except I nudged a minivan. This dented my right front bumper, but it was still driveable. Up to that point, 12,000 miles on the ODO, I felt supremely confident with my P Zeros (275/35/18 rears), wet or dry. This rubber sticks like you would not believe. What I did not know was that the rear tires also wear out way faster than the front, especially the way I'd been driving. They were quite smooth!

I never drove that fast in the rain either, and I never will again! Take it easy...

itburns

In my experience in high speed hydroplaning, instincts told me to let off the gas, but reflexes told me to brake. I almost regained control before having a minor collision with another vehicle; if I downshifted and accelerated harder, I believe I would have regained control much more quickly. You have to show the road who's the boss.

OrangeZYa

iTrader: (1)

+1