What is Grey Market?
03-14-2007, 12:24 PM
#101
Master
iTrader: (65)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,527
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by cubu
when was this 'culture' yours to dictate what happens or what good or bad for it? maybe some of us want change with lower prices and more JDM parts, its all of the sudden negative when you are losing out or not as much a part of selling stuff to the consumer, the fact of the matter is that some else will replace you, things change, business changes, cultures change, if you are not a go getter, one that makes things happen when you face adversity, you shouldn't be in business, why isn't grey market illegal if it is the Antichrist? you ever think that some of us don't care or want to be a part of the 'culture' you want to save? i mean the culture that is putting money in your pocket, now why would we go out of our way and spend our money on that? will the 'culture' die and be reduced to a bunch of hoodlums and thugs if grey market doesn't end? should we all stop selling and using items not meant for the US market, btw don't you guys sell JDM nismo parts? or is that a out of sight out of mind thing, cause i still think i have the PM from you telling me that you can get those parts just that you can't post it on your site? where does the hypocrisy end?
hmmm, we might as well take it a step further and just stop buying imported stuff, and drive Mexican built American cars and other products to support our country for the common good, but I don't see picketers and demonstrations parading in front of your shop for selling nothing but japanese products, where 's the loyalty to your own country man? you are pouring US citizens' money into the lap of the Japanese for a cut of it. of course i don't feel this way but the point is others haven't gone to the extreme you have because you don't agree with their point of view, its called being naive, selfish, and narrow minded
Gruppe-S is a sponsor and vendor on this forums just like you are, he paid his fees just like you, and isn't doing anything illegal, but to parade this thread and whining about things to hurt his business is low, you think that just because we always give you guys props and praise(i will no more) that your word is gold? you seem to try to take advantage of that fact for your own personal gain at the expense of others, i don't see him hating on you in any way shape or form, and he is a better man than both of us for not mentioning the obvious
btw how much are JDM nismo sides anyway? pm me a price shipped to 75006 plz
hmmm, we might as well take it a step further and just stop buying imported stuff, and drive Mexican built American cars and other products to support our country for the common good, but I don't see picketers and demonstrations parading in front of your shop for selling nothing but japanese products, where 's the loyalty to your own country man? you are pouring US citizens' money into the lap of the Japanese for a cut of it. of course i don't feel this way but the point is others haven't gone to the extreme you have because you don't agree with their point of view, its called being naive, selfish, and narrow minded
Gruppe-S is a sponsor and vendor on this forums just like you are, he paid his fees just like you, and isn't doing anything illegal, but to parade this thread and whining about things to hurt his business is low, you think that just because we always give you guys props and praise(i will no more) that your word is gold? you seem to try to take advantage of that fact for your own personal gain at the expense of others, i don't see him hating on you in any way shape or form, and he is a better man than both of us for not mentioning the obvious
btw how much are JDM nismo sides anyway? pm me a price shipped to 75006 plz
Really it come down to this.. If you cut out the middle man then there will be no one doing R & D on any products, which mean you will not know if the parts you are getting will fit or not. Japanese parts don't aways have the same spec as a us model car, this is for Performance Parts wise..
03-14-2007, 12:27 PM
#102
Originally Posted by redlude97
Not exactly, becuase there are still middlemen and grey marketers go around them. If there were no middlemen left, most companies would become more inconsistent in having inventory and pricing because the manufacturers would have to ship and distribute to many more locations, and when this is occuring overseas, the problem becomes compounded. The point is, middlemen make the market more stable in both pricing and availability because the manufacturer only has to ship to a select few, and deal with issues directly from the distributers, not individual resellers. Ideally, there would be no need for middlemen if manufacturers were superefficient and had the manpower to deal with shipping to a larger group of companies, but in turn, that cost for the extra manpower and infrastucture at the manufacterer would just lead to higher costs past along to all the distributers, and then prices would just rise again. The bottom line is manufacturers want to make a certain amount of profit on an item, and if you shift the burden of distribution and dealing with more companies, they'll just increase wholesale costs to offset their costs, so in the end the prices will be the same. So people who want lower prices should actually be encouraging the use of middlemen, so that some companies can bypass them for a lower price, not to get rid of all of them in general
True, but I think the reality is many of the middleman are vastly inefficient. For example if a wheel company were to setup a US distributor here in the states, but the US distributor could only sell 1 set of wheels every month. Now after you add in rent, employee payroll, and the other costs of running a business, your set of wheels costs $15,000 instead of the $1000 it cost in Japan.
The reality is there ARE well setup and efficient JDM companies that don't have a huge gray market problem. Tein is another example!
Gary
Gruppe-S
03-14-2007, 12:28 PM
#103
Originally Posted by Volk350Z
Damm your post seem more funny then anything..
Really it come down to this.. If you cut out the middle man then there will be no one doing R & D on any products, which mean you will not know if the parts you are getting will fit or not. Japanese parts don't aways have the same spec as a us model car, this is for Performance Parts wise..
Really it come down to this.. If you cut out the middle man then there will be no one doing R & D on any products, which mean you will not know if the parts you are getting will fit or not. Japanese parts don't aways have the same spec as a us model car, this is for Performance Parts wise..
Gary
Gruppe-S
03-14-2007, 12:35 PM
#104
Master
iTrader: (65)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,527
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Gruppe-S
Interesting comment. I'm curious (honest question here) does your company, Mackin / Wheelmate, pay any Research and Development costs to Yokohama or Rays Engineering?
Gary
Gruppe-S
Gary
Gruppe-S
this is for Performance Parts wise..
03-14-2007, 12:49 PM
#105
Registered User
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SO CALI
Posts: 1,276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Gruppe-S
Interesting comment. I'm curious (honest question here) does your company, Mackin / Wheelmate, pay any Research and Development costs to Yokohama or Rays Engineering?
Gary
Gruppe-S
Gary
Gruppe-S
Regardless if there is an R&D cost or not, there are business costs associated with it. And if you really think about it, Mackin or any official middle man is the one that creates greater demand for a given product because they are putting resources into that specific market. They offer the service, marketing and support for a given product. This is not to say that if that were not to exist, the product wouldnt sell either....this is what adds to the value of the product and the desire for it be purchased.
Any of you take what I say or what has been said here as you like. Its been a while since I have been in the vendor/retailer side, but I have been on the manfuctureur side for years...and I can tell you grey market does have a negative impact. For certain types/sizes of companies or even just types of products, it has different degrees of impact....for everyone in the market..consumer, dealer, so forth.
03-14-2007, 02:01 PM
#106
New Member
iTrader: (21)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 954
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well for the parts that they do pay R&D on we have to buy them don't we, why would we buy grey market aftermarket parts that don't fit, so how are you losing money from that? bringing that up in this thread is pointless, this thread was started because of rims and certain people losing money, and like you posted earlier there are products that we can't get grey market that you will make money on and we have to pay more for.. you see us crying and boohoo'ing about that? whats funny is how some people throw fits and pout when everything isn't in their favor 
lol,i guess my post is pretty funny isn't? its kinda ludracris just like this thread and your posts 
lol,i guess my post is pretty funny isn't? its kinda ludracris just like this thread and your posts
Originally Posted by Volk350Z
Damm your post seem more funny then anything..
Really it come down to this.. If you cut out the middle man then there will be no one doing R & D on any products, which mean you will not know if the parts you are getting will fit or not. Japanese parts don't aways have the same spec as a us model car, this is for Performance Parts wise..
Really it come down to this.. If you cut out the middle man then there will be no one doing R & D on any products, which mean you will not know if the parts you are getting will fit or not. Japanese parts don't aways have the same spec as a us model car, this is for Performance Parts wise..
03-14-2007, 02:10 PM
#107
Registered User
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle/Portland
Posts: 2,754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Gruppe-S
True, but I think the reality is many of the middleman are vastly inefficient. For example if a wheel company were to setup a US distributor here in the states, but the US distributor could only sell 1 set of wheels every month. Now after you add in rent, employee payroll, and the other costs of running a business, your set of wheels costs $15,000 instead of the $1000 it cost in Japan.
The reality is there ARE well setup and efficient JDM companies that don't have a huge gray market problem. Tein is another example!
Gary
Gruppe-S
The reality is there ARE well setup and efficient JDM companies that don't have a huge gray market problem. Tein is another example!
Gary
Gruppe-S
03-14-2007, 02:40 PM
#108
Registered User
iTrader: (42)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: So Cal
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rickdogg
Great post! Definitely falls in the same realm of when I got in to that heated debate about replicas effecting the aftermarket industry. Knowledge and informing consumers is crucial so that those that DO CARE and UNDERSTAND what is going on make their buying decisions with the cards laid out in front of them.
Off-topic...buy authentic! LOL
Off-topic...buy authentic! LOL
Not getting into the debate here, staying WAY out of it, but in concern to replicas, that's a COmPLETELY different issue altogether. Imitiations and knock offs have always been the vice of any manufacturer or vendor...
Replicas for sure affect us in every way no matter if you're the end consumer or the vendor, middleman, manufacturer etc...
03-14-2007, 02:46 PM
#109
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Orl, FL
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wonder if anyone can help, I'm trying to sell my set of TE37 off my S14 but I want to get sticker and valve stem for them before I put them on ebay. I call everyone and even mackin, they all told me I need proof of purchase. I really need these sticker and valve stem but i don't have proof cause i got them from a friend in HK.
any help?
if this is how grey market effect me then I guess I'm not going to do this again.
any help?
if this is how grey market effect me then I guess I'm not going to do this again.
03-14-2007, 02:51 PM
#110
Registered User
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SO CALI
Posts: 1,276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by NismoZ33
I wonder if anyone can help, I'm trying to sell my set of TE37 off my S14 but I want to get sticker and valve stem for them before I put them on ebay. I call everyone and even mackin, they all told me I need proof of purchase. I really need these sticker and valve stem but i don't have proof cause i got them from a friend in HK.
any help?
if this is how grey market effect me then I guess I'm not going to do this again.
any help?
if this is how grey market effect me then I guess I'm not going to do this again.
This is also partially due to replicas....not saying thats yours are...but Im just saying this is how the ill of some can ruin it for the greater all.
03-14-2007, 02:51 PM
#111
New Member
iTrader: (21)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 954
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yet, some of the very ones that are against grey market sell replica's and knockoffs which has a more profound effect on us all, talk about morals...bah this thread is morally wrong
so are JDM Nismo products grey market? isn't selling JDM Nismo products affecting US Nismo's market?
so are JDM Nismo products grey market? isn't selling JDM Nismo products affecting US Nismo's market?
03-14-2007, 02:53 PM
#112
Registered User
iTrader: (42)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: So Cal
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by cubu
yet, some of the very ones that are against grey market sell replica's and knockoffs which has a more profound effect on us all, talk about morals...bah this thread is morally wrong
so are JDM Nismo products grey market? isn't selling JDM Nismo products affecting US Nismo's market?
so are JDM Nismo products grey market? isn't selling JDM Nismo products affecting US Nismo's market?
+1
03-14-2007, 02:54 PM
#113
Sponsor
Performance Nissan
Performance Nissan
Thread Starter
iTrader: (92)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Pasadena/Bay Area
Posts: 6,151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by cubu
yet, some of the very ones that are against grey market sell replica's and knockoffs which has a more profound effect on us all, talk about morals...bah this thread is morally wrong
so are JDM Nismo products grey market? isn't selling JDM Nismo products affecting US Nismo's market?
so are JDM Nismo products grey market? isn't selling JDM Nismo products affecting US Nismo's market?
JDM NISMO products are not grey market as long as they are purchased through NNA. I think you might've missed my post on page 5?
03-14-2007, 03:06 PM
#114
Registered User
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SO CALI
Posts: 1,276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I still think the concept of grey market (or at least the negative tone of grey marketing) is not fully understood.
more clearly it is obtaining/distributing items from outside a given market when there is a official channel already established to obtain, support and service those said given items from within that given market.
more clearly it is obtaining/distributing items from outside a given market when there is a official channel already established to obtain, support and service those said given items from within that given market.
03-14-2007, 03:08 PM
#115
New Member
iTrader: (21)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 954
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you don't sell any nismo wing knockoffs? i don't see as much of the knockoffs on your site anymore but there still are some. if it nothing is wrong with selling JDM nismo parts why isn't it offered on the site? so explain to me what this thread is about, im confused now, first i thought it was about being morally right and paying due where it is owed and you were saying its not about legal or not, but its ok to sell JDM nismo since you are buying it from NNA? you saying it doesn't affect US Nismo in any way?
03-14-2007, 03:21 PM
#116
New Member
iTrader: (21)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 954
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
also, if you can get JDM Nismo stuff from NNA, does that mean i can go out to any Nissan dealership and have them order me the stuff? or do you guys have some sort of advantage over them?
didn't you used to have knock off full kits too?
didn't you used to have knock off full kits too?
ViS Racing Techno R Wing - 350Z
Looking for a cheaper alternative for a JDM NISMO wing for your 350Z? ViS offers a high quality FRP replica wing which has one of the most precise fitment compared to a lot of the other knock off's on the market. Many of the Performance Nissan employees have installed this wing on their personal 350Z's. The authentic U.S NISMO spoiler will not cover the factory holes from your optional OEM NISSAN spoiler but this one will.
Looking for a cheaper alternative for a JDM NISMO wing for your 350Z? ViS offers a high quality FRP replica wing which has one of the most precise fitment compared to a lot of the other knock off's on the market. Many of the Performance Nissan employees have installed this wing on their personal 350Z's. The authentic U.S NISMO spoiler will not cover the factory holes from your optional OEM NISSAN spoiler but this one will.
03-14-2007, 03:22 PM
#117
Vendor - Former Vendor
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Andy@Performance
JDM NISMO products are not grey market as long as they are purchased through NNA. I think you might've missed my post on page 5?
EXAMPLE...
NISMO S-Tune Suspension (As this has been discussed lots before)...
USA PDC NISMO S-Tune Suspension has 1/12K Warranty through NISSAN Dealer...
NISMO "G-Attack" Suspension purchased from Japan has no warranty through NISSAN dealer...
NISSAN R-Tune product have warranty through NISSAN USA Dealer anyway? No...
Will you have a NISSAN dealer standing behind you trying to get you taken care of if your part fails due to manufacturer defect if purchased through that NISSAN Dealer... Yes!
Will you have a NISSAN Dealer standing behind you trying to get you taken care of if your part fails due to manufacturer defect if purchased from a kid with a cell phone in his parents garage? NO!
The main thing with buying parts through USA Distributer ship or JAPANESE or OTHER Distributer ship is the way warranty is taken care of...
If you buy something from "JAPAN PRODUCTS, USA" and the product fails, the USA Distributer will help you out with replacement or repair...
If you buy that same product from "JAPAN PRODUCTS, JAPAN" and the product fails, you have to ship the item back, and wait, and wait, and wait, and get your product back...
In some cases where the "USA" Distributer does not have that specific part instock or can not re-build your coil overs etc... they may have to send that same product overseas to be remaned, rebuilt, or refurbished, repaired or what ever you would like to call it... Just one way you may be involving a USA Distributer middle man...
BUT, most products we are purchasing do not have a warranty since they are sold as "RACE PRODUCTS"...
If you note... All NISMO US and JDM Products are labeled....
This part has been designed and is intended for off-highway application only. The installation of this part on a vehicle intended for use on public streets or highways may violate laws and regulations relating to motor vehicle safety standards or emission regulation. Additionally, this part is sold "AS IS", without warranty of any kind whatsoever, express or implied, (including all warranties of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose). The installation of this part could also void vehicle or other NISSAN Warranty coverage, or result in otherwise covered repairs being excluded from coverage. Refer to an authorized NISSAN dealer or performance specialist for proper installation.
GReddy has something similar listed on all their products as well... They say "Intended for OFF-HIGHWAY use only" etc etc... with no warranty...
Buying product from "Authorized Distributer" helps you as far as the level of customer service you will get (IN SOME CASES NOT ALL!!!! BE VERY AFRAID OF THE KID SELLING OUT OF HIS PARENTS GARAGE WITH A CELL PHONE!!!! ONLINE RESELLERS with a PUBLIC BRICK AND MORTAR shop are generally more trustworty) IF you have a problem with your product or if you would like support on your product...
BUT, if you purchase that part from an authorized US distributer or directly from that company over seas and it has no warranty to begin with... Get it the cheapest way you can...
BUT BUT BUT... Sometimes, getting it from the Cheapest place you can, you wait longer because they generally do not stock the item and act as a middle man as it gets shipped directly from its source... In this case, what happens,,, the buyer calls company A to buy some test pipes, company A orders it from Manufacturer, the manufacturer ships it when their next container is full to save costs, 60-90 days later the part gets to company A, company A ships to customer....
While getting the test pipes from the place that is 10-20% more has it in stock and you get it the next day if you want to pay for next day air shipping....
Buying those test pipes from either company will not have a warranty, be in the same packaging, one purchased from US distrbituer, one from 3rd party...
03-14-2007, 03:24 PM
#118
Vendor - Former Vendor
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by cubu
also, if you can get JDM Nismo stuff from NNA, does that mean i can go out to any Nissan dealership and have them order me the stuff? or do you guys have some sort of advantage over them?
didn't you used to have knock off full kits too?
didn't you used to have knock off full kits too?
JDM NISMO products are not ordered through standard means of ordering NISMO products or OEM Products...
ALL NISSAN dealers have access to USDM NISMO Products and JDM NISMO Products if they purchase through NISSAN MOTORSPORTS USA... NOT all NISSAN DEALERS however take advantage of this or want to bother since the parts have no warranty nor does NISSAN MOTORSPORTS take any returns...
NISSAN DEALER Buys from NISSAN MOTORSPORTS USA, THEY OWN! NON-RETURNABLE! Most parts managers will not go for that!
03-14-2007, 03:34 PM
#120
Vendor - Former Vendor
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by NismoZ33
-isn't Nismo US parts is different from Nismo JDM part right.
-Nismo US parts are from NNA and they don't bring in Nismo JDM parts?
-Nismo US parts are from NNA and they don't bring in Nismo JDM parts?
NISMO S-Tune Suspension: 5300S-RSZ30-US
Sold through NISSAN USA Parts Distribution System. 1/12K Warranty when purchased over the counter, self installed, or dealer installed.
NISMO G-Attack Suspension: 5300S-RSZ30
Same part, sold to NISMO JAPAN. Not warrantied through NISSAN USA Dealer.
NISMO Radiator Cap: 21430-RS012
Same part number USA and JAPAN...
Neither have a warranty... Both genuine NISMO Products...
But does not affect warranty with the US "S-Tune" labeling...
Is a dealer going to question your warranty due to a $40 part failing? Is there a way they can tell?