My open letter to Nissan USA.
03-30-2003, 06:03 PM
#41
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let me add a couple more things. the track model, which uses the identical suspension as all the rest, will understeer more initially cuz of its wider rear wheel rim width. stiffens up the tire so the rear slip angle is less which results in a little more understeer. but that does allow more throttle to be added and accelerate quicker thru the corner. you need to slow down enough, before turning the wheel, to accel in the corner, not brake in the turn and then accel.
i had a chance to ride shotgun in a track model with a lemans and daytona 24hr winner at small club track in the detroit area, waterford. it's as tight or tighter than streets of willow. his comments on handling were "nicely balanced".
the nismo package increases front and rear spring rates, roll bar rates, and drops the ride height. it does move the car towards more neutral but it also does greatly increases quick ride motions. if you have a problem with freeway hop now, it won't get better with the nismo package.
i had a chance to ride shotgun in a track model with a lemans and daytona 24hr winner at small club track in the detroit area, waterford. it's as tight or tighter than streets of willow. his comments on handling were "nicely balanced".
the nismo package increases front and rear spring rates, roll bar rates, and drops the ride height. it does move the car towards more neutral but it also does greatly increases quick ride motions. if you have a problem with freeway hop now, it won't get better with the nismo package.
03-30-2003, 06:19 PM
#42
Originally posted by Evil350z
both would help...
btw... if your VDC light is not coming on... it's because you're not pushing the car hard enough.
both would help...
btw... if your VDC light is not coming on... it's because you're not pushing the car hard enough.
03-30-2003, 06:21 PM
#43
Originally posted by kaelepulu
let me add a couple more things. the track model, which uses the identical suspension as all the rest, will understeer more initially cuz of its wider rear wheel rim width. stiffens up the tire so the rear slip angle is less which results in a little more understeer. but that does allow more throttle to be added and accelerate quicker thru the corner. you need to slow down enough, before turning the wheel, to accel in the corner, not brake in the turn and then accel.
i had a chance to ride shotgun in a track model with a lemans and daytona 24hr winner at small club track in the detroit area, waterford. it's as tight or tighter than streets of willow. his comments on handling were "nicely balanced".
the nismo package increases front and rear spring rates, roll bar rates, and drops the ride height. it does move the car towards more neutral but it also does greatly increases quick ride motions. if you have a problem with freeway hop now, it won't get better with the nismo package.
let me add a couple more things. the track model, which uses the identical suspension as all the rest, will understeer more initially cuz of its wider rear wheel rim width. stiffens up the tire so the rear slip angle is less which results in a little more understeer. but that does allow more throttle to be added and accelerate quicker thru the corner. you need to slow down enough, before turning the wheel, to accel in the corner, not brake in the turn and then accel.
i had a chance to ride shotgun in a track model with a lemans and daytona 24hr winner at small club track in the detroit area, waterford. it's as tight or tighter than streets of willow. his comments on handling were "nicely balanced".
the nismo package increases front and rear spring rates, roll bar rates, and drops the ride height. it does move the car towards more neutral but it also does greatly increases quick ride motions. if you have a problem with freeway hop now, it won't get better with the nismo package.
03-30-2003, 07:19 PM
#44
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Originally posted by kaelepulu
let me add a couple more things. the track model, which uses the identical suspension as all the rest, will understeer more initially cuz of its wider rear wheel rim width. stiffens up the tire so the rear slip angle is less which results in a little more understeer. but that does allow more throttle to be added and accelerate quicker thru the corner. you need to slow down enough, before turning the wheel, to accel in the corner, not brake in the turn and then accel.
i had a chance to ride shotgun in a track model with a lemans and daytona 24hr winner at small club track in the detroit area, waterford. it's as tight or tighter than streets of willow. his comments on handling were "nicely balanced".
the nismo package increases front and rear spring rates, roll bar rates, and drops the ride height. it does move the car towards more neutral but it also does greatly increases quick ride motions. if you have a problem with freeway hop now, it won't get better with the nismo package.
let me add a couple more things. the track model, which uses the identical suspension as all the rest, will understeer more initially cuz of its wider rear wheel rim width. stiffens up the tire so the rear slip angle is less which results in a little more understeer. but that does allow more throttle to be added and accelerate quicker thru the corner. you need to slow down enough, before turning the wheel, to accel in the corner, not brake in the turn and then accel.
i had a chance to ride shotgun in a track model with a lemans and daytona 24hr winner at small club track in the detroit area, waterford. it's as tight or tighter than streets of willow. his comments on handling were "nicely balanced".
the nismo package increases front and rear spring rates, roll bar rates, and drops the ride height. it does move the car towards more neutral but it also does greatly increases quick ride motions. if you have a problem with freeway hop now, it won't get better with the nismo package.
I took some advice, went on a 250 mile round trip 80-85mph all the way, got passed by a new 330iC who kept speeding up from 80-85mph whenever I got close. I was doing 84 mph 5 miles from home in the fast lane and he was running about 80 in the slow lane about 10 car lengths ahead.
About 6 car lengths, I could feel him about to turn it up again on a clear road, I floored the 5AT and he floored his car when he realized I wasn't going to let up and the Z "SMOKED" him, he just quit after I blew past him. I was a 1/4 mile ahead of him before I let up at 120mph and he never got any closer to me all the way into town even when I had slowed to 60mph.
Boomer--Yeah, it was good for me. Screw NISMO. I'll put together my own suspension.
Last edited by Boomer; 03-30-2003 at 07:25 PM.
03-30-2003, 08:27 PM
#45
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My point is simply this, if Mazda and Toyota can make $22K car that handle absolutely perfect, then Nissan should be able to do it with a $35K car.
The problem was not inherent in the suspension geometry because a simple suspension kit solved everything.
I don't care about any of the other little problems, I can handle orange peel, rattles, fast tire wear, all of those things; as long as the car has the right dynamics. I would rather have a girlfriend with a few "blemishes" that does every dirty thing I like, than a perfect 10 that just lays there like a dead fish.
The problem was not inherent in the suspension geometry because a simple suspension kit solved everything.
I don't care about any of the other little problems, I can handle orange peel, rattles, fast tire wear, all of those things; as long as the car has the right dynamics. I would rather have a girlfriend with a few "blemishes" that does every dirty thing I like, than a perfect 10 that just lays there like a dead fish.
03-30-2003, 08:28 PM
#46
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Originally posted by kaelepulu
the nismo package increases front and rear spring rates, roll bar rates, and drops the ride height. it does move the car towards more neutral but it also does greatly increases quick ride motions. if you have a problem with freeway hop now, it won't get better with the nismo package.
the nismo package increases front and rear spring rates, roll bar rates, and drops the ride height. it does move the car towards more neutral but it also does greatly increases quick ride motions. if you have a problem with freeway hop now, it won't get better with the nismo package.
03-31-2003, 12:50 PM
#47
Originally posted by kaelepulu
let me add a couple more things. the track model, which uses the identical suspension as all the rest, will understeer more initially cuz of its wider rear wheel rim width. stiffens up the tire so the rear slip angle is less which results in a little more understeer. but that does allow more throttle to be added and accelerate quicker thru the corner. you need to slow down enough, before turning the wheel, to accel in the corner, not brake in the turn and then accel.
i had a chance to ride shotgun in a track model with a lemans and daytona 24hr winner at small club track in the detroit area, waterford. it's as tight or tighter than streets of willow. his comments on handling were "nicely balanced".
the nismo package increases front and rear spring rates, roll bar rates, and drops the ride height. it does move the car towards more neutral but it also does greatly increases quick ride motions. if you have a problem with freeway hop now, it won't get better with the nismo package.
let me add a couple more things. the track model, which uses the identical suspension as all the rest, will understeer more initially cuz of its wider rear wheel rim width. stiffens up the tire so the rear slip angle is less which results in a little more understeer. but that does allow more throttle to be added and accelerate quicker thru the corner. you need to slow down enough, before turning the wheel, to accel in the corner, not brake in the turn and then accel.
i had a chance to ride shotgun in a track model with a lemans and daytona 24hr winner at small club track in the detroit area, waterford. it's as tight or tighter than streets of willow. his comments on handling were "nicely balanced".
the nismo package increases front and rear spring rates, roll bar rates, and drops the ride height. it does move the car towards more neutral but it also does greatly increases quick ride motions. if you have a problem with freeway hop now, it won't get better with the nismo package.
03-31-2003, 07:18 PM
#48
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Does anyone know about the aforementioned spring change made in December? Does it affect all models, or is Nissan doing the right thing and updating the Track Pack suspension?
04-01-2003, 02:35 AM
#49
According to my dealer Nissan says there isn't a problem with bounce or choppy ride........He had forwarded my email to contacts at NNA. Guess I am back to square one. I still want to see pics of the preorder springs vs. whats going into the Z now. There is definitely something screwed up. We now know that the Eibachs fix the problem for around $220. There is also the NISMO suspension kit for a measly $1800............
04-01-2003, 02:57 AM
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Originally posted by ethan84ae
For drivers that don't have such an impressive driving resume as Steve (which is to say about 95% of people on this board), the stock neutral setup is probably preferred for safety reasons. While the handling might be a bit boring for really experienced drivers, it's idiot proof for beginners and intermediates. I'm a novice driver and I found that no matter how hard I pushed my Z at Limerock Park, I couldn't really unsettle the car. It was extremely easy for me to control and very confidence inspiring. I had a blast! Perhaps there are other novice drivers here who experienced the same thing?
I don't think the "Track" designation - or any of the model designations for that matter were supposed to be taken so literally. Its a bit like saying Ford is fasely advertising the "Explorer" because it doesn't come standard with an 8000 lb front bumper wench. If Nissan was really building a car specifically for the track, it wouldn't even be street legal (Take the new Viper Competition Coupe or the Lotus Elise Sport 190 as two examples...)
Oh- and just a side note- I think Nissan is more likely to take you seriously if you re-write your letter with a positive, constructive tone. You came off as being very confrontational and threatening.
-Ethan
For drivers that don't have such an impressive driving resume as Steve (which is to say about 95% of people on this board), the stock neutral setup is probably preferred for safety reasons. While the handling might be a bit boring for really experienced drivers, it's idiot proof for beginners and intermediates. I'm a novice driver and I found that no matter how hard I pushed my Z at Limerock Park, I couldn't really unsettle the car. It was extremely easy for me to control and very confidence inspiring. I had a blast! Perhaps there are other novice drivers here who experienced the same thing?
I don't think the "Track" designation - or any of the model designations for that matter were supposed to be taken so literally. Its a bit like saying Ford is fasely advertising the "Explorer" because it doesn't come standard with an 8000 lb front bumper wench. If Nissan was really building a car specifically for the track, it wouldn't even be street legal (Take the new Viper Competition Coupe or the Lotus Elise Sport 190 as two examples...)
Oh- and just a side note- I think Nissan is more likely to take you seriously if you re-write your letter with a positive, constructive tone. You came off as being very confrontational and threatening.
-Ethan
I have to disagree. As it is the Track model, over a base model, has Ray's wheels and brembo brakes (which are nice, but not near as good as aftermarket brembos) and an aero package. The markup for this stuff doesn't compute to the price. I tend to agree that putting the better suspension the track model only makes sense. I also think it should have a few engine go fast parts and perhaps exhaust also, but that's just me. This is from someone owning a touring model, not a track model, so you know.
Great letter, hope you get a response.
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