skooly

The 350Z marks the return of the true Japanese sports car. To its credit, Nissan seems to have caught everyone with their pants down.

What do you think other car manufacturers should do with their lineups to compete with the 350Z?

Here are my suggestions:

Acura/Honda - Seriously needs to redesign the TL/CL. Acura needs to bump the horsepower in the Type S to at least 280 hp. A more muscular appearance would help alot, as the current style is "blah." Would love to see a manual V6 Accord. S2000 needs to be offered as a non-convertible coupe with more power. RSX-S is 2-3 years too late.

Mazda - What are they thinking? They are bringing out a four door sporty coupe (RX8) but ignoring any thought of the RX7. The RX8 will not compete against the 350z, nor is it supposed to, due to the extra seats and doors. Mazda is 1-2 years behind the curve.

BMW - Needs to abandon ridiculous ideas like the 1 (2?) series and just lower prices on the 3 series, ya greedy bastiges. To further capitilize on the nostalgia thing, they should bring back the 2002. What where they thinking?!?

Porsche - They need to bring back the 944. Who here can say they never lusted after a 944 at some point in their life??

VW - Worst mistake was killing the Corrado. GTI is nice but is small and beginning to look dated. They don't have anything to compete with.

Just my thoughts. What do you think?

rai

I'll give you 2 guesses on who makes the most money per car (I think this does not include small volume makes like ferrari/lambo etc.)

#2 BMW
#1 Porsche

These cars are priced like 40 year old scotch. They should lower prices, but I don't see that happening. Instead BMW is trying to slide cheaper cars in under the 3 series, but these will not compete with the Z in performance.

Porsche is way way over priced just like the NSX. But while people just stopped buying the NSX (500/year), the 911/boxster sales have been good. Go figure. I can see porsche dropping the 911 engine in the Boxster S and up-ing the 911 power, but the price isn't going down any time soon.

Honda can compete right now with the S2000, they could offer it for under $30K, but they want to keep numbers low so the dealers can get MSRP or better. So I think they will keep it buisness as usual until they can't move them at these prices.

WRX STI and Mitsu Evo are comming and are going to be eating some of Nissan's lunch no doubt in the mid $30K's

Toyotya supra is going to be priced to start where the nissan leaves off (in the high 30's) I think. But unlike the STI and Evo this car is still a ways off.

bobbyz

iTrader: (1)

There is a reason why Porsches are so expensive besides gauging the customer. They are the last independent automobile manufacturer. Yes, they to share with VW and Audi, but not to the extent that Ford shares with Jaguar or Nissan Shares with Infinity. They sell very few cars each year compared to the big guns, but the cars that they produce require much more money on development then most cars. So the money for R&D has to come from somewhere. I mean, the Cayenne must have cost a fortune in R&D as they developed a new V8TT and V8NA engine for it.

azjimbo

Lust a 944?You have got to be kidding?

rai

There was a time when the 944 was the bomb. It was kept on hand by a lot of car magazines to compair other cars to especially in the handeling department. I drove an old old 944 and was not impressed, but the car had a hard life with 150K miles and it was still running.

Also I am sure that Porsche spends less to develope their cars. Ford and GM can spend 2 billion and end up with crap like saturn or taurus. But they can deduct that 2 billion over 4 million cars and only charge like $500/car. If Porsche spent 2 billion, and only sold 20,000 cars a year they would have to charge like $50K per vehicle just to cover development costs. Porsche probably spent like $500 million to developr the Boxster. GM can spend $500 million to develope a turn signal stalk. Porsche has a smaller engineering group and does the best with what they have.

NSANY

Honda/Acura has more than enough technical know-how to put together a car to compete with the Z, but it's definitely not going to happen if they plan on basing it around the RSX. The Type R was a GREAT car, but it's not a Z.

There will always be a market for people to buy Porsches. These same people will lease a summer home in the Hamptons for $5000 a week, and then sit in traffic on the LIE and never get a stitch above 10 MPH. Bravo for them.

Subaru and Mitsu will have no shortage of buyers when their respective rally cars come out. It'll be interesting to see how they chew into the Z sales. They're different-purpose cars, but when you're in that 30K price class, it's easy to see why one would look at both the STi and the Z.

BMW needs a reality check. $50,000 for an M3? Cars are definitely a subjective thing, and in my humble subjective opinion, I'd much rather have my Z, plus an extra $20,000 in my pocket. BMW's falling into the same trap that Nissan did in the mid-90s by charging an arm and a leg for their cars. With the downturn in the economy, a lot of people are starting to realize that it's a pain in the *** to pay $600 a month for a lease or a car payment. Sooner or later, Icarus will indeed fly too close to the Sun and will fall back to earth.

It'll be VERY interesting to see what happens with the renaissance of the Japanese super-coupes. The mid-90s were the BEST time in autodom, when you had the 300ZX, Supra, RX-7, and 3000GT VR-4 vying for magazine covers. All four became overpriced monsters that collapsed under their own expensive weight (BMW's headed for the same fate).

Nissan hit the nail dead-on with the 350Z, and it'll be interesting to see what Toyota does with the Supra. Mazda's blowing it BIG TIME with the RX-8, and would do well to bring back the 7 at a lower price point.

Long story short, the Z will have its work cut out for it in the next few years, and I can't wait to see what the other manufacturers roll out. We could be on the cusp of a VERY exciting time in automotive history.

robbyn

The 944 was a great car but Porshe killed it by raising the price too much. I switched from a Z to the 944 in 83 when it didn't cost that much more than a Z -- I paid about $20K. Then in '87 I bought the 944S for $30K -- that price was pushing my comfort zone, but it was a great car. After an unfortunate experiment with the laws of gravity (I don't wanna talk about it), I was back in the market in 88. In one year the 944 had gone from $30K to $40K and was now completly outside my comfort range. I returned back to the Z for a mere $19K (I got a great deal on it, well below invoice). People asked my why I went back to the Z from the Porshe, I explained the Z was $75% of the Porshe for less than 50% of the price. Ironically, Nissan then killed the Z the same way Porshe killed the 944, my 88Z was $19k, 8 years later the Z was over $40K and dead. Hopefully, Nissan won't make the same mistake again.

Traffic

Well, although this wasn't quite a reaction to the 350Z, the RX-8 is a direct competitor. ~$25-30K, ~280HP, about the same as the Z. Having a backseat doesn't mean it's not a competitor. If they came out at the same time, I'd have a pretty hard time deciding between the two. What I'd like to know is if or when Mazda is bringing back the 7, and at what price? Apparently, Toyota may be reviving the Supra, but it may be in the $40K price range, which looks like disaster territory. I do hope the Z brings down the used price of the Supra, which is seriously overinflated. $35K for a '93 Turbo? That's pretty ridiculous. I think the WRX STi and the real EvoVII will also steal some sales from the Z, as they are much more practical, and AWD doesn't hurt. I just think their styling is horrendous. BMW is getting back in the game with the Z4, although that is likely not coming out for another 12 months. I wonder if Honda is going to lower the price on the S2000. As it is, although it's fast, I never really thought it was worth $33K.

josh

the rx7 is comming back a year or two after the rx8.

NSANY

I'll believe that when I see it...

BrianZ

It aint.

J350

check out my other post in the Off-topic forum concerning some published material about a 2004 Toyota Supra: https://my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=1815

robbyn

I might consider buying the RX8 -- IN 2010!! I won't trust the wankel engine until it has been out 7 or 8 years and shown good reliability. I am WAY too big to be a guena pig.

z350z

Huh? The wankel engine has been "out" and showing good reliability for almost 40 years!

z350z

Copat, very good analysis of the various cars and I agree 100%. You cut through a lot of crap and got right to the point, especially with the demise of the 90's cars and the new approach of the 350z.

3rdpower

Rotory dead at 100-150k? That was the old way.