Evo or 350Z
02-22-2006, 12:54 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by Wired 24/7
"Pleasure of driving" ?? Give me a break. You take off from a stoplight, feel like you're driving a civic. Then all of a sudden at 3k rpm, 280 horses kick you in the *** and you're flying. That is the Evo. That is not "pleasure of driving", but it is "High Performance".
Jason
02-22-2006, 03:29 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by Wired 24/7
The stock Z brakes bite very hard for street driving (on/off behavior) but they can be made more linear by changing the pads. I've now gone through hawk HPS on OEM rotors and I'm currently on axxis ultimates with the stoptech rotors / SS lines. I can tell you that the brakes are very linear NOW. Pads have more to do with braking feel than anything. So if you like the OEM Evo brakes better, that's great. But if you change them out, it may not feel the same.
The Z... flat torque band from 2k rpm to redline. This gives you better throttle response due to its torquey nature and makes it much more fun as a daily driver. I would not want to worry about keeping the RPMs up to make driving pleasurable on city streets. I do not want to have to rev to 3k and dump the clutch to get a good start. With the Z I do not have to... with 285 tires out back I can still get great acceleration off the line with low RPM, and that is what makes the Z a great daily driver. Always having torque of a V6 at your disposal is a nice thing to have. The evo throttle is jumpy and touchy. But it is still amazingly fast and it does kick some ***.
The Z... flat torque band from 2k rpm to redline. This gives you better throttle response due to its torquey nature and makes it much more fun as a daily driver. I would not want to worry about keeping the RPMs up to make driving pleasurable on city streets. I do not want to have to rev to 3k and dump the clutch to get a good start. With the Z I do not have to... with 285 tires out back I can still get great acceleration off the line with low RPM, and that is what makes the Z a great daily driver. Always having torque of a V6 at your disposal is a nice thing to have. The evo throttle is jumpy and touchy. But it is still amazingly fast and it does kick some ***.
The braking prowess of the Evo is beyond exceptional. It set a new record from 60 mph, stopping in 108 ft. The Subaru, which uses a similar brake system — Brembo calipers on vented discs at both front and rear — also performed admirably, needing only 111 ft. to stop from 60 mph. (Our former champ was the Ferrari 360 Modena at 110 ft.)
taken from
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....ber=6&preview=
and 350z from
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/ro...0405scc_nismo/
60-0 stopping distance: 112 ft.
this shows a 4 ft difference in 60-0. thats not too shabby. i wouldnt say the evo blows it away. but that is arguably a little better.
02-22-2006, 04:03 AM
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This can go on forever.
What is really comes down to is do you want to drive a glorified lancer, because that is what it is. It is fast and does perform well. It does respond to mods, but also has a weak front diff. and clutch. Mitsubishi service is horrible. I spend a lot of time on evolutionm.net and listened to horror story after horror story about people with blown tranny's and clutches that were denied warranty after a few thousand miles of normal driving.
This car will get the attention of every ricer kid on the streets (trust me I owned one and I know). Every light you pull up to next to a civic with a fart can your going to get harassed.
or
There is the Z, which is a two door rwd sports car not a rally sedan. It has comparable breaks, hp, etc. Doesn't respond to mods like a turbo car, but with some simple bolt-ons can improve it's quickness.
You wont get harassed every stop light by some rice rocket.
The styling, feel, and over all feedback of the car is far more pleasurable.
The best way for me to describe the difference that I found between the two cars: The Evo was very fast and powerful, but it felt like you were juicing every once out of that engine everytime you drove it. Where as the Z feels effortless with the V6 and low end torque. Just feels like a more refined ride.
Definately drive both and you will be able to make your decision. After owning my Evo for a little over a year and then test driving a Z. My decision was made.
What is really comes down to is do you want to drive a glorified lancer, because that is what it is. It is fast and does perform well. It does respond to mods, but also has a weak front diff. and clutch. Mitsubishi service is horrible. I spend a lot of time on evolutionm.net and listened to horror story after horror story about people with blown tranny's and clutches that were denied warranty after a few thousand miles of normal driving.
This car will get the attention of every ricer kid on the streets (trust me I owned one and I know). Every light you pull up to next to a civic with a fart can your going to get harassed.
or
There is the Z, which is a two door rwd sports car not a rally sedan. It has comparable breaks, hp, etc. Doesn't respond to mods like a turbo car, but with some simple bolt-ons can improve it's quickness.
You wont get harassed every stop light by some rice rocket.
The styling, feel, and over all feedback of the car is far more pleasurable.
The best way for me to describe the difference that I found between the two cars: The Evo was very fast and powerful, but it felt like you were juicing every once out of that engine everytime you drove it. Where as the Z feels effortless with the V6 and low end torque. Just feels like a more refined ride.
Definately drive both and you will be able to make your decision. After owning my Evo for a little over a year and then test driving a Z. My decision was made.
Last edited by 350Z007; 02-22-2006 at 04:37 AM.
02-22-2006, 06:46 AM
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Unrefined. They put more attention to power and weight reduction than anything else.
The Evo has great handling, but the feedback is still on the order of the lancer or civic.
I'm not sure what a good set of coilovers / sways can do for the Evo, but I'm sure it would help tremendously. The Z's rigidity and stock suspension gives much better feedback than the Evo, hands down.
Prove that the Evo brakes are "Better." Have numbers? Didn't think so.
The stock Z brakes bite very hard for street driving (on/off behavior) but they can be made more linear by changing the pads. I've now gone through hawk HPS on OEM rotors and I'm currently on axxis ultimates with the stoptech rotors / SS lines. I can tell you that the brakes are very linear NOW. Pads have more to do with braking feel than anything. So if you like the OEM Evo brakes better, that's great. But if you change them out, it may not feel the same.
"Pleasure of driving" ?? Give me a break. You take off from a stoplight, feel like you're driving a civic. Then all of a sudden at 3k rpm, 280 horses kick you in the *** and you're flying. That is the Evo. That is not "pleasure of driving", but it is "High Performance".
The Z... flat torque band from 2k rpm to redline. This gives you better throttle response due to its torquey nature and makes it much more fun as a daily driver. I would not want to worry about keeping the RPMs up to make driving pleasurable on city streets. I do not want to have to rev to 3k and dump the clutch to get a good start. With the Z I do not have to... with 285 tires out back I can still get great acceleration off the line with low RPM, and that is what makes the Z a great daily driver. Always having torque of a V6 at your disposal is a nice thing to have. The evo throttle is jumpy and touchy. But it is still amazingly fast and it does kick some ***.
If you don't know what I'm talking about when I say "unrefined" then let's put it this way:
The Evo is a $35k porsche killer. But the porsche is more refined.
Same with the Z. The Z is simply more refined, although the evo can easily outperform it in most circumstances. The evo is made for rally, whereas Z is RWD and made for the track. In fact, having RWD on the track is often an advantage over AWD.
The Evo is a $35k porsche killer. But the porsche is more refined.
Same with the Z. The Z is simply more refined, although the evo can easily outperform it in most circumstances. The evo is made for rally, whereas Z is RWD and made for the track. In fact, having RWD on the track is often an advantage over AWD.
The Z is very much overbuilt in many areas. Amazing chassis, drivetrain, engine, differential. The Z's clutch is pretty amazing as long as you stay N/A. Even the wheel wells are huge to accomodate much wider tires than an Evo. The Evo has an amazing engine, but that's about it. Their blocks are doing some amazing things that the Z can't touch. But nevertheless, the Z was not built for F/I. If it was built for F/I, it would have stronger internals etc., and would be able to pretty much kick the Evo's *** in every department.
Hope this helps. You are obviously an Evo fanboi, whereas I am a Z fanboy. Please accept my opinion as respecfully biased toward the Z, but not unaware of the Evo's amazing-ness.
I also notice how you didn't say a thing about how the EVO is much more practical. 4 door, 4 seat, w/trunk, and AWD makes it pretty versatile.
02-22-2006, 06:54 AM
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This can go on forever.
What is really comes down to is do you want to drive a glorified lancer, because that is what it is. It is fast and does perform well. It does respond to mods, but also has a weak front diff. and clutch. Mitsubishi service is horrible. I spend a lot of time on evolutionm.net and listened to horror story after horror story about people with blown tranny's and clutches that were denied warranty after a few thousand miles of normal driving.
This car will get the attention of every ricer kid on the streets (trust me I owned one and I know). Every light you pull up to next to a civic with a fart can your going to get harassed.
What is really comes down to is do you want to drive a glorified lancer, because that is what it is. It is fast and does perform well. It does respond to mods, but also has a weak front diff. and clutch. Mitsubishi service is horrible. I spend a lot of time on evolutionm.net and listened to horror story after horror story about people with blown tranny's and clutches that were denied warranty after a few thousand miles of normal driving.
This car will get the attention of every ricer kid on the streets (trust me I owned one and I know). Every light you pull up to next to a civic with a fart can your going to get harassed.
or
There is the Z, which is a two door rwd sports car not a rally sedan. It has comparable breaks, hp, etc. Doesn't respond to mods like a turbo car, but with some simple bolt-ons can improve it's quickness.
You wont get harassed every stop light by some rice rocket.
There is the Z, which is a two door rwd sports car not a rally sedan. It has comparable breaks, hp, etc. Doesn't respond to mods like a turbo car, but with some simple bolt-ons can improve it's quickness.
You wont get harassed every stop light by some rice rocket.
The styling, feel, and over all feedback of the car is far more pleasurable.
The best way for me to describe the difference that I found between the two cars: The Evo was very fast and powerful, but it felt like you were juicing every once out of that engine everytime you drove it. Where as the Z feels effortless with the V6 and low end torque. Just feels like a more refined ride.
Definately drive both and you will be able to make your decision. After owning my Evo for a little over a year and then test driving a Z. My decision was made.
Definately drive both and you will be able to make your decision. After owning my Evo for a little over a year and then test driving a Z. My decision was made.
02-22-2006, 07:07 AM
#47
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Originally Posted by Hypnoz
Simple bolt-ons on an EVO over a Z is a very significant difference. The evo can get over 350whp with "bolt-ons".
Originally Posted by Hypnoz
I'm glad you can justify your purchase mainly based off of not "getting harassed" from local civics. Congrats.
Originally Posted by Hypnoz
I tire of proving why you are wrong on this, but nonetheless, I will reiterate. The EVO has quicker, better steering, better brake feel (NOT on/off crap like the Z), almost neutral handling.
Originally Posted by Hypnoz
The engine isn't even close to max stock, nor does it feel like it. The stock Z feels weak compared to EVO's.
I owned an Evo so you don't have to keep telling me how great the handling is and braking. I drove one every day for over a year. I have 4 other friends who also own Evo's which I drive. Do you own one?
I also tracked the car several times. So get off your soap box. Go buy an Evo if you think they are so superior in every way.
I like the Evo, obviously I bought and owned one. I'm not saying that I didn't. It was a great car. It had a lot of power and responds well to mods. All I'm saying is for me the Z is a better all around car as a daily driver. The z has the rwd 2 seater feel that you want in a sports car vs. the 4 door rally sedan. If I could have kept the evo as a track car I would have.
Last edited by 350Z007; 02-22-2006 at 07:28 AM.
02-22-2006, 07:23 AM
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since there is actually a 350z with way over 1000 hp in li, ny does that mean the 350z actually win and the evo's should come back in about 10 years? also this car is in the 6's.
Originally Posted by Hypnoz
You in lala-land. There are EVO's in the 8's and EVO's with 900whp on down. Maybe in 10 years the Z will better the EVO, but for now, the EVO wins.
02-22-2006, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bhk1004
since there is actually a 350z with way over 1000 hp in li, ny does that mean the 350z actually win and the evo's should come back in about 10 years? also this car is in the 6's.
The difference being the EVO w/ 8, or 900hp can be driven daily.
02-22-2006, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Hypnoz
And there is an SRT-4 with 1200whp, will i say the SRT-4 has more potential than the VQ? NO.
The difference being the EVO w/ 8, or 900hp can be driven daily.
The difference being the EVO w/ 8, or 900hp can be driven daily.
02-22-2006, 08:28 AM
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I know this. I owned a modified Evo. I'm not comparing the response of mods by the two cars. All I'm saying is that you can mod the Z and make it quicker and a little more agressive.
I think also you are getting me mixed up with Wired 24/7.
I'm not saying the engine is maxed out just that it feels that way. After driving the car daily that is my opinion.
I owned an Evo so you don't have to keep telling me how great the handling is and braking. I drove one every day for over a year. I have 4 other friends who also own Evo's which I drive. Do you own one?
I also tracked the car several times. So get off your soap box. Go buy an Evo if you think they are so superior in every way.
I like the Evo, obviously I bought and owned one. I'm not saying that I didn't. It was a great car. It had a lot of power and responds well to mods. All I'm saying is for me the Z is a better all around car as a daily driver. The z has the rwd 2 seater feel that you want in a sports car vs. the 4 door rally sedan. If I could have kept the evo as a track car I would have.
I really like both cars, and I'm not on any soapbox. I'm simply correcting factual errors and misconceptions about a competing car.
02-22-2006, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by bhk1004
i dont know why ur saying the 350z cant be daily driven, and where the hell did the srt4 come from? are u a fan boy of every single teen wet dream car? i mean the only evo i really know of that is around that has 900 hp is in florida and of course you can daily drive any car there... there isnt any inspection. I used to live in miami and its like a tuners wet dream. engine potential is about the same... and once u pass the 400hp mark the price you pay to to get the extra hp is around the same... the only reason that you get the better $ for mod in the beginning is because of the fact that you guys have factory turbos. you can say evo handles better blah blah blah awd wutever, but honestly after driving my friends evo, i much prefer the feel of rwd... but thats just me. i just dont like people saying EVO IS GOD. its all personal taste.
02-22-2006, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Hypnoz
Your reading comprehension and critical thinking skills are lacking. The point was that naming some drag car's horsepower to prove the engine has more potential is not a valid arguement. The 350Z is a teen wet dream car too, I think you know that. I like cars in general, especially performance cars. If it so happens that some teens dream about them, well that is not my problem. Your 400hp, price per hp the same arguement is not true. Upgrading turbo's on the EVO is much less expensive overall than it would be for the Z (with all the additional stuff and labor needed).
02-22-2006, 08:59 AM
#56
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Originally Posted by bhk1004
from what ive heard after the 400-450 whp mark the evo needs internals changed out. just curious if thats true.
.
02-22-2006, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by bhk1004
from what ive heard after the 400-450 whp mark the evo needs internals changed out. just curious if thats true. also u need to stop this whole evo is better buisness cause now that we know u dont even own the car, id rather if u just stfu and get the f off this thread. now u are just a random troll running around saying 350z's suck on this forum in my eyes.
02-22-2006, 09:08 AM
#58
Hypnoz, you aren't that great at actually reading what people write.
You mostly only read the negatives and respond to them. I'm not attacking the Evo, doofus!
In every one of my posts I talk about how great the Evo is.
Then I subjectively tell my opinion of the Z. "BETTER FEEDBACK" Is a subjective opinion. So stop telling me that this is "simply not true."
Oh yeah, get off your high horse! I mentioned multiple times how the Evo can outperform the Z, yet you seem to have to jump in and "defend" against my attacks nonetheless! Get over it man!
More proof you misread my posts: I never owned an Evo. You assumed I did. I have spent a lot of time driving an evo around and being a passenger as well. I test drove a lancer before and my girlfriend drives a civic, so I drive a civic almost daily when she's around.
OF course the Evo is more practical. The Z is a sports car, the Evo is a rally sedan. What would you expect?
Yes, I'm talking about everyday normal launch. Of course the Evo can win a drag race. When you are daily driving, you want to launch at a very low RPM so you're not being hard on the clutch/tranny. With the Evo, you get "lancer-mode" at first then you get kicked in the ***. This turbo lag makes for a jerky daily driving experience. With the Z you get a nice flat torque band. MUCH BETTER EXPERIENCE FOR DAILY DRIVING, especially in traffic. If you dispute this, you are either saying that "turbo lag = Driving pleasure" or you just keep the rpms over 3k all the time, in which case you're not really taking it easy on the clutch or tranny...
You mostly only read the negatives and respond to them. I'm not attacking the Evo, doofus!
In every one of my posts I talk about how great the Evo is.
Then I subjectively tell my opinion of the Z. "BETTER FEEDBACK" Is a subjective opinion. So stop telling me that this is "simply not true."
Oh yeah, get off your high horse! I mentioned multiple times how the Evo can outperform the Z, yet you seem to have to jump in and "defend" against my attacks nonetheless! Get over it man!
More proof you misread my posts: I never owned an Evo. You assumed I did. I have spent a lot of time driving an evo around and being a passenger as well. I test drove a lancer before and my girlfriend drives a civic, so I drive a civic almost daily when she's around.
OF course the Evo is more practical. The Z is a sports car, the Evo is a rally sedan. What would you expect?
Originally Posted by PhreeZee
I hope your are talking about everyday normal driving. And not a launch... EVO will take the Z from a stop... And getting up to 3K RPM is pretty short in almost any car.
Jason
Jason
Last edited by Wired 24/7; 02-22-2006 at 09:18 AM.
02-22-2006, 09:25 AM
#59
Hypnoz- Examples you seemed to ignore of my praises for the Evo:
Yet you read only the negatives. I gave a very fair but biased opinion, whereas you just defend the negatives and whine, whine, whine.
You know the #1 reason the Evo outperforms the Z in almost every department? It is because the Z was designed around keeping it affordable. A $30k sports car that the masses could afford. Guess what, the 350Z was Nissan's best move ever and their current vehicle lineup got them WAY ahead in the automobile market. If the factory had an additional $10k invested, we would've had factory Twin Turbos like the 300ZX. But they did not intend to put out a $40k car, no, they intended to put out a $30k car.
P.S. Have you driven a Porsche 911? FYI, the feel is very similar to the Z. I think you still confuse handling and feedback / road feel. Rally cars have a massively different feel than sports cars. I honestly can't see the distinction in your posts that reflects this. You seem to think Evo = Great handling = much traction = better feedback. IMO this is not the case. But if you think the Evo feels like driving a porsche, that's great for you.
More importantly: Hypnoz, what *do* you drive? Sorry if it's been posted, I am tired of sifting through this thead.
I'm not saying the Z has better traction than the evo in the corners
The Evo has great handling
But it is still amazingly fast and it does kick some ***.
The Evo is a $35k porsche killer.
The Evo has an amazing engine
Their blocks are doing some amazing things that the Z can't touch.
Yet you read only the negatives. I gave a very fair but biased opinion, whereas you just defend the negatives and whine, whine, whine.
You know the #1 reason the Evo outperforms the Z in almost every department? It is because the Z was designed around keeping it affordable. A $30k sports car that the masses could afford. Guess what, the 350Z was Nissan's best move ever and their current vehicle lineup got them WAY ahead in the automobile market. If the factory had an additional $10k invested, we would've had factory Twin Turbos like the 300ZX. But they did not intend to put out a $40k car, no, they intended to put out a $30k car.
P.S. Have you driven a Porsche 911? FYI, the feel is very similar to the Z. I think you still confuse handling and feedback / road feel. Rally cars have a massively different feel than sports cars. I honestly can't see the distinction in your posts that reflects this. You seem to think Evo = Great handling = much traction = better feedback. IMO this is not the case. But if you think the Evo feels like driving a porsche, that's great for you.
More importantly: Hypnoz, what *do* you drive? Sorry if it's been posted, I am tired of sifting through this thead.
Last edited by Wired 24/7; 02-22-2006 at 09:34 AM.
02-22-2006, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by bhk1004
from what ive heard after the 400-450 whp mark the evo needs internals changed out. just curious if thats true. also u need to stop this whole evo is better buisness cause now that we know u dont even own the car, id rather if u just stfu and get the f off this thread. now u are just a random troll running around saying 350z's suck on this forum in my eyes.
I'm sure you would like me to 'just stfu andget the f off this thread', so that you can voice more of your bs and mislead people into thinking false things.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I am a fan of the Z. It's not my problem if you can't accept the fact that there are better performing, funner cars to drive than the Z.