What is Grey Market?
03-14-2007, 03:44 PM
#121
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Originally Posted by Andy@Performance
JDM NISMO products are not grey market as long as they are purchased through NNA. I think you might've missed my post on page 5?
03-14-2007, 03:51 PM
#122
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Technically, the "JDM NISMO" Product being purchased from NNA is not really a "JDM" Product... It may be "Manufactured" there and INTENDED for USA Market (like the NISMO S-Tune Suspension talked about before)...
But, if that product were intended only for the Japanese market and Japanese market only... It can not be purchased through NNA...
It may beable to be purchased through NISSAN MOTORSPORTS but will not carry the same manufacturers warranty that a "USDM S-TUNE" Product will carry...
But remember... only a few NISMO products have a Warranty of any kind... Only S-Tune, Shift *****, S-Tune Suspension, Sway Bars, Shift *****, Wheels, and well... thats about it...
But, if that product were intended only for the Japanese market and Japanese market only... It can not be purchased through NNA...
It may beable to be purchased through NISSAN MOTORSPORTS but will not carry the same manufacturers warranty that a "USDM S-TUNE" Product will carry...
But remember... only a few NISMO products have a Warranty of any kind... Only S-Tune, Shift *****, S-Tune Suspension, Sway Bars, Shift *****, Wheels, and well... thats about it...
03-14-2007, 03:54 PM
#124
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Also, buying something from overseas through a non-authorized distribution channel, as said before is not illegal, and should not be...
for reference, we here at Riv. Infinit are not supportive of gray markets, as we deal (as will always) with only authorized supply chians. but to add more educational information to a post who's intent is to be educational in nature...............
and in all respect, authorized channels or not, the price of a product (to be profitable to the seller) cannot drop below a certain point regardless of where you get it... If joe shmoe brings in a bunch of BRAND NEW parts from japan, (not fakes, real, legit ones), but he's not "recognized" as an authorized re-seller, why is that wrong>? it's competition. Once a product is purchased the owner can do whatever they want with it at that point, re-sell it if they wish... unless a contract is signed, in which case I doubt that any foreign company makes joe shmoe sign a contract for each small time part they buy...
Don't get me wrong, I hate it when I can't be competetive in price with someone else, due to pricing barriers, but such is business...
It's the same part non-the-less, since we're not talking about knock offs or immitations....
If I had means to go direct to Japan to get parts, and offer them at cheaper prices, why wouldn't I? It helps the consumer in the end. This is the mindset that is at issue here. BUT THIS MINDSET is only there if authorized supply chains are insuffient for whatever reason. Supply chains should not allow prices to be much different IMO from going around the auth. supply chain, if there's a drastic price difference, then there is a problem...
with regard to warranty:
if you want a warranty, buy from an authorized dealer, local or foreign...
if you want it cheaper, and don't care, buy it from joe schmoe. Same product, just different end results with customer services after the fact...
in regards to global economies:
gray markets are results of a practice called arbitrage, which in summary is the buying and selling of goods from one market where the money is weaker (cheaper) to one where the money is stronger. buying it cheap and selling it for more. Eventually, both markets even out, and will flip-flop in strength.
MORAL ISSUES:
is it moral to participate in arbitrage? the debate is still out, and i'm not going to argue this point at all. eveyone can make up their own mind.
is it illegal? no. does it effect markets and economies? yes. sometimes for the better sometimes not. to say that gray markets are bad is to argue against the basis of capitalism. From here, the issue becomes simply philosphical, and I get enough business philosphy in my MBA classes, so i'm not bringing up all the theories associated with arbitrage and gray markets....
the end result:
do you as a consumer WANT CHEAPER PRICES ON THE SAME GOODS?
and if so, are you willing to sacrafice some security (in regards to customer service etc) IF SOMETHING SHOULD go wrong with the product down the road?
for reference, we here at Riv. Infinit are not supportive of gray markets, as we deal (as will always) with only authorized supply chians. but to add more educational information to a post who's intent is to be educational in nature...............
and in all respect, authorized channels or not, the price of a product (to be profitable to the seller) cannot drop below a certain point regardless of where you get it... If joe shmoe brings in a bunch of BRAND NEW parts from japan, (not fakes, real, legit ones), but he's not "recognized" as an authorized re-seller, why is that wrong>? it's competition. Once a product is purchased the owner can do whatever they want with it at that point, re-sell it if they wish... unless a contract is signed, in which case I doubt that any foreign company makes joe shmoe sign a contract for each small time part they buy...
Don't get me wrong, I hate it when I can't be competetive in price with someone else, due to pricing barriers, but such is business...
It's the same part non-the-less, since we're not talking about knock offs or immitations....
If I had means to go direct to Japan to get parts, and offer them at cheaper prices, why wouldn't I? It helps the consumer in the end. This is the mindset that is at issue here. BUT THIS MINDSET is only there if authorized supply chains are insuffient for whatever reason. Supply chains should not allow prices to be much different IMO from going around the auth. supply chain, if there's a drastic price difference, then there is a problem...
with regard to warranty:
if you want a warranty, buy from an authorized dealer, local or foreign...
if you want it cheaper, and don't care, buy it from joe schmoe. Same product, just different end results with customer services after the fact...
in regards to global economies:
gray markets are results of a practice called arbitrage, which in summary is the buying and selling of goods from one market where the money is weaker (cheaper) to one where the money is stronger. buying it cheap and selling it for more. Eventually, both markets even out, and will flip-flop in strength.
MORAL ISSUES:
is it moral to participate in arbitrage? the debate is still out, and i'm not going to argue this point at all. eveyone can make up their own mind.
is it illegal? no. does it effect markets and economies? yes. sometimes for the better sometimes not. to say that gray markets are bad is to argue against the basis of capitalism. From here, the issue becomes simply philosphical, and I get enough business philosphy in my MBA classes, so i'm not bringing up all the theories associated with arbitrage and gray markets....
the end result:
do you as a consumer WANT CHEAPER PRICES ON THE SAME GOODS?
and if so, are you willing to sacrafice some security (in regards to customer service etc) IF SOMETHING SHOULD go wrong with the product down the road?
Last edited by World Famous Z; 03-15-2007 at 02:01 PM.
03-14-2007, 04:27 PM
#125
Originally Posted by redlude97
I would say that partly falls on the particular distributer and partly on the manufacturer. Some companies are just inefficient in general in regards to production and scheduling. If you think its bad now, think about what would happen if those companies had to take on the extra burden of processing hundreds of extra individual orders. Like I said, ideally, either really efficient middlemen would make getting products the same no matter the method, or no middlemen would be needed at all if the companies were structured to meet the processing needs of individual companies. but we don't live in a perfect world, so thats why greymarketers exist, the more efficient a company becomes, the more the prices equalize
Keeping in mind that grey market is only possible when there is a substantial price difference between two different regions.
Cheers,
Gary
Gruppe-S
03-14-2007, 04:28 PM
#127
Originally Posted by Volk350Z
well did you not finish reading my post?? I think i clearly wrote this
this is for Performance Parts wise..
this is for Performance Parts wise..
Thanks,
Gary
Gruppe-S
03-14-2007, 04:31 PM
#128
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Originally Posted by Cloud
some parts never had warranty to begin with though...if i recall correctly... aftermarkte clutches don't.... don't quote me on that though.
most aftermarket parts do not have warranty...
especially wear and tear items...
A company like STOP TECH for example... Their brake kits are sold as offraod use only... But if you have a problem... They do everything possible to help out...
As far as "______" they say, "It states in the literature that it may not work, you are on your own..."
03-14-2007, 04:49 PM
#129
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Originally Posted by cubu
also, if you can get JDM Nismo stuff from NNA, does that mean i can go out to any Nissan dealership and have them order me the stuff? or do you guys have some sort of advantage over them?
didn't you used to have knock off full kits too?
didn't you used to have knock off full kits too?
NISSAN Motorsports, NISMO USA, they're are all under NNA. You can go to your local dealer and order the same parts that we offer but that is at the dealers discretion. Not all dealers even know about NNA ofering these types of products. Knock off body kits were offered on our previous site, on the new site, we have minimized replica parts. You say that JDM NISMO/NISSAN parts are not offered on our website, that is entirely inaccurate. We offer lots of JDM NISMO/NISSAN products that are all brought in through NNA. Why would it affect NNA in anyway when we are purchasing it through them? Me going through NNA is the appropriate way of obtaining JDM NISMO/NISSAN products.
03-14-2007, 07:36 PM
#131
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man, making fun of less fortunate shops 
not everyone can afford to have a nice fancy shop, yet. you gotta start somewhere don't you? least they're trying, how you can knock someone for trying to make a decent living is beyond me
and about the JDM Nismo stuff, sorry for not being clearer, i was referring to the body kit
some of you guys are just posting nothing but justifications, double standards, contradictions, cover-ups, hypocrisies, denial, and misdirection, its plain and simple that you guys are losing money, you can't do anything about it, it drives you so crazy and you work yourself up to the point that steam comes out of your ears, you get all bug eyed, and want to yank your short and curlies out, so you have at a futile attempt to sway consumers not to buy from anyone else but you by saying its immoral and what not, then you catch yourself on the same side of the fence in ways, grey market this grey market that, psshhh
not everyone can afford to have a nice fancy shop, yet. you gotta start somewhere don't you? least they're trying, how you can knock someone for trying to make a decent living is beyond meand about the JDM Nismo stuff, sorry for not being clearer, i was referring to the body kit
some of you guys are just posting nothing but justifications, double standards, contradictions, cover-ups, hypocrisies, denial, and misdirection, its plain and simple that you guys are losing money, you can't do anything about it, it drives you so crazy and you work yourself up to the point that steam comes out of your ears, you get all bug eyed, and want to yank your short and curlies out, so you have at a futile attempt to sway consumers not to buy from anyone else but you by saying its immoral and what not, then you catch yourself on the same side of the fence in ways, grey market this grey market that, psshhh
03-14-2007, 08:17 PM
#132
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Most people dont care where the part comes from... as long as it is real... as long as it makes them happy...
If you want to sell someone something and sell it at a normal price... give them something that makes it worth while...
There is always a TWEETER store...
You can always go to Circuit City and get it less...
Then you can go to FRY's and get it less...
Then you can go to Crazy Gidians and get it less...
Then you can get it from the guy who works at the manufacturer or distributer...
Then you can get it after it falls off the truck...
There is always somewhere to get something for less...
Thats business... Deal with it!
Even when things are KNOWN to be stolen people still buy it... I can think of 50+ people from this forum with stolen NISMO Exhaust but they were happy buying them... Im glad they didnt get screwed out of their money... As long as they are happy thats what really matters...
If you want to sell someone something and sell it at a normal price... give them something that makes it worth while...
There is always a TWEETER store...
You can always go to Circuit City and get it less...
Then you can go to FRY's and get it less...
Then you can go to Crazy Gidians and get it less...
Then you can get it from the guy who works at the manufacturer or distributer...
Then you can get it after it falls off the truck...
There is always somewhere to get something for less...
Thats business... Deal with it!
Even when things are KNOWN to be stolen people still buy it... I can think of 50+ people from this forum with stolen NISMO Exhaust but they were happy buying them... Im glad they didnt get screwed out of their money... As long as they are happy thats what really matters...
03-14-2007, 08:19 PM
#133
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Originally Posted by cubu
man, making fun of less fortunate shops not everyone can afford to have a nice fancy shop, yet. you gotta start somewhere don't you? least they're trying, how you can knock someone for trying to make a decent living is beyond me
and about the JDM Nismo stuff, sorry for not being clearer, i was referring to the body kit
some of you guys are just posting nothing but justifications, double standards, contradictions, cover-ups, hypocrisies, denial, and misdirection, its plain and simple that you guys are losing money, you can't do anything about it, it drives you so crazy and you work yourself up to the point that steam comes out of your ears, you get all bug eyed, and want to yank your short and curlies out, so you have at a futile attempt to sway consumers not to buy from anyone else but you by saying its immoral and what not, then you catch yourself on the same side of the fence in ways, grey market this grey market that, psshhh
not everyone can afford to have a nice fancy shop, yet. you gotta start somewhere don't you? least they're trying, how you can knock someone for trying to make a decent living is beyond meand about the JDM Nismo stuff, sorry for not being clearer, i was referring to the body kit
some of you guys are just posting nothing but justifications, double standards, contradictions, cover-ups, hypocrisies, denial, and misdirection, its plain and simple that you guys are losing money, you can't do anything about it, it drives you so crazy and you work yourself up to the point that steam comes out of your ears, you get all bug eyed, and want to yank your short and curlies out, so you have at a futile attempt to sway consumers not to buy from anyone else but you by saying its immoral and what not, then you catch yourself on the same side of the fence in ways, grey market this grey market that, psshhh
But literally a kid who bought or got ahold of stolen goods selling them out of his garage onto the net...
There is alot of that going on out there, not so much on the Z product line, but elsewhere its there...
03-14-2007, 08:38 PM
#134
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Jason, i wasn't referring to you, i was responding to this...
Originally Posted by status
......
There's alot of hole in wall shop out there or just selling parts out of there house.
There's alot of hole in wall shop out there or just selling parts out of there house.
03-14-2007, 10:42 PM
#136
My car has no warranty. I could care less if i buy something with no warranty now. As long as it doesnt kill me i dont care. I kept my porsche 928 running from parted out wrecked 928s, i never payed a porsche a dealer for any part. I had a problem with my Z and took it to the dealer and got **** raped. I now trust a dealer or service manager as far as i can throw one. Dealers are only out to make money for themselves. They can act like they support the aftermarket but its all lies when it comes right down to it.
I would rather order from a performance shop over a dealer any day. At least they care about cars making power and looking nice, not just meeting thier monthly quota.
I would rather order from a performance shop over a dealer any day. At least they care about cars making power and looking nice, not just meeting thier monthly quota.
03-14-2007, 11:00 PM
#137
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Originally Posted by Gruppe-S
So then the answer is no? That Mackin / Wheelmate does not contribute monetarily to the R&D costs associated with developing a Rays wheel?
Thanks,
Gary
Gruppe-S
Thanks,
Gary
Gruppe-S
03-14-2007, 11:21 PM
#138
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Originally Posted by cubu
man, making fun of less fortunate shops not everyone can afford to have a nice fancy shop, yet. you gotta start somewhere don't you? least they're trying, how you can knock someone for trying to make a decent living is beyond me
and about the JDM Nismo stuff, sorry for not being clearer, i was referring to the body kit
some of you guys are just posting nothing but justifications, double standards, contradictions, cover-ups, hypocrisies, denial, and misdirection, its plain and simple that you guys are losing money, you can't do anything about it, it drives you so crazy and you work yourself up to the point that steam comes out of your ears, you get all bug eyed, and want to yank your short and curlies out, so you have at a futile attempt to sway consumers not to buy from anyone else but you by saying its immoral and what not, then you catch yourself on the same side of the fence in ways, grey market this grey market that, psshhh
not everyone can afford to have a nice fancy shop, yet. you gotta start somewhere don't you? least they're trying, how you can knock someone for trying to make a decent living is beyond meand about the JDM Nismo stuff, sorry for not being clearer, i was referring to the body kit
some of you guys are just posting nothing but justifications, double standards, contradictions, cover-ups, hypocrisies, denial, and misdirection, its plain and simple that you guys are losing money, you can't do anything about it, it drives you so crazy and you work yourself up to the point that steam comes out of your ears, you get all bug eyed, and want to yank your short and curlies out, so you have at a futile attempt to sway consumers not to buy from anyone else but you by saying its immoral and what not, then you catch yourself on the same side of the fence in ways, grey market this grey market that, psshhh
reading all your reply it seem like you have something aganist Andy, if so talk to him outside the forum this don't look good to anyone even yourself.
I see where you are coming from but you are pretty much doing the same by bring the same thing up over and over again. All you are doing is becoming a post *****
03-15-2007, 12:07 AM
#139
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+1 for not dissing smaller shops or the occasional guy selling out of his garage. as long as they are legit parts, all are welcome to sell IMO. Yay capitalism....
and how many shops started small at one point? there should be no stress or hate between vendors/shops etc.
Stolen goods = no good....
and how many shops started small at one point? there should be no stress or hate between vendors/shops etc.
Stolen goods = no good....
Last edited by World Famous Z; 03-15-2007 at 12:09 AM.
03-15-2007, 01:31 AM
#140
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Originally Posted by NismoZ33
I brought my Nismo wing from Andy and it was 100% JDM Nismo, never had a problem with him before.
reading all your reply it seem like you have something aganist Andy, if so talk to him outside the forum this don't look good to anyone even yourself.
I see where you are coming from but you are pretty much doing the same by bring the same thing up over and over again. All you are doing is becoming a post *****
reading all your reply it seem like you have something aganist Andy, if so talk to him outside the forum this don't look good to anyone even yourself.
I see where you are coming from but you are pretty much doing the same by bring the same thing up over and over again. All you are doing is becoming a post *****