AT vs MT
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AT vs MT
I currently drive a 2001 nissan maxima with an AT. I am just wondering, as far as performance, is there a huge difference in lets say 0-60 times with the 350z with the AT versus the MT? Let me knows thanks 
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Originally Posted by shanki456
I currently drive a 2001 nissan maxima with an AT. I am just wondering, as far as performance, is there a huge difference in lets say 0-60 times with the 350z with the AT versus the MT? Let me knows thanks
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Originally Posted by ceddyluv82
You will always have more drivetrain power loss in the automatic if I recall correctly. The stick will be a bit faster in the hands of someone who knows how to properly shift. You also have 6 gears in the manual and 5 in the automatic version meaning it takes longer to reach the powerbands in each gear with the 5 speed auto. So yes the stick is faster. Hope this helps!
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Originally Posted by ceddyluv82
You will always have more drivetrain power loss in the automatic if I recall correctly. The stick will be a bit faster in the hands of someone who knows how to properly shift. You also have 6 gears in the manual and 5 in the automatic version meaning it takes longer to reach the powerbands in each gear with the 5 speed auto. So yes the stick is faster. Hope this helps!
Wrong!!! I'm not going to say that one tranny is better than the other because it's mostly a matter of preference. The current ATs aren't from 1960. They have been updated since then. Your info needs review.
Pro NASCAR Driver = 0.6-0.8 sec per shift (some of the best manual shifters in the world)
Chances are you are not a pro driver.
DSG is 8ms (Yes, that is milliseconds)
The average human eyeblind is 300ms
Tiptronic S which is very similar to the Z 5AT is less than 200ms. Still way faster than any human can shift.
An unlocked or uncoupled torque converter does have slightly more drivetrain loss due to the hydraulics but it becomes more efficient because it can create more torque to the driveshaft than the engine is outputting due to torque multiplication. A locked or coupled torque converter has no hydraulic loss because it no longer uses hydraulic flow. It uses a mechanical clutch to connect the engine and driveshaft. Also, not all ATs use a torque converter (ie DSG & SMG). Hydraulic loss on a modern AT is almost negligble because unless you have perfect driving form all the time, human inefficiency will make up for the difference.
The reason the MT needs 6 gears vs 5 gears in the AT is because the MT gear ratios are fixed. The AT uses a torque converter. The first three gears have variable gear ratios due to the torque converter being able to torque multiply. Adding a 6th gear is uneccessary because you would just be duplicating a range that it already has.
Last edited by Aggro_Al; Mar 31, 2007 at 11:38 AM.
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I looked at the used inventory of EVERY Nissan dealership in a four state radius. NY NJ CT PA just to find two cars that I liked. I suggest you look at Nissanusa.com and look through states surrounding yours and go to every one of their dealership websites and just search. It will take you about two hours to go through four states worth of inventory. 
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Originally Posted by Aggro_Al
Wrong!!!
Pro NASCAR Driver 0.6-0.8 sec per shift
Chances are you are not a pro driver.
DSG is 8ms (Yes, that is milliseconds)
Tiptronic S which is very similar to the Z 5AT is less than 200ms. Still way faster than any human can shift.
An unlocked or uncoupled AT does have slightly more drivetrain loss due to the hydraulics but it becomes more efficient because it can create more torque to the driveshaft than the engine is outputting due to torque multiplication
Pro NASCAR Driver 0.6-0.8 sec per shift
Chances are you are not a pro driver.
DSG is 8ms (Yes, that is milliseconds)
Tiptronic S which is very similar to the Z 5AT is less than 200ms. Still way faster than any human can shift.
An unlocked or uncoupled AT does have slightly more drivetrain loss due to the hydraulics but it becomes more efficient because it can create more torque to the driveshaft than the engine is outputting due to torque multiplication
I can shift pretty damn fast... and I can tell you that 10 times out of 10 I would rather be in a manual over the automatic because of the ability to use my brain to judge when I need to shift from 5th to 2nd in one shift. A computer won't let you slap three gears down instantly.
Last edited by ceddyluv82; Mar 31, 2007 at 11:24 AM.
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Originally Posted by Aggro_Al
Wrong!!! I'm not going to say that one tranny is better than the other because it's mostly a matter of preference. The current ATs aren't from 1960. They have been updated since then. Your info needs review.
Pro NASCAR Driver = 0.6-0.8 sec per shift (some of the best manual shifters in the world)
Chances are you are not a pro driver.
DSG is 8ms (Yes, that is milliseconds)
The average human eyeblind is 300ms
Tiptronic S which is very similar to the Z 5AT is less than 200ms. Still way faster than any human can shift.
An unlocked or uncoupled torque converter does have slightly more drivetrain loss due to the hydraulics but it becomes more efficient because it can create more torque to the driveshaft than the engine is outputting due to torque multiplication. A locked or coupled torque converter has no hydraulic loss because it no longer uses hydraulic flow. It uses a mechanical clutch to connect the engine and driveshaft. Also, not all ATs use a torque converter (ie DSG & SMG). Hydraulic loss on a modern AT is almost negligble because unless you have perfect driving form all the time, human inefficiency will make up for the difference.
The reason the MT needs 6 gears vs 5 gears in the AT is because the MT gear ratios are fixed. The AT uses a torque converter. The first three gears have variable gear ratios due to the torque converter being able to torque multiply. Adding a 6th gear is uneccessary because you would just be duplicating a range that it already has.
Pro NASCAR Driver = 0.6-0.8 sec per shift (some of the best manual shifters in the world)
Chances are you are not a pro driver.
DSG is 8ms (Yes, that is milliseconds)
The average human eyeblind is 300ms
Tiptronic S which is very similar to the Z 5AT is less than 200ms. Still way faster than any human can shift.
An unlocked or uncoupled torque converter does have slightly more drivetrain loss due to the hydraulics but it becomes more efficient because it can create more torque to the driveshaft than the engine is outputting due to torque multiplication. A locked or coupled torque converter has no hydraulic loss because it no longer uses hydraulic flow. It uses a mechanical clutch to connect the engine and driveshaft. Also, not all ATs use a torque converter (ie DSG & SMG). Hydraulic loss on a modern AT is almost negligble because unless you have perfect driving form all the time, human inefficiency will make up for the difference.
The reason the MT needs 6 gears vs 5 gears in the AT is because the MT gear ratios are fixed. The AT uses a torque converter. The first three gears have variable gear ratios due to the torque converter being able to torque multiply. Adding a 6th gear is uneccessary because you would just be duplicating a range that it already has.
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Originally Posted by ceddyluv82
He isnt refering to DSG which uses two clutches or the F1 SMG trannys. He is talking about your Nissan slush box...I am very familiar with those types of trannys. I come from BMW's...
I can shift pretty damn fast... and I can tell you that 10 times out of 10 I would rather be in a manual over the automatic because of the ability to use my brain to judge when I need to shift from 5th to 2nd in one shift. A computer won't let you slap three gears down instantly.
I can shift pretty damn fast... and I can tell you that 10 times out of 10 I would rather be in a manual over the automatic because of the ability to use my brain to judge when I need to shift from 5th to 2nd in one shift. A computer won't let you slap three gears down instantly.
But, I stand by my comments. The factual information (subjective neglected) you gave is just plain wrong. You don't even know the difference between an AT or MT. DSG and F1 are automatic transmissions. They use automatic electro-hydraulic clutches and the shifts are computer controlled automatically. The only thing you get to do is tell the tranny when to shift. Once you input the shift command via paddle, button, lever or whatever control is used, the computer takes over. The only tranny that gets to be called a manual transmission is the good ole standard.
All multi-gear tranmissions have at least one clutch. It doesn't matter if it's an AT or MT. It doesn't even matter if it's a car. My two-speed chainsaw has a clutch.
No matter what you say you can not shift faster than the modern ATs. The Z's AT has a manual override and can be overriden from the throttle in AT mode. In addition, the computer will not let you stall or overrev.
The Z 5AT will let you shift multiple gears as long as you aren't going to stall or overrev.
Last edited by Aggro_Al; Mar 31, 2007 at 12:13 PM.
Originally Posted by Aggro_Al
Wrong!!! I'm not going to say that one tranny is better than the other because it's mostly a matter of preference. The current ATs aren't from 1960. They have been updated since then. Your info needs review.
Pro NASCAR Driver = 0.6-0.8 sec per shift (some of the best manual shifters in the world)
Chances are you are not a pro driver.
DSG is 8ms (Yes, that is milliseconds)
The average human eyeblind is 300ms
Tiptronic S which is very similar to the Z 5AT is less than 200ms. Still way faster than any human can shift.
An unlocked or uncoupled torque converter does have slightly more drivetrain loss due to the hydraulics but it becomes more efficient because it can create more torque to the driveshaft than the engine is outputting due to torque multiplication. A locked or coupled torque converter has no hydraulic loss because it no longer uses hydraulic flow. It uses a mechanical clutch to connect the engine and driveshaft. Also, not all ATs use a torque converter (ie DSG & SMG). Hydraulic loss on a modern AT is almost negligble because unless you have perfect driving form all the time, human inefficiency will make up for the difference.
The reason the MT needs 6 gears vs 5 gears in the AT is because the MT gear ratios are fixed. The AT uses a torque converter. The first three gears have variable gear ratios due to the torque converter being able to torque multiply. Adding a 6th gear is uneccessary because you would just be duplicating a range that it already has.
Pro NASCAR Driver = 0.6-0.8 sec per shift (some of the best manual shifters in the world)
Chances are you are not a pro driver.
DSG is 8ms (Yes, that is milliseconds)
The average human eyeblind is 300ms
Tiptronic S which is very similar to the Z 5AT is less than 200ms. Still way faster than any human can shift.
An unlocked or uncoupled torque converter does have slightly more drivetrain loss due to the hydraulics but it becomes more efficient because it can create more torque to the driveshaft than the engine is outputting due to torque multiplication. A locked or coupled torque converter has no hydraulic loss because it no longer uses hydraulic flow. It uses a mechanical clutch to connect the engine and driveshaft. Also, not all ATs use a torque converter (ie DSG & SMG). Hydraulic loss on a modern AT is almost negligble because unless you have perfect driving form all the time, human inefficiency will make up for the difference.
The reason the MT needs 6 gears vs 5 gears in the AT is because the MT gear ratios are fixed. The AT uses a torque converter. The first three gears have variable gear ratios due to the torque converter being able to torque multiply. Adding a 6th gear is uneccessary because you would just be duplicating a range that it already has.
Yes the drivetrain loss is quite a bit more than the MT6
a stock 03 350Z will dyno 20 to 30whp less with a AT5
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Originally Posted by Aggro_Al
I don't want to say that any type of tranny is better than any other type of tranny because it is a matter of personal preference. The best tranny is which ever one you like to drive.
But, I stand by my comments. The factual information (subjective neglected) you gave is just plain wrong. You don't even know the difference between an AT or MT. DSG and F1 are automatic transmissions. They use automatic electro-hydraulic clutches and the shifts are computer controlled automatically. The only thing you get to do is tell the tranny when to shift. Once you input the shift command via paddle, button, lever or whatever control is used, the computer takes over. The only tranny that gets to be called a manual transmission is the good ole standard.
All multi-gear tranmissions have at least one clutch. It doesn't matter if it's an AT or MT. It doesn't even matter if it's a car. My two-speed chainsaw has a clutch.
No matter what you say you can not shift faster than the modern ATs. The Z's AT has a manual override and can be overriden from the throttle in AT mode. In addition, the computer will not let you stall or overrev.
The Z 5AT will let you shift multiple gears as long as you aren't going to stall or overrev.
But, I stand by my comments. The factual information (subjective neglected) you gave is just plain wrong. You don't even know the difference between an AT or MT. DSG and F1 are automatic transmissions. They use automatic electro-hydraulic clutches and the shifts are computer controlled automatically. The only thing you get to do is tell the tranny when to shift. Once you input the shift command via paddle, button, lever or whatever control is used, the computer takes over. The only tranny that gets to be called a manual transmission is the good ole standard.
All multi-gear tranmissions have at least one clutch. It doesn't matter if it's an AT or MT. It doesn't even matter if it's a car. My two-speed chainsaw has a clutch.
No matter what you say you can not shift faster than the modern ATs. The Z's AT has a manual override and can be overriden from the throttle in AT mode. In addition, the computer will not let you stall or overrev.
The Z 5AT will let you shift multiple gears as long as you aren't going to stall or overrev.
I have argued this topic ten million times at E46fanatics. I refuse to do it again... the beating of the dead horse smiley could not be more true. I know the difference between all of those transmissions very well. Copy and pasting info from Wikipedia isn't going to make you look any smarter in your attempt to make me look stupid. I will bet money I can go around a track in a stock manual 350z and post faster times then the automatic Z. You don't need a bachelors degree to realize that. The way your typing it is that the DSG and the SMG F1 are automatics when they are not. SMG's use clutches, automatic transmissions use torque converters. Big difference.
Last edited by ceddyluv82; Mar 31, 2007 at 12:31 PM.