Comparisons; 350Z, Beetle Turbo S, Audi TT, and a MB Sports Coupe
07-23-2002, 01:48 AM
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Comparisons; 350Z, Beetle Turbo S, Audi TT, and a MB Sports Coupe
I was hoping you could provide some alternative
opinions here to help me make a decision. I am
considering the following cars:
350z Performance ~ $30K
225 AudiTT ~ $36K
Beetle Turbo S ~ $24K
MB C-Class Sports Coupe ~ $27K
What each of these cars has in common is safety
including; ESP/VDS, Traction Control,
frontal/side/curtain airbags, and some form of
Brake assist. This is important to me, as I want
to make sure my family and myself have the best
chance in an accident.
Now, which car appeals to my emotions most, either
the 350Z or the TT. Both are beautiful cars on the
exterior, the Z is faster but probably the same
on the twisties. I've seen the Z interior in
person, and It's my opinion that is of the lowest
quality of the four cars above. This bothers me a
bit since I'll spend most of my time inside the
car.
Ok, so price is also a consideration. For 24K I
can get the safety in the bug, but it's a little
too trendy (inside and out) for me. (24yo married
male). Now consider the MB sports coupe, the
interior is great, very nice and nothing feels
like it's going to break, ever. Yes, the exterior
rear end is ulgy and the twisties won't be as fun.
But it has a back seat which could be a problem 5
years from now if we want a family... I also like
the fact that MB includes all safety features
standard even on their low end model at $25K. I'm
a little less comfortable with nissan making
side/curtian air bags "optional". Japanese car
makers don't seem to make this their first
concern. (Note to ZISME, please pass this up the
food chain!)
So I'm caught between price, functionality and the
fun factor in driving. What's your opinion, did
you consider any of the points I brought up in
purchasing a Z? Thoughts?
Thanks for your input!
opinions here to help me make a decision. I am
considering the following cars:
350z Performance ~ $30K
225 AudiTT ~ $36K
Beetle Turbo S ~ $24K
MB C-Class Sports Coupe ~ $27K
What each of these cars has in common is safety
including; ESP/VDS, Traction Control,
frontal/side/curtain airbags, and some form of
Brake assist. This is important to me, as I want
to make sure my family and myself have the best
chance in an accident.
Now, which car appeals to my emotions most, either
the 350Z or the TT. Both are beautiful cars on the
exterior, the Z is faster but probably the same
on the twisties. I've seen the Z interior in
person, and It's my opinion that is of the lowest
quality of the four cars above. This bothers me a
bit since I'll spend most of my time inside the
car.
Ok, so price is also a consideration. For 24K I
can get the safety in the bug, but it's a little
too trendy (inside and out) for me. (24yo married
male). Now consider the MB sports coupe, the
interior is great, very nice and nothing feels
like it's going to break, ever. Yes, the exterior
rear end is ulgy and the twisties won't be as fun.
But it has a back seat which could be a problem 5
years from now if we want a family... I also like
the fact that MB includes all safety features
standard even on their low end model at $25K. I'm
a little less comfortable with nissan making
side/curtian air bags "optional". Japanese car
makers don't seem to make this their first
concern. (Note to ZISME, please pass this up the
food chain!)
So I'm caught between price, functionality and the
fun factor in driving. What's your opinion, did
you consider any of the points I brought up in
purchasing a Z? Thoughts?
Thanks for your input!
07-23-2002, 01:58 AM
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MB C Coupe - Chick's car, wannabe Benzo, ugly lil hatchback, etc. Plus with basic options, the car gets pushed to $30,000 range. NOT WORTH IT!
Beetle - C'mon now... If any males own this one, I think they should cut off thier (you know what)... J/K! Hmm... Small and cutesy, if that's what you like. But NO WAY for me!
TT - Overpriced and looks too much like a beetle. Just look at KBB also. The car's value drops like HELL in the first year. If you want one of these, I suggest looking for a used. I've seen used 2001 TT roadsters with 25k miles for $25,000.
Z - need I say more?
Beetle - C'mon now... If any males own this one, I think they should cut off thier (you know what)... J/K! Hmm... Small and cutesy, if that's what you like. But NO WAY for me!
TT - Overpriced and looks too much like a beetle. Just look at KBB also. The car's value drops like HELL in the first year. If you want one of these, I suggest looking for a used. I've seen used 2001 TT roadsters with 25k miles for $25,000.
Z - need I say more?
07-23-2002, 02:13 AM
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Originally posted by christurismohk
if i am getting a car for 24k, IMO, hands down on the subaru impreza WRX!!
if i am getting a car for 24k, IMO, hands down on the subaru impreza WRX!!
Why not just get a Hyundai and put a blower on it?
Out of those listed, the only one that's even worth considering is the TT. But only if you get it w/ AWD, which pushes its price well over $40k. And it's still quite girlie looking.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ........
07-23-2002, 02:27 AM
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The WRX is gotta be the most overrated car, last week at the rtrack two guys couldn't even get it to break 16.0s ET, just for your info a '91 Sentra SE-R with intake, exhaust and headers was doin 15.7s. 
07-23-2002, 02:27 AM
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The WRX is gotta be the most overrated car, last week at the track two guys couldn't even get it to break 16.0s ET, just for your info a '91 Sentra SE-R with intake, exhaust and headers was doin 15.7s.
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07-23-2002, 03:16 AM
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my sister-in-law has the benz. while its nice enough, by the time she got it optioned half-way decent it was almost 40k. She should have bought a BMW.
Have you considered a 325i? Rear drive, plenty of power. How about IS300, same reasons. If you want to save money, consider the WRX and RSX, but for head turning, handling, wow-factor and power, you can't beat the Z, especially for the price.
Personally, I think of the MB, TT, and Beetle as girls cars.
btw according to "Car", "the Japanese coupe has seats trimmed in fabric, in-cab surfaces made of high-quality VW-inspured plastics, and no digital disturbances bar 3 small alphanumeric displays." Don't knock the interior til you can see it for yourself.
Have you considered a 325i? Rear drive, plenty of power. How about IS300, same reasons. If you want to save money, consider the WRX and RSX, but for head turning, handling, wow-factor and power, you can't beat the Z, especially for the price.
Personally, I think of the MB, TT, and Beetle as girls cars.
btw according to "Car", "the Japanese coupe has seats trimmed in fabric, in-cab surfaces made of high-quality VW-inspured plastics, and no digital disturbances bar 3 small alphanumeric displays." Don't knock the interior til you can see it for yourself.
07-23-2002, 03:28 AM
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Power to weight ratio: That things weighs something like 3300 lbs, and has 180 hp. 18.3 lbs / hp. That is WEAK. Bleh. The only reason it costs so much is the emblem on the hood.
07-23-2002, 03:45 AM
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if i wanted a 26k car i would go wid the RSX-S. have u guyz seen that cars interior? i mean... damn! but if i wanted speed theres nuttin better for under 30k den the wrx!
07-23-2002, 03:48 AM
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Your 24, get a fun car. The only fun cars on your list are the Z and the TT. BUT don't get the TT, i fyour desperate for a back seat get the G35 coupe. I would still get the Z though, you don't know what's gonna happen in five years, if your wife has a car, you can use it to carry the kids, if and when they arrive. My $.02.
07-23-2002, 03:55 AM
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Can't belive peeps hating on the WRX. That car is most def. NOT overrated. STOCK, that car will beat any 24K car made. PERIOD. And the mod. potential is almost unlimited. I am getting (hopefully) a Daytona Blue Z, Enthus. My little brother just got a Silver WRX, car is sick (for those who think sick is bad please see my post re: 19" wheels 
) Now, it is pretty damn ugly on both the inside and the outside, unless you get custom interior, but it will out handle just about anything. AND the idiot that was getting 16's in the quater, obviously he can't drive or launch his car.
) Now, it is pretty damn ugly on both the inside and the outside, unless you get custom interior, but it will out handle just about anything. AND the idiot that was getting 16's in the quater, obviously he can't drive or launch his car.
07-23-2002, 04:06 AM
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First off...Those C-class MB's are the low class bombs of mercedes line...Do not get a MB unless it's one of the M-series.
The Audi is OK but for the price you can get a Touring or Track model fully loaded and with more horses to boot.
A VW Bug...Don't ever bring up a bug and compare it to the Z. It's cheap and thats your only plus....
Final thought....The only way any of these car will keep up with a Z is if it's towing them. You've made your point about the interior and so has all these other car magazines about Nissans in general. For a 24 year old I'm amazed that performance isn't the major point for these comparisons. I say get the Z and keep it forever...
The Audi is OK but for the price you can get a Touring or Track model fully loaded and with more horses to boot.
A VW Bug...Don't ever bring up a bug and compare it to the Z. It's cheap and thats your only plus....
Final thought....The only way any of these car will keep up with a Z is if it's towing them. You've made your point about the interior and so has all these other car magazines about Nissans in general. For a 24 year old I'm amazed that performance isn't the major point for these comparisons. I say get the Z and keep it forever...
07-23-2002, 04:57 AM
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Re: Comparisons; 350Z, Beetle Turbo S, Audi TT, and a MB Sports Coupe
Originally posted by brownkevin5
I was hoping you could provide some alternative
opinions here to help me make a decision. I am
considering the following cars:
350z Performance ~ $30K
225 AudiTT ~ $36K
Beetle Turbo S ~ $24K
MB C-Class Sports Coupe ~ $27K
What each of these cars has in common is safety
including; ESP/VDS, Traction Control,
frontal/side/curtain airbags, and some form of
Brake assist. This is important to me, as I want
to make sure my family and myself have the best
chance in an accident.
Now, which car appeals to my emotions most, either
the 350Z or the TT. Both are beautiful cars on the
exterior, the Z is faster but probably the same
on the twisties. I've seen the Z interior in
person, and It's my opinion that is of the lowest
quality of the four cars above. This bothers me a
bit since I'll spend most of my time inside the
car.
Ok, so price is also a consideration. For 24K I
can get the safety in the bug, but it's a little
too trendy (inside and out) for me. (24yo married
male). Now consider the MB sports coupe, the
interior is great, very nice and nothing feels
like it's going to break, ever. Yes, the exterior
rear end is ulgy and the twisties won't be as fun.
But it has a back seat which could be a problem 5
years from now if we want a family... I also like
the fact that MB includes all safety features
standard even on their low end model at $25K. I'm
a little less comfortable with nissan making
side/curtian air bags "optional". Japanese car
makers don't seem to make this their first
concern. (Note to ZISME, please pass this up the
food chain!)
So I'm caught between price, functionality and the
fun factor in driving. What's your opinion, did
you consider any of the points I brought up in
purchasing a Z? Thoughts?
Thanks for your input!
I was hoping you could provide some alternative
opinions here to help me make a decision. I am
considering the following cars:
350z Performance ~ $30K
225 AudiTT ~ $36K
Beetle Turbo S ~ $24K
MB C-Class Sports Coupe ~ $27K
What each of these cars has in common is safety
including; ESP/VDS, Traction Control,
frontal/side/curtain airbags, and some form of
Brake assist. This is important to me, as I want
to make sure my family and myself have the best
chance in an accident.
Now, which car appeals to my emotions most, either
the 350Z or the TT. Both are beautiful cars on the
exterior, the Z is faster but probably the same
on the twisties. I've seen the Z interior in
person, and It's my opinion that is of the lowest
quality of the four cars above. This bothers me a
bit since I'll spend most of my time inside the
car.
Ok, so price is also a consideration. For 24K I
can get the safety in the bug, but it's a little
too trendy (inside and out) for me. (24yo married
male). Now consider the MB sports coupe, the
interior is great, very nice and nothing feels
like it's going to break, ever. Yes, the exterior
rear end is ulgy and the twisties won't be as fun.
But it has a back seat which could be a problem 5
years from now if we want a family... I also like
the fact that MB includes all safety features
standard even on their low end model at $25K. I'm
a little less comfortable with nissan making
side/curtian air bags "optional". Japanese car
makers don't seem to make this their first
concern. (Note to ZISME, please pass this up the
food chain!)
So I'm caught between price, functionality and the
fun factor in driving. What's your opinion, did
you consider any of the points I brought up in
purchasing a Z? Thoughts?
Thanks for your input!
The Merc is a down-market attempt by Daimler-Mercedes to cash in on the sports coupe revival. It is not a very good performer and I have lost all respect in the last few years for Mercedes quality control;
The Beetle is a caricature of a classic design, entry level sedan with very serious problems with crosswinds. Lousy aerodynamics cutesy label;
The Audi is a good car but quality issues are present, and deaths in Europe at high speeds prompted a change in the rear suspension and the addition of a rear wing which adds minimal, if any, pizzazz to an attractive car. Followup reports from mag testers about how the car felt and drove after the production changes has been negative, not the same car as first introduced, drivability seriously compromised; and
that leaves the Z to consider; terrific shape/styling, proven and enhanced powertrain, spartan interior like the original Z, and with a bit of a raw edge to it from what I can glean from the reviews, also like the original 240,but thoroughly modern in all its componetry. Every review has praised the seats, they are different from one another, the driver's seat is more heavily bolstered than the passenger seat to aid stability in cornering and the passenger seat is comfort-oriented. I could continue to list the Z's attributes, but you are spending the money. The other cars are not even close to what I want in a sports car and I've ordered an automatic trans with my Z. If you want to profile, get one of the other cars. The Z is my choice and I would never consider the other 3.
Boomer--You asked.
BR/FR/AT
P.S. Buy the side airbags, period.
Last edited by Boomer; 07-23-2002 at 05:08 AM.
07-23-2002, 05:06 AM
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My wife has a Turbo Beetle. While it's a decent car to get around in and fun to drive (in a go cart sorta way) it's no comparison to even the Base Z. The Turbo S was a huge disappointment to most Beetle enthusiast who were hoping for something closer to the RSi concept from back in '99. The RSi was eventually produced with a Turbo V6, AWD, and 6 speed but it cost 80 grand and was only sold in Germany (less than a 1000 built). The Ford Focus SVT is a much better car to compare with the Turbo S and it is a superior car for less money. If you wait a few months, Dodge will offer the Neon SRT4 which is being billed as the worlds fastest car for under $20,000. Neons don't have great fit and finish but they handle well for there price level and the SRT4 will definitly have bang for the buck.
The Audi TT is built on the same chassis as the Beetle, Golf, and Jetta. My wife calls it a stepped on Beetle. Personally I like the look of it. The base TT has the same engine as the Beetle Turbo S but also has a more powerful 210ish HP version. The AWD helps it alot IMO but I think the G35 sedan was just a little less manuverable (I haven't driven a Z yet) even though it weighs more and is bigger. The TTs greatest asset is it's interior. There is no faux metal in there. That is all 100% real brushed alluminum used for the interior trim. The TT (and designer J Mays) started the trend of extensive use metal surfaces in cars for the late 90s. The TT also had outstanding high quality leather on its seating surfaces. It's a nice car but the Z has better performance and a better price.
I have to agree with most everyone here about the C-Coupe. It's quality record has been tarnished by poor fit and finish. Repair bills for this car are going to be high too because of that Benz name. The rear end just doesn't fit with the rest of the car. I don't know what MB's designers were thinking when attaching an avante gard back end to a much more conservative front end. Performance is an issue too. While you get a 6 speed, you can only get the 4 banger for this car. If MB had offered the V6 they would have had a much better car. IMO, the Chysler Crossfire coming out early next year will be a superior car.
From this group of cars, there is no doubt that the Z is superior in performance, bang for the buck, and arguably styling (you can make a legit case for the TT IMO).
The Audi TT is built on the same chassis as the Beetle, Golf, and Jetta. My wife calls it a stepped on Beetle. Personally I like the look of it. The base TT has the same engine as the Beetle Turbo S but also has a more powerful 210ish HP version. The AWD helps it alot IMO but I think the G35 sedan was just a little less manuverable (I haven't driven a Z yet) even though it weighs more and is bigger. The TTs greatest asset is it's interior. There is no faux metal in there. That is all 100% real brushed alluminum used for the interior trim. The TT (and designer J Mays) started the trend of extensive use metal surfaces in cars for the late 90s. The TT also had outstanding high quality leather on its seating surfaces. It's a nice car but the Z has better performance and a better price.
I have to agree with most everyone here about the C-Coupe. It's quality record has been tarnished by poor fit and finish. Repair bills for this car are going to be high too because of that Benz name. The rear end just doesn't fit with the rest of the car. I don't know what MB's designers were thinking when attaching an avante gard back end to a much more conservative front end. Performance is an issue too. While you get a 6 speed, you can only get the 4 banger for this car. If MB had offered the V6 they would have had a much better car. IMO, the Chysler Crossfire coming out early next year will be a superior car.
From this group of cars, there is no doubt that the Z is superior in performance, bang for the buck, and arguably styling (you can make a legit case for the TT IMO).
07-23-2002, 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by J Ritt
Power to weight ratio: That things weighs something like 3300 lbs, and has 180 hp. 18.3 lbs / hp. That is WEAK. Bleh. The only reason it costs so much is the emblem on the hood.
Power to weight ratio: That things weighs something like 3300 lbs, and has 180 hp. 18.3 lbs / hp. That is WEAK. Bleh. The only reason it costs so much is the emblem on the hood.
That thing will outhandle and flat out outperform anything he listed with the exception of the Z
If you wanna do German but cannot do Porsche, BMW is the only way to go.Just like if you're going Japanese, Nissan is the one stop to make.
Last edited by NUJOYZ; 07-23-2002 at 05:22 AM.
07-23-2002, 05:32 AM
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07-23-2002, 06:00 AM
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Point one all the cars you listed are either 2+2 or 4 seats except the Z. Can you live with 2 seats and 6 cubic feet? I owned a Z3 and a long weekend was all it was good for but for normal driving it is fine.
point 2. I think the audi and the Z are close in weight, the beetle is lighter. I'm not sure about the MB, but lighter cars are not as safe as heavy cars. I was thinking about getting a Mini but was scared of its low curb weight. My rule of thumb is if you are looking for safe than look over 3000 pounds. In this regard the Z's portlyness is an advantage.
point 3. If you are looking at the audi than only the quatro will do, why else bother with a tt unless you want a quatro. Now if you are willing to spend $36K, than you must also look at the BMW 325/330. I would go BMW if I were going german. The 330 Ci is one of the best cars sold today.
point 4. If you can live with the Z's 2-seats, and you are looking for performance, than it is the clear winner. It will eat the other cars for lunch. You may think the tt will be close in the twisties, but I am sure with a skilled driver the Z will walk away. Now with an unskilled driver, the quatro may be some benifet, but I plan on taking some driving classes so I can better use the Z to it's full potential.
point 5. The beetle and tt being turbos can be computer chipped to improve boost and thus HP. But this may void the warranty, and may harm the engine. If it were such a great thing don't you think the factory would do it themselves?
Bottom line for me it seems to be a choice between the Z (track)and the 330 Ci. I would take either one, but the Z has a nice price advantage. If you are looking at the performance Z the price difference is even greater.
point 2. I think the audi and the Z are close in weight, the beetle is lighter. I'm not sure about the MB, but lighter cars are not as safe as heavy cars. I was thinking about getting a Mini but was scared of its low curb weight. My rule of thumb is if you are looking for safe than look over 3000 pounds. In this regard the Z's portlyness is an advantage.
point 3. If you are looking at the audi than only the quatro will do, why else bother with a tt unless you want a quatro. Now if you are willing to spend $36K, than you must also look at the BMW 325/330. I would go BMW if I were going german. The 330 Ci is one of the best cars sold today.
point 4. If you can live with the Z's 2-seats, and you are looking for performance, than it is the clear winner. It will eat the other cars for lunch. You may think the tt will be close in the twisties, but I am sure with a skilled driver the Z will walk away. Now with an unskilled driver, the quatro may be some benifet, but I plan on taking some driving classes so I can better use the Z to it's full potential.
point 5. The beetle and tt being turbos can be computer chipped to improve boost and thus HP. But this may void the warranty, and may harm the engine. If it were such a great thing don't you think the factory would do it themselves?
Bottom line for me it seems to be a choice between the Z (track)and the 330 Ci. I would take either one, but the Z has a nice price advantage. If you are looking at the performance Z the price difference is even greater.
07-23-2002, 07:24 AM
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The WRX is gotta be the most overrated car, last week at the track two guys couldn't even get it to break 16.0s ET, just for your info a '91 Sentra SE-R with intake, exhaust and headers was doin 15.7s.
I think the same about the S2000s being overrated, 'specially for the price. I was at the track north of Orlando last weekend, and the best run by a S2k was 14.6, and this was achieved by dumping the clutch at 5 grand. I see the subes lower than that frequently. They are ugly, though. If it wasn't for the odd look, I probably would have one.
I have gone through the same decision process, but with different cars. I am not an old-time Z enthusiast, I was just looking for a sports car for less than 30k. When I balanced performance, looks, percieved quality of interior, exterior, and drivetrain, I ended up with the Z being the choice for me. For the price of a TT, I would rather have a vette. For the price of the beetle, I could get a mustang or an MR2.
The mercedes has caught my eye, though. If you stay off the options, it is fairly reasonable. You might wait to check out the G35 coupe. I work with a guy who has the sedan, and he loves it.
Good luck with your decision!
07-23-2002, 08:10 AM
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what kind of advice were you expecting
You do realize that this is a Z forum and no one is going to tell you to get any of the cars you listed over the Z. In regards to your other choices they seem a tad bit quirky with the exception of the tt, but to each his own. In the end what do you want the car for? None of those are ideal for kids at all.
Don't fool yourself, 2+2 means 2 seats with 16 inches of wasted space that could be used for leg room for the driver. My sister in law has tt quatro and there is no reason to even have the backseat, don't let that be a deciding factor ( her 7 pound dog barely fits back there).It is a nice car but dollar for dollar there is no reason to choose it over the Z unless you like the name brand.
The beetle is not even in the same league or class for that matter. If you like it great buy it and be happy, you can get a used one for $17K with almost no miles, don't buy a new one, but if you want kids to be comfrotable buy a passat.
As for the MB, all your are getting is a bottom of the line car. It is like the boxster to a 911. At the end of the day yes you own a MB but to everyone you maybe trying to impress is still the cheap one. And dollar for dollar its nothing to write home about.
But hey you are the one that has to buy the car and be happy, so get what you want. My wife and I may have kids someday thats why I have an xterra, and if the day comes when I must put my family before my Z then consider it sold and nissan thanks for the fun and memories.
Don't fool yourself, 2+2 means 2 seats with 16 inches of wasted space that could be used for leg room for the driver. My sister in law has tt quatro and there is no reason to even have the backseat, don't let that be a deciding factor ( her 7 pound dog barely fits back there).It is a nice car but dollar for dollar there is no reason to choose it over the Z unless you like the name brand.
The beetle is not even in the same league or class for that matter. If you like it great buy it and be happy, you can get a used one for $17K with almost no miles, don't buy a new one, but if you want kids to be comfrotable buy a passat.
As for the MB, all your are getting is a bottom of the line car. It is like the boxster to a 911. At the end of the day yes you own a MB but to everyone you maybe trying to impress is still the cheap one. And dollar for dollar its nothing to write home about.
But hey you are the one that has to buy the car and be happy, so get what you want. My wife and I may have kids someday thats why I have an xterra, and if the day comes when I must put my family before my Z then consider it sold and nissan thanks for the fun and memories.