My open letter to Nissan USA.
03-29-2003, 06:47 PM
#21
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Open Letter
Excellent letter, Steve. I am not a racer, but I can testify that the stock suspension and OE tires made the 350Z's ride the worst I have ever experienced on a modern sports car. Changing the OE tires for $1000+ helped somewhat, but the springs and shocks are so mismatched it makes me feel like I'm driving my 1982 Mustang GT with a live axle, instead of the independent suspension on the Z.
Like Steve, I will be dipping into my own pocket to rectify a deeply flawed suspension. If the S-Tune suspension had been an option on my Touring 5AT, I would have gladly paid for the option to make my Z handle as well as the chassis is obviously capable of doing. Now, I have had such a miserable experience with the OE suspension, purchasing the S-Tune parts is unlikely, unless I, and the other preorders who trusted Nissan, receive a discount amounting to the difference between the retail and wholesale price of the S-Tune suspension.
It would be a gesture of good will by Nissan and, the discount should be retroactive to Steve and others who have already paid for one in the aftermarket. I believe, as many others may, we should not have to pay for a good sports car suspension twice and that is what we do if we have to resort to the aftermarket to make our Zs handle and ride the way they should from the factory.
Keith Hammer aka Boomer @my350Z.com and 350frenZy.com.
These statements constitute my own opinions and are not necessarily those of others who are members of my350Z.com or 350frenZy.com.
Like Steve, I will be dipping into my own pocket to rectify a deeply flawed suspension. If the S-Tune suspension had been an option on my Touring 5AT, I would have gladly paid for the option to make my Z handle as well as the chassis is obviously capable of doing. Now, I have had such a miserable experience with the OE suspension, purchasing the S-Tune parts is unlikely, unless I, and the other preorders who trusted Nissan, receive a discount amounting to the difference between the retail and wholesale price of the S-Tune suspension.
It would be a gesture of good will by Nissan and, the discount should be retroactive to Steve and others who have already paid for one in the aftermarket. I believe, as many others may, we should not have to pay for a good sports car suspension twice and that is what we do if we have to resort to the aftermarket to make our Zs handle and ride the way they should from the factory.
Keith Hammer aka Boomer @my350Z.com and 350frenZy.com.
These statements constitute my own opinions and are not necessarily those of others who are members of my350Z.com or 350frenZy.com.
03-29-2003, 07:13 PM
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I really don't see how so many of you are slamming the handling of the Z, while so many reviews by people that do nothing but rate the latest and greatest out there have such high praise for the Z. Saying the Z has telepathic handling, etc, and comparing it to cars that cost so much more, says quite a bit to me. I am not disappointed in the handling, but yes I could go for less understeer.
03-29-2003, 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by ethan84ae
because it doesn't come standard with an 8000 lb front bumper wench.
because it doesn't come standard with an 8000 lb front bumper wench.
A "wench" is different...
-- Mark
03-29-2003, 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by SunsetZ
I really don't see how so many of you are slamming the handling of the Z, while so many reviews by people that do nothing but rate the latest and greatest out there have such high praise for the Z. Saying the Z has telepathic handling, etc, and comparing it to cars that cost so much more, says quite a bit to me. I am not disappointed in the handling, but yes I could go for less understeer.
I really don't see how so many of you are slamming the handling of the Z, while so many reviews by people that do nothing but rate the latest and greatest out there have such high praise for the Z. Saying the Z has telepathic handling, etc, and comparing it to cars that cost so much more, says quite a bit to me. I am not disappointed in the handling, but yes I could go for less understeer.
Nissan advertised and touted the Z as a true sports car. Nissan specifically said it would NOT be a "GT" like the Z32. True sportscars do not make the handling compromises that the Z has made. So, while it's true that the vast majority of people will never care about too much understeer, the car was pre-sold as a true sportcar and should handle as such, not a GT car.
Now Nissan has to face the fugly, underpowered RX8, and in every comparo that has happened, and that will follow, the Z will get reamed in the handling department. That's not exactly the department you want to lose in a sportscar comparo.
03-29-2003, 11:02 PM
#26
Originally posted by raceboy
You need to read the article a little closer. Big Willow was the track they used, it's is the fastest track west of the Mississippi. The 1:39 second lap they ran equated to a 90mph average speed!!! There are no turns on the track that are slower than about 50mph. This layout really suits the Z's pushing characteristic.
I don't have the article in front of me, but I think it said something like "the Z was the easiest car to be comfortable in and drive fast right away." I have done quite a few laps at that track (even managed to win a Barber Series Race there once). That is exactly the type of comment I would expect from a pushing car on a fast track. The Z's understeer is not severe on faster corners, but it's always slightly present. It helps you grow "artificial *****." It just feels very stable. Trouble is that the more steering you dial in (as on tighter tracks) the more pronounced the oversteer becomes.
Had they used the tighter Streets of Willow track, that article would have come out totally different, so the test was biased since Big Willow is a unique track with no variety to it's corners. In fact, it's the worse track of any that I can think of to really judge the handling of a car. Just like any oval track racer can tell you (ovals are real similar to Big Willow) you set up the car for slight oversteer for your qualifying (fastest way around the track for a lap) and then you dial in just a hint of push for the long haul of the race.
I hope that makes sense.
As far as my MR2's suspension; yes it was modified with the TRD Sportivo kit. But the MR2 was a stellar handler stock. The Sportivo did not change the fundamental handling dynamics of the Spyder, it only enhanced it and geared it more towards track use. It was much stiffer than the stock suspension and much harsher on a long trip. The S-Tune on the other hand makes you feel like you are driving a different car. In fact, if I couldn't tell what kind of car I was actually in, I would probably think that an S-Tuned Z and a stock suspended Z were two totally different vehicles.
You need to read the article a little closer. Big Willow was the track they used, it's is the fastest track west of the Mississippi. The 1:39 second lap they ran equated to a 90mph average speed!!! There are no turns on the track that are slower than about 50mph. This layout really suits the Z's pushing characteristic.
I don't have the article in front of me, but I think it said something like "the Z was the easiest car to be comfortable in and drive fast right away." I have done quite a few laps at that track (even managed to win a Barber Series Race there once). That is exactly the type of comment I would expect from a pushing car on a fast track. The Z's understeer is not severe on faster corners, but it's always slightly present. It helps you grow "artificial *****." It just feels very stable. Trouble is that the more steering you dial in (as on tighter tracks) the more pronounced the oversteer becomes.
Had they used the tighter Streets of Willow track, that article would have come out totally different, so the test was biased since Big Willow is a unique track with no variety to it's corners. In fact, it's the worse track of any that I can think of to really judge the handling of a car. Just like any oval track racer can tell you (ovals are real similar to Big Willow) you set up the car for slight oversteer for your qualifying (fastest way around the track for a lap) and then you dial in just a hint of push for the long haul of the race.
I hope that makes sense.
As far as my MR2's suspension; yes it was modified with the TRD Sportivo kit. But the MR2 was a stellar handler stock. The Sportivo did not change the fundamental handling dynamics of the Spyder, it only enhanced it and geared it more towards track use. It was much stiffer than the stock suspension and much harsher on a long trip. The S-Tune on the other hand makes you feel like you are driving a different car. In fact, if I couldn't tell what kind of car I was actually in, I would probably think that an S-Tuned Z and a stock suspended Z were two totally different vehicles.
btw, I thought stiffer shocks would help correct a bit of understeer, then you add sway bars and it is MUCH better??
btw2, I am not sure how to take the "the Z was the easiest car to drive to the limit" excuse, these testers have driven the 911 since the 60s and know its characteristics and they have GOTTEN much better in recent years (I grew up with a father who had 2 911s, so I know all about the "odd" rear heavy characteristics that car has). M3s aren't that hard to drive either, so I am NOT sure where that comes from (certainly not as hard as a 911)??
these are honest questions???
03-29-2003, 11:24 PM
#27
Originally posted by raceboy
All those magazines that your are talking about are a business. Their business is not to get you the latest car info, it's to sell advertising space. It's much easier to sell said space when you say nice things; especially when it's about Nissan's make or break car in their revival plan.
Nissan advertised and touted the Z as a true sports car. Nissan specifically said it would NOT be a "GT" like the Z32. True sportscars do not make the handling compromises that the Z has made. So, while it's true that the vast majority of people will never care about too much understeer, the car was pre-sold as a true sportcar and should handle as such, not a GT car.
Now Nissan has to face the fugly, underpowered RX8, and in every comparo that has happened, and that will follow, the Z will get reamed in the handling department. That's not exactly the department you want to lose in a sportscar comparo.
All those magazines that your are talking about are a business. Their business is not to get you the latest car info, it's to sell advertising space. It's much easier to sell said space when you say nice things; especially when it's about Nissan's make or break car in their revival plan.
Nissan advertised and touted the Z as a true sports car. Nissan specifically said it would NOT be a "GT" like the Z32. True sportscars do not make the handling compromises that the Z has made. So, while it's true that the vast majority of people will never care about too much understeer, the car was pre-sold as a true sportcar and should handle as such, not a GT car.
Now Nissan has to face the fugly, underpowered RX8, and in every comparo that has happened, and that will follow, the Z will get reamed in the handling department. That's not exactly the department you want to lose in a sportscar comparo.
here are some quotes
"Nissan feels more like a TRUE SPORTS car than the Mazda", "(Mazda) handling is more like that of a good sports saloon (sedan)", "the Z has what feels like massive GRIP and performance after the relatively dainty, rolly RX-8", MAZDA-"which undoubtedly helps with the delicately balanced handling, far better on real roads THAN artificial environment of the TRACK", "whatever else the RX8 maybe, its NOT a hardcore driving device, certainly not in this company (against the Z)...In direct comparison the Z has what feels like massive grip and massive performance after the relatively dainty, rolly mazda"."...But as a TRUE sports car, the nissan walks it (RX8) after even teh briefest of comparison runs. Think the difference between a BMW 330i and a Porsche Boxster and your CLOSE (meaning there is a bigger difference) to the league of difference here.""the Mazda will have to settle for what it is, a 4 door sporting saloon thats been subtly disguised as a coupe".
these comments seem to sure support the Z when comparing it to the RX8
I am still confused??
btw, these tests took place with US spec cars in california and at Laguna Seca race track.
it should be noted that CAR magazine is usually MUCH more bold than american magazines and tells it like it is, unlike what we sometimes read here, that is one of the reasons I like it.
03-29-2003, 11:44 PM
#28
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really, we Z oweners are in good shape
Steve,
I respect your opinion and support your decision to writie a letter to Nissan. As a Performance owner myself, I think we Zowners should always be providing feedback to Nissan so they can (for future owners' sakes) correct flaws or deficiencies on future models.
Having said that, I do not feel you were being misled. Remember what a bargain this car is. And remember that Nissan has invoked a policy of providing factory warrenties on NISMO upgrades (coincided with the return of the Z I think).
Sure, you had to pay an extra 2K or so to get the performance you desired. Keep in mind that the vast majority of Z owners are not experienced track drivers,and would never feel the need upgrade their suspension.
The way I look at, Nissan provided the answer though NISMO. Other than the time spent in upgrade (and few frustrated track days for you), I see little difference in the following 2 scenarios:
1. Nissan selling a track model with Nismo suspension costing 2K higher MSRP,
2. Nissan selling one without it and providing a buyer the option to upgrade for an added expense.
I think its still a bargain either way! Also, remember, you are comparing the handling to much lighter cars (MR2 and Miata). I think if you look across the board, you will find most (not all)sport cars weighing over 3200 lbs posses understeer characteristics like the Z (the BMW M3 comes to mind).
Sure, it would be neat if the Track model was really "Track ready", but it was clear early on that the only feature of the track model would be brakes and lighter wheels. Nissan stated that all suspensions would be the same.
So I hope you can see that things weren't THAT bad. We're all in good shape I think. Its a great car, I love it. And proper marketing strategies will surely improve future Z models (partly based on customer feedback), so it would surprise me if future track models do have the Nismo suspension.
Just my 2 cents, Steve,
glad to hear your Z if proper now, though,
RaymanZ
I respect your opinion and support your decision to writie a letter to Nissan. As a Performance owner myself, I think we Zowners should always be providing feedback to Nissan so they can (for future owners' sakes) correct flaws or deficiencies on future models.
Having said that, I do not feel you were being misled. Remember what a bargain this car is. And remember that Nissan has invoked a policy of providing factory warrenties on NISMO upgrades (coincided with the return of the Z I think).
Sure, you had to pay an extra 2K or so to get the performance you desired. Keep in mind that the vast majority of Z owners are not experienced track drivers,and would never feel the need upgrade their suspension.
The way I look at, Nissan provided the answer though NISMO. Other than the time spent in upgrade (and few frustrated track days for you), I see little difference in the following 2 scenarios:
1. Nissan selling a track model with Nismo suspension costing 2K higher MSRP,
2. Nissan selling one without it and providing a buyer the option to upgrade for an added expense.
I think its still a bargain either way! Also, remember, you are comparing the handling to much lighter cars (MR2 and Miata). I think if you look across the board, you will find most (not all)sport cars weighing over 3200 lbs posses understeer characteristics like the Z (the BMW M3 comes to mind).
Sure, it would be neat if the Track model was really "Track ready", but it was clear early on that the only feature of the track model would be brakes and lighter wheels. Nissan stated that all suspensions would be the same.
So I hope you can see that things weren't THAT bad. We're all in good shape I think. Its a great car, I love it. And proper marketing strategies will surely improve future Z models (partly based on customer feedback), so it would surprise me if future track models do have the Nismo suspension.
Just my 2 cents, Steve,
glad to hear your Z if proper now, though,
RaymanZ
03-30-2003, 07:12 AM
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Get Specific......
A great letter, justified and point made.....as far as a true "TRACK" model 350Z.
I agree that for hard-core track driving entusiasts, the "track" model should incorporate the NISMO handling kit, especially reflecting the higher price and "top of the line" designation.
However, for most drivers (90% of Z owners) the current setup on the 350Z is more than adequate. IMO, the car is by no means unstable, it absolutely outhandles any previous Z on the street, and I have owned or driven them all.
For those wanting to spend more time on the track instead of the street, the NISMO package should be on your car. Nissan should think about a "higher" level (ie: price) true-track 350Z model for those wanting one for track needs.
I agree that for hard-core track driving entusiasts, the "track" model should incorporate the NISMO handling kit, especially reflecting the higher price and "top of the line" designation.
However, for most drivers (90% of Z owners) the current setup on the 350Z is more than adequate. IMO, the car is by no means unstable, it absolutely outhandles any previous Z on the street, and I have owned or driven them all.
For those wanting to spend more time on the track instead of the street, the NISMO package should be on your car. Nissan should think about a "higher" level (ie: price) true-track 350Z model for those wanting one for track needs.
03-30-2003, 07:39 AM
#30
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I'm with Steve all the way on this one...
As for a $2k cost difference... that's unexcusable.
The cost of parts are $0 difference... R&D may be slight if any. The S-Tune... or something of the short should have been part of this "track" package.
The Brembos are VERY worth it on the open track... though that is the ONLY feature worthwhile.
Rays Wheels = Worthless
VDC = Worthless
The wheels can't accomodate a tire as wide as the Z can run... we've fit 255s in the front and 275s in the rear... S03 MIND YOU. Aftermarket 9.5" wheels up front, and 10" in the rear are VERY nice! The factory tire preferences and sizes are a joke.
So it boils down...
Why did Nissan take an enthusiast and add a few nice things, when in reality on the track the other models aren't any slower. They just can't brake as deep into the corners.
If you're going to call it a track... it needs to be PERFORMING like a TRACK car would... Hense it should FAR SUPERCEDE the handling of a "touring".
I'm very curious to see what Nissan has to say Steve...
Best regards!
As for a $2k cost difference... that's unexcusable.
The cost of parts are $0 difference... R&D may be slight if any. The S-Tune... or something of the short should have been part of this "track" package.
The Brembos are VERY worth it on the open track... though that is the ONLY feature worthwhile.
Rays Wheels = Worthless
VDC = Worthless
The wheels can't accomodate a tire as wide as the Z can run... we've fit 255s in the front and 275s in the rear... S03 MIND YOU. Aftermarket 9.5" wheels up front, and 10" in the rear are VERY nice! The factory tire preferences and sizes are a joke.
So it boils down...
Why did Nissan take an enthusiast and add a few nice things, when in reality on the track the other models aren't any slower. They just can't brake as deep into the corners.
If you're going to call it a track... it needs to be PERFORMING like a TRACK car would... Hense it should FAR SUPERCEDE the handling of a "touring".
I'm very curious to see what Nissan has to say Steve...
Best regards!
Last edited by PhoenixINX; 03-30-2003 at 07:41 AM.
03-30-2003, 09:35 AM
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Stop the whining!!
You know, I will probably get flamed to hell for this, but who cares. I AM TIRED OF THE WHINING ON THIS BOARD!!! Hell, I had my tranny replaced and I love my Z. The Z is simply the most fantastic car there is for the money. Nissan spent all the money where it counts on this car. Would you guys rather have 210hp and perfect paint? Rattles in the interior? Again, you could have had only 210hp. Abnormal tire wear? Ask an NSX owner or Porsche owner, they will eat a set of tires down to the cords in 5K miles no matter how you drive the car, skidazzle said it best "wanna play, you gotta pay." Bose stereo sux, hmmmm did you really expect it to not suck? Too much oversteer? Oversteer, are you freakin kidding me? The only way you can get too much oversteer in the Z is if you are a lepper and your foot fell off and stayed planted on the gas pedal, or maybe you are an epileptic and you just had a seizure. No offense (although I know this is totally offensive) but half the people here would have been much better off and much more happy with a G35.
Oh yeah, the sunglass holder actually does suck, won't hold any sunglasses I know of. Let's try to get an official Nissan recall to replace that damn thing!!
__________________
Steve Kaufman
"Straightaways are for fast cars, but the turns are for fast drivers."
Black 350 Track, everything but Navi and Rear Splash Guards. Delivered 8/20/02
This is from an earlier thread. I find it interesting.
You know, I will probably get flamed to hell for this, but who cares. I AM TIRED OF THE WHINING ON THIS BOARD!!! Hell, I had my tranny replaced and I love my Z. The Z is simply the most fantastic car there is for the money. Nissan spent all the money where it counts on this car. Would you guys rather have 210hp and perfect paint? Rattles in the interior? Again, you could have had only 210hp. Abnormal tire wear? Ask an NSX owner or Porsche owner, they will eat a set of tires down to the cords in 5K miles no matter how you drive the car, skidazzle said it best "wanna play, you gotta pay." Bose stereo sux, hmmmm did you really expect it to not suck? Too much oversteer? Oversteer, are you freakin kidding me? The only way you can get too much oversteer in the Z is if you are a lepper and your foot fell off and stayed planted on the gas pedal, or maybe you are an epileptic and you just had a seizure. No offense (although I know this is totally offensive) but half the people here would have been much better off and much more happy with a G35.
Oh yeah, the sunglass holder actually does suck, won't hold any sunglasses I know of. Let's try to get an official Nissan recall to replace that damn thing!!
__________________
Steve Kaufman
"Straightaways are for fast cars, but the turns are for fast drivers."
Black 350 Track, everything but Navi and Rear Splash Guards. Delivered 8/20/02
This is from an earlier thread. I find it interesting.
03-30-2003, 09:50 AM
#32
so let me see if I understand this. People are mad that the "track" doesn't perform like a "track" car should, given its name???
let me ask, how many car companies offer Brembo brakes and light wt Rays wheels on thier cars??
I know Porsche offers lighter wheels on the Turbo (hollow spokes, BUT you still don't get it on the Carrera4S a car that runs about $90, you get the "turbo look" wheel, but it is way heavier., I know that in germany, BMW offers a 19" wheel for the M3, as an option, but it is actually HEAVIER than the stock 18" wheels.
perhaps you guys are right, maybe they could have made slightly BETTER improvements to the suspension for the "track" model, but I do feel NIssan has made somewhat of an attempt ti make a good track car (for the $$) and it has some features that we don't see on other much higher end cars.
I ended up with a Touring because I knew it had the same tranny, suspension, engine, etc, etc...as the Track, and since I don't "track" my car and was planning on getting aftermarket wheels anyways, I didn't care so much for the Brembos and lt wt wheels. PLUS i love leather.
I think Nissan did a pretty good job for what we pay, I know that there are sacrifices, but for the $$ there has to be (try driving a 360 Modena with F1 shifting around a tight course, it is pretty tough to get use to and we are talking about a car that is well over $150k). Maybe, like some have said, the S2000 is a better car for the track (off the showroom), But I wouldn't trade my coupe for a cab, I wouldn't trade my 6 for a car with NO torque. I had the oppertunity to buy an S2000 for $25k with only a few hundred miles on it (long story), I even got to have it for a weekend to see what it was all about, but I didn't I waited for My Z, and am pretty satisfied (now if we could only get them to fix the TIRE FEATHERING problem (which maybe related to the suspension).
maybe someday they will offer a "trackS" version with the nismo kit, that would be a GREAT option for you tracksters (make is a bit ligher, like the E36 M3 light wt was for the M3), then again, maybe that is why there is a nismo suspension in the 1st place (is it avail at dealers yet??)
let me ask, how many car companies offer Brembo brakes and light wt Rays wheels on thier cars??
I know Porsche offers lighter wheels on the Turbo (hollow spokes, BUT you still don't get it on the Carrera4S a car that runs about $90, you get the "turbo look" wheel, but it is way heavier., I know that in germany, BMW offers a 19" wheel for the M3, as an option, but it is actually HEAVIER than the stock 18" wheels.
perhaps you guys are right, maybe they could have made slightly BETTER improvements to the suspension for the "track" model, but I do feel NIssan has made somewhat of an attempt ti make a good track car (for the $$) and it has some features that we don't see on other much higher end cars.
I ended up with a Touring because I knew it had the same tranny, suspension, engine, etc, etc...as the Track, and since I don't "track" my car and was planning on getting aftermarket wheels anyways, I didn't care so much for the Brembos and lt wt wheels. PLUS i love leather.
I think Nissan did a pretty good job for what we pay, I know that there are sacrifices, but for the $$ there has to be (try driving a 360 Modena with F1 shifting around a tight course, it is pretty tough to get use to and we are talking about a car that is well over $150k). Maybe, like some have said, the S2000 is a better car for the track (off the showroom), But I wouldn't trade my coupe for a cab, I wouldn't trade my 6 for a car with NO torque. I had the oppertunity to buy an S2000 for $25k with only a few hundred miles on it (long story), I even got to have it for a weekend to see what it was all about, but I didn't I waited for My Z, and am pretty satisfied (now if we could only get them to fix the TIRE FEATHERING problem (which maybe related to the suspension).
maybe someday they will offer a "trackS" version with the nismo kit, that would be a GREAT option for you tracksters (make is a bit ligher, like the E36 M3 light wt was for the M3), then again, maybe that is why there is a nismo suspension in the 1st place (is it avail at dealers yet??)
03-30-2003, 09:53 AM
#33
Originally posted by g35or350z
Stop the whining!!
You know, I will probably get flamed to hell for this, but who cares. I AM TIRED OF THE WHINING ON THIS BOARD!!! Hell, I had my tranny replaced and I love my Z. The Z is simply the most fantastic car there is for the money. Nissan spent all the money where it counts on this car. Would you guys rather have 210hp and perfect paint? Rattles in the interior? Again, you could have had only 210hp. Abnormal tire wear? Ask an NSX owner or Porsche owner, they will eat a set of tires down to the cords in 5K miles no matter how you drive the car, skidazzle said it best "wanna play, you gotta pay." Bose stereo sux, hmmmm did you really expect it to not suck? Too much oversteer? Oversteer, are you freakin kidding me? The only way you can get too much oversteer in the Z is if you are a lepper and your foot fell off and stayed planted on the gas pedal, or maybe you are an epileptic and you just had a seizure. No offense (although I know this is totally offensive) but half the people here would have been much better off and much more happy with a G35.
Oh yeah, the sunglass holder actually does suck, won't hold any sunglasses I know of. Let's try to get an official Nissan recall to replace that damn thing!!
__________________
Steve Kaufman
"Straightaways are for fast cars, but the turns are for fast drivers."
Black 350 Track, everything but Navi and Rear Splash Guards. Delivered 8/20/02
This is from an earlier thread. I find it interesting.
Stop the whining!!
You know, I will probably get flamed to hell for this, but who cares. I AM TIRED OF THE WHINING ON THIS BOARD!!! Hell, I had my tranny replaced and I love my Z. The Z is simply the most fantastic car there is for the money. Nissan spent all the money where it counts on this car. Would you guys rather have 210hp and perfect paint? Rattles in the interior? Again, you could have had only 210hp. Abnormal tire wear? Ask an NSX owner or Porsche owner, they will eat a set of tires down to the cords in 5K miles no matter how you drive the car, skidazzle said it best "wanna play, you gotta pay." Bose stereo sux, hmmmm did you really expect it to not suck? Too much oversteer? Oversteer, are you freakin kidding me? The only way you can get too much oversteer in the Z is if you are a lepper and your foot fell off and stayed planted on the gas pedal, or maybe you are an epileptic and you just had a seizure. No offense (although I know this is totally offensive) but half the people here would have been much better off and much more happy with a G35.
Oh yeah, the sunglass holder actually does suck, won't hold any sunglasses I know of. Let's try to get an official Nissan recall to replace that damn thing!!
__________________
Steve Kaufman
"Straightaways are for fast cars, but the turns are for fast drivers."
Black 350 Track, everything but Navi and Rear Splash Guards. Delivered 8/20/02
This is from an earlier thread. I find it interesting.
03-30-2003, 09:56 AM
#34
a question for the track guys
would a better gripping tire (AA rated, VS A rated) tire that has less sidewall (35 series VS 40 series) and widerfoot print (245 F, VS 225) help this car to handle better??? (I know many are very disappointed with the tires, which is even more amazing at how the Z out tracked the 911 and M3 on FAR better tires)
would the new tires help, or would it only help a little bit???
would a better gripping tire (AA rated, VS A rated) tire that has less sidewall (35 series VS 40 series) and widerfoot print (245 F, VS 225) help this car to handle better??? (I know many are very disappointed with the tires, which is even more amazing at how the Z out tracked the 911 and M3 on FAR better tires)
would the new tires help, or would it only help a little bit???
03-30-2003, 10:00 AM
#35
Originally posted by Evil350z
I'm with Steve all the way on this one...
As for a $2k cost difference... that's unexcusable.
The cost of parts are $0 difference... R&D may be slight if any. The S-Tune... or something of the short should have been part of this "track" package.
The Brembos are VERY worth it on the open track... though that is the ONLY feature worthwhile.
Rays Wheels = Worthless
VDC = Worthless
The wheels can't accomodate a tire as wide as the Z can run... we've fit 255s in the front and 275s in the rear... S03 MIND YOU. Aftermarket 9.5" wheels up front, and 10" in the rear are VERY nice! The factory tire preferences and sizes are a joke.
So it boils down...
Why did Nissan take an enthusiast and add a few nice things, when in reality on the track the other models aren't any slower. They just can't brake as deep into the corners.
If you're going to call it a track... it needs to be PERFORMING like a TRACK car would... Hense it should FAR SUPERCEDE the handling of a "touring".
I'm very curious to see what Nissan has to say Steve...
Best regards!
I'm with Steve all the way on this one...
As for a $2k cost difference... that's unexcusable.
The cost of parts are $0 difference... R&D may be slight if any. The S-Tune... or something of the short should have been part of this "track" package.
The Brembos are VERY worth it on the open track... though that is the ONLY feature worthwhile.
Rays Wheels = Worthless
VDC = Worthless
The wheels can't accomodate a tire as wide as the Z can run... we've fit 255s in the front and 275s in the rear... S03 MIND YOU. Aftermarket 9.5" wheels up front, and 10" in the rear are VERY nice! The factory tire preferences and sizes are a joke.
So it boils down...
Why did Nissan take an enthusiast and add a few nice things, when in reality on the track the other models aren't any slower. They just can't brake as deep into the corners.
If you're going to call it a track... it needs to be PERFORMING like a TRACK car would... Hense it should FAR SUPERCEDE the handling of a "touring".
I'm very curious to see what Nissan has to say Steve...
Best regards!
03-30-2003, 10:32 AM
#36
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HEy Rodh,
speaking of better tires I notice you have the iforged 19 with the stock suspension and toyos how does that ride being that you upgraded to 2 sizes up from 17 inch stock I imagine>? any noticible appreaciation in roughnes and on the positive side handles better?your thoughts..
speaking of better tires I notice you have the iforged 19 with the stock suspension and toyos how does that ride being that you upgraded to 2 sizes up from 17 inch stock I imagine>? any noticible appreaciation in roughnes and on the positive side handles better?your thoughts..
03-30-2003, 11:02 AM
#37
Registered User
Originally posted by rodH
a question for the track guys
would a better gripping tire (AA rated, VS A rated) tire that has less sidewall (35 series VS 40 series) and widerfoot print (245 F, VS 225) help this car to handle better??? (I know many are very disappointed with the tires, which is even more amazing at how the Z out tracked the 911 and M3 on FAR better tires)
would the new tires help, or would it only help a little bit???
a question for the track guys
would a better gripping tire (AA rated, VS A rated) tire that has less sidewall (35 series VS 40 series) and widerfoot print (245 F, VS 225) help this car to handle better??? (I know many are very disappointed with the tires, which is even more amazing at how the Z out tracked the 911 and M3 on FAR better tires)
would the new tires help, or would it only help a little bit???
The understeer is in the design of the suspension geometry.
03-30-2003, 11:36 AM
#38
Originally posted by 350z4steve
HEy Rodh,
speaking of better tires I notice you have the iforged 19 with the stock suspension and toyos how does that ride being that you upgraded to 2 sizes up from 17 inch stock I imagine>? any noticible appreaciation in roughnes and on the positive side handles better?your thoughts..
HEy Rodh,
speaking of better tires I notice you have the iforged 19 with the stock suspension and toyos how does that ride being that you upgraded to 2 sizes up from 17 inch stock I imagine>? any noticible appreaciation in roughnes and on the positive side handles better?your thoughts..
03-30-2003, 11:37 AM
#39
Originally posted by Evil350z
No... Dougrace Zs is running the Kinesis 9.5" up front with 255s, 10" in the rear with 275s... and the PUSH is still VERY evident.
The understeer is in the design of the suspension geometry.
No... Dougrace Zs is running the Kinesis 9.5" up front with 255s, 10" in the rear with 275s... and the PUSH is still VERY evident.
The understeer is in the design of the suspension geometry.
03-30-2003, 05:12 PM
#40
Registered User
Originally posted by rodH
is it the actual "geometry" or just the stock shocks? In other words, would after market shocks or a larger rear sway bar cure it??
is it the actual "geometry" or just the stock shocks? In other words, would after market shocks or a larger rear sway bar cure it??
btw... if your VDC light is not coming on... it's because you're not pushing the car hard enough.
