I am not here to flame, nice to see a reply by a fellow enthusiast and engineer.

Being an engineer I can agree that simplicity and elegance is desirable. But the excuse of cutting costs at the expense innovation and advancement is where I would disagree. Its not terribly expensive to add two more valves per cylinder to breath better, japanese and europeans have done that for a long time without a major hit to cost. Push rods are making the engine inefficient and noisy, so that should be taken out of the equation.

Now variable valve timing increases cost a little, but since you are already engineering or perfecting cam profile, why not go one step further and use variable timing and lift. But this increase in cost over time will pay off because of innovative attitude will sell cars.

Now my perspective on this is just because people are willing to buy these technologies, GM doesnt want to change. But recently things are changing and GM is feeling the heat. GM didnt stay on top of innovation like it should have, it has lagged behind, so its going to lose its share of the pie.

Talking about weight of the LS7 engine, if that is light, why not make it lighter by using smaller displacement to produce the same power. Now that is the right direction to go. Increasing the displacement indefinitely is a brute way to increase power not refined or well engineered way of increasing power.

Push rod design has existed for a long time with GM and GM had time to innovate or advance for better technologies like their counterparts, who happen to use the complexity of todays machines and still be highest on reliability charts, but GM didnt invest in that innovation because public just buy that without demanding more.

Just imagine if the same philosophy existed in the pharma or semiconductor industry. No innovation just repackaging will kill them. Of course I am oversimplifying, but that is just to get the idea across.

Now 350Z could achieve the engine advancement and still keep costs down, Vette could also follow. Vette historically has sold in far more numbers than the Z, it should use the advantage to innovate.

I have great respect for Vette, has good power and superb handling. Looks great too.

 

Better gas mileage is because of gear ratio, aero drag of new Z06 is 0.31 while the Z is 0.29 at its best.

 

I don't disagree that it would be great if they could greatly improve the power by making the engine more efficient. If they could put out a 700hp car at that price point without any trade offs, well, I'd buy one!

And don't forget the ZR-1, which was a DOHC engine, but was outrageously expensive.

Going with a smaller displacement does not necessarily make it lighter in actual weight! DOHC, variable valve timing, etc add weight. The LSx engines are lighter than many smaller displacement 'modern' engines. Heck, the RX7-LS1 swap is popular because the LS1 only weighs a little more than the RX7's 1.3L and it's turbos.

But this is GM we are talking about, so price is the number one factor. If they can meet their goals (XXXhp) for the cheapest possible price, they are happy. And the Vette engineers, as well as customers, think the big displacement feel is part of what makes a vette a vette.

I agree with what you say about innovation, and GM is dying because of the lack of it i'd say. But I wouldn't break what isn't broken! Remember, they were putting these same engines in $20,000 camaros too. I don't think BMW could put their 500hp V10 high tech wonder into a vette and have it fit nor make a profit on the car.

The LS7 does have some innovation, like titanium intake valves and connecting rods, which I think are firsts for a production engine.

I just don't see it pushrods as being necessarily better worse. It's mostly a trade off. If they can get big performance out of a compact engine with good fuel economy and a good price, I don't care if they have gerbils running on treadmills in there.

 

I can tell you most Vette owners would be OUTRAGED if they could not yield an additional 50 hp with headers intake and exhaust. They would much rather have a gigantic engine with tunability, versus a smaller high hp/liter car.

These are domestic car owners we're talking about here. They are basically the only ones doing it this way.

The Z06 is basically their dream come true. I think they should enjoy it, it's nothing short of brilliant. It has redefined what is possible for under 100,000.

From what I've read and sound clips I've heard this engine sounds amazing. It also can rev now. Sort of the best of both worlds, which I think the Z also embodies. Low end power with high RPM pull. Trying to strike a balance between the two.



All of that being said, I refuse to really defend GM. American innovation has always led the way, but our cars have been pathetic for so long.

GM should be building the best cars in the world, not the low rent examples they produce now.

All of their decision making is wrong, and they are in a constant state of denial.

 

You are impressed for the wrong reason.

If the Corvette did not have an all-fiberglass body, then your 3,100-lb C6-Z06 would weigh in at 3,350 lbs or thereabouts. Conversely, if the Z was all-fiberglass, it would weigh in around 2,950 lbs. The C5 is a heck of a lot heavier than a Z06. So taking this into consideration, if the bodies were of equal material, the Z would outperform a C5 on any track.

 

I can only agree that Z06 is a great sports car for the money in almost every category except the lousy interior design.

GM needs to change to survive in future.

 

It's not that great a car for $100,000. I know what the MSRP is, but you can't get one without a crazy dealer markup that puts it in the GT3 range. And for that money, I'd get the GT3!

 

Get the Z, if it is your daily car. The Vette will be harsh on you, if you drive it everday, it will wear on you. I like the Z a lot because you can drive slow, if you want to, and when you want to drive fast, it can do the job. I like the Z's interior much better than the Vette, and I have to agree on someone who said the Vette has the crappiest sports leather seats. It looks like the leather was made 50 years ago. I give a notch more for the shifter on the Z, the Vette's 1st to 2nd is like going from stop to reverse on the Z. For straight performance, the Vette many times over the Z. It begs to be reved up and at idle, you feel the LS2 sitting underneath the car. Respectability, very few gets in front of the Vette, as the Z, you get more than a few more un-mannered drivers. Buying a used Vette can save you money, some Vettes eat a lot of depreciation that you can buy one with very low miles. Whoever pays $75K for a C6 Z06, burning money is not a problem for them. In the end, the Z is more practical and more reliable in the long run, finding engine parts will be easy knowing that this is Infiniti/Nissan's #1 engine. Do what makes you happy, but this is how I feel about it... Z (05 Enthusiast w/4.8K)>its bedmate Vette (03 50th Anniversary Z06 w/7K).


PS: M3 driver, what are you thinking?

 

Bloodwings: That's a heck of a garage you have there. You must have a tough decision every morning before work...

itburns: You are wrong about the fiberglass body saving that much weight, and the weights you list are just plain made up. The additional structure needed for the plastic body cancels out the weight savings of the panels themselves.

And your "what ifs" are nonsense. Yes, what if one car was way lighter than the other? so what?

 

I agree on that, plus the vette not only uses fiberglass as a light material theres alot of aluminum, and on the new Zo6 carbon fiber and titaniun, materials found only on the exotics.
for the guys that think that a pushrod is outdated, just look at the number that they are putting froma 5.7 litters 350 or 405 horses and tons of torque, there are much simplier to maintain, fix, or modify.

 

I would say the Z. No real reason except I like em!

 

I would say keep the Z and throw a turbo on it...

 

Am I supposed to take this question seriously, Silicon Hills?

 

whoops, my statement didn't really make sense after I read it. What I meant was, if you start saynig "what if you do this, what if you do that" you really aren't talking these cars anymore, you are talking about some hypothetical cars.

If Nissan could "simply" give the Z plastic body panels and get the weight under 3000lbs, I wish they would! The listed weight of the 2006 Touring is 3400lbs, which is getting pretty porky for a 2 seater.

Sillicon Hills... ah, those were the good ol days.