OMG! IT'S ALIVE!

Go with the 07.

I know it is not in the list of choices, but it seems to obvious way to go.

 

Agreed.

 

I already have a Z.

Which would you people rather have, for a DD that is a heavy autox'er?

300 or 287.

 

Don't care about the 1/4. Our cars weren't made for that anyway.

 

If you have the 287(non-revup) you have to spend money to get the HP. If you have the 300(revup) you have to spend money to get the TQ. Take your pick but either way you are trying to get the best of both and have to spend more money. I could be wrong; but most add-ons be it a CAI or FI that I've noticed add more HP than TQ ALMOST every time so I'll take the TQ to start and add HP. It seems easier to add HP but again I could be wrong? It just comes down to a personal preference!

 

If you like to autox, I would suggest 287. Having more torque in the lower rpms is critical to autoxing imo because you spend the majority of the time in the middle rpm range and so peak HP isn't so important. While, the two ratings are are merely functions of each other, where you get tq is much more important in road racing and autoxing whereas with drag (i'm assuming because I really don't know much about dragging), you spend so much time pushing it in those high rpms you want higher HP. I hope this helps and is accurate.

ChiShi

 

This is a funny thread. A classic example of internet bench racing where people are arguing over minutia and ignore the big picture. Unless you're competing at the top levels of autocross or road racing, the horsepower and torque differences between these two engines are insignificant. The spring rate and brake changes between the model years are more significant.

 

lol, true that suspension and brakes are more important for us amateurs... someone asked a question and others of us tried to answer the best we could. Thanks for your input though.

ChiShi

 

I am speaking of stock vs. stock.

 

This is why I'm asking. Prepping a couple 350's for National competition. You are more than welcome to keep laughing instead of contributing.
I am aware that the 04.5+ rear spring rates are 25% stiffer than the ones before that. I obviously know that the Brembos are superior to non.
When every little bit counts, you need to know. And I do.

 

This is my initial impression. I believe I'll just go to the dyno shop and run 3 times with the 287 setup, and then run 3 times with the 300 setup. Peak numbers are for dyno queens anyway, I want to see the curves and their differences.

 

I think its a tough call. The RevUp gives you a 7000rpm redline but less tq down low. I would GUESS that the 287 would be better for most autocross courses as you seldom really get the use that last 500 rpm of redline (and thus the extra multiplication of that lower gear). On the roadcourse I would think RevUp unless it was just not geared well for the car. I would be curious to see a actual revup vs 287 dyno to see where the tq is lost in the curve. I think it's a moot point if you can use the Mrev2 spacer in your class as it gives all that tq back and you still keep the higher redline.

 

I'm not going to have the benefit of swapping the entire engine between dyno runs. The engine we are testing is a 287, and the only difference between dyno runs will the upper and lower plenum. Just to see the power differences. Redline on the test car can be changed as needed, but we will initially keep the stock redline of 6600 on the 287 test car.
We do not plan to use any power adders at first. Just want to see which completely stock setup works better. Then we will see which stock setup works better with some additional breathing mods. First we'll start with a catback only. Then we'll go with the intake mods....

 

For some info on it.
The most noted difference is the Rev-Up engine. This too was carried over from the 2005 anniversary model, again upsetting some 35th owners. Although still designated VQ35DE, this engine has significant differences from the previous engine. The engine is unofficially titled "Rev Up" due to the slightly higher redline.
* Rev-Up engine
* velocity stack
* Revised cam timing.
* Variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust.
* Revised lower intake plenum.
* Redesigned piston (rod pin area)
* LH Exhaust Camshaft
* LH Intake Camshaft
* RH Exhaust Camshaft
* RH Intake Camshaft
* Connecting Rod
* Connecting Rod Bolt
* Crankshaft: Uses the same connecting rod bearings and main bearings / thrust washers as other crank.
* Crankshaft Assembly
* Cylinder Head Assembly - LH
* Cylinder Head Assembly - RH
* Pistons - STD 1, 2, 3, & OS0.20
* Pistion Ring Set STD
* Piston Ring Set OS 0.20
* Valve Spring
* Track Valve Spring Retainer
* VTC Pulley & Cover Kit LH (does not include gasket or bolts)
* VTC Pulley & Cover Kit RH (does not include gasket or bolts)
* VTC Cover Gasket LH
* VTC Cover Gasket RH
* VTC Cover Bolt
Larger rotors
* Front:Vented disc, single caliper pistons 12.59'' x 1.10''
* Rear:Vented disc, single caliper piston 12.13'' x 0.63''
* Brembo Front:Vented disc, 4 caliper pistons 12.76” x 1.18”
* Brembo Rear:Vented disc, 4 caliper pistons 12.76” x 1.18”


and speed sensoring steering. Along with larger rotors for the none brembro.






For a road race setup the revup will probably prove better, since uptop is where you will be keeping the engine . Reliablilty i would say the revup would prove better aswell for a RR setup due to the internals 30% change with the beefier pistons etc . The both engines are great and the new HR is the perfect combonation of the 2 . But i went with the revup, as i believe the potential is there for the mythical 300rwhp number NA. And i love the enhacements its like a beta engine for the HR. lol
and plus the revup engine is kinda gonna to be more rare since the HRs and reg 287 are more out there with the masses, since the revup is a limited engine (no more in the 6mt 07Zs) i like to be sorta different. lol. But to tell you the truth my deliema with the engine that since this is more geared towards a top end engine , if you where to add the moderdyne parts you kind of negate the top end part and yea give you the tq back but still at a hp decrease up top from what im seeing . Its a trade off. For me im going to modd her NA as much as possible and then my final mod would be to see if the MREV2 and Spacer doesnt kill my peak hp as when i race i normally do highway runs or, eventually will like to do a Road race course if i ever find a event.

 

It's important to understand the relationship of HP/TQ is simply a mathematical relationship. They are the same thing in the end because you can't raise HP at one RPM with out change tq at the same RPM. So it's a moot point in some ways. What matters is what engine has the most HP/TQ at the rpms that you use during your "timed event" (autocross, 1/4, roadcourse). Hydrazine pointed out that the average rpm on the roadcouse was 5600rpm. I assume this was on a 287 (6600rpm redline right?) engine. What the RevUp has done is create a higher redline at the small sacrifice of some tq. Hold on to your britches but I am going to tell you that in reality the RevUp has lost ZERO tq on the road, actually it has increased TQ on the road over the old 287. Now this only exist if you can do 1 thing. And its a very important thing. You have to be able to shift at redline. If you shift at redline every time the RevUp will be shifting 400rpm latter. It will get to use the TQ multiplication of it’s of its gears 500rpm longer. Gears are more important to TQ then a small change in actual engine TQ. Cars produce TQ at the wheels thru the process of Multiplying that tq thru the transmission and final drive. I have not done it but I am confident if you took the time to get a 100 rpm printout hp of the 287 and 300hp VQ and then use the tools on the internet to figure out shiftpoints you will find that extra 500rpm of redline will more then make up for the slight loss in TQ. This again assumes you get to shift at redline every time. It’s important to understand as well that redline alone is not enough. You have to be making HP at the redline. There are tools on the internet that let you plug in your HP at a given RPM as well as your transmission gearing and it will figure out your wheel HP/TQ and you can figure out what is your best shift point for each gear.

Edited out incorrect redline info.

 

That's all well and good, and I agree with you Steve.

But for what we're doing, it's kind of irrevelant.

We're working with a 287 car. The redline is currently 6600. We will dyno with the car 100% stock, and then dyno again with the only change being the lower/upper plenums from the 300 motor. Then we will likely raise the redline to 7100 and try again. I will post charts, ect.

 

It relates to you because if you can find a way to increase HP above the current point you can make HP later in the curve and hold on to each gear longer and get the benifit of lower gear multipliaction longer. My point is don't tune for TQ alone. Your not, I am just explaining how to figure out if your upper RPM power is more important then your lower rpm tq.

 

I see what you mean, and thanks!
Next issue is relating it all to traction in the lower rpm range.....

 

What class are you guys building the cars for? Sounds fun. Good luck.

 

your stang was slow cause it had 145 horsepower dog...there are crotch rockets with more power than that & stangs are heavy...MREV2's add torque & midrange power, whilst losing like 2 hp at top end, but midrange power & torque are increased by like 18hp/lb ft from 3k-6k rpm's. it all adds up to much quicker acceleration