4 extra miles on my car after oil change.
07-10-2003, 12:53 PM
#61
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Writing a letter when a damage has taken place works, as in the case of the $250.00 broken furnace is more than appropriate. You can point to the damage as evidence of your complaint.
Writing a letter, in which ZERO, I repeat ZERO damage has taken place is not called for.
It is not appropriate. It is obvious that the dealer he took his car to has made it standard practice to take test drives after work has been done.
I agree letters work under many circumstances, and I have been through a lot with my own Z, which has required several letters (try 30 days in the shop after 60 days of ownership/ compression rod issue).
However, my Z did sustain damage, there was a reason for me to write the letter. I required that some action take place. This owner, who has had no damage take place, and who had his car repaired by some guys that most likely are just honest hard working mechanics, has no place to complain.
I cant believe the amount of attention this thread has generated. Man, I feel like its turned into a Justin Timberlake Concert in here. Cry me a River, my poor 3 miles, my poor 3 miles.
Writing a letter, in which ZERO, I repeat ZERO damage has taken place is not called for.
It is not appropriate. It is obvious that the dealer he took his car to has made it standard practice to take test drives after work has been done.
I agree letters work under many circumstances, and I have been through a lot with my own Z, which has required several letters (try 30 days in the shop after 60 days of ownership/ compression rod issue).
However, my Z did sustain damage, there was a reason for me to write the letter. I required that some action take place. This owner, who has had no damage take place, and who had his car repaired by some guys that most likely are just honest hard working mechanics, has no place to complain.
I cant believe the amount of attention this thread has generated. Man, I feel like its turned into a Justin Timberlake Concert in here. Cry me a River, my poor 3 miles, my poor 3 miles.
07-10-2003, 01:30 PM
#62
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Originally posted by labshark7
Writing a letter when a damage has taken place works, as in the case of the $250.00 broken furnace is more than appropriate. You can point to the damage as evidence of your complaint.
Writing a letter, in which ZERO, I repeat ZERO damage has taken place is not called for.
It is not appropriate. It is obvious that the dealer he took his car to has made it standard practice to take test drives after work has been done.
I agree letters work under many circumstances, and I have been through a lot with my own Z, which has required several letters (try 30 days in the shop after 60 days of ownership/ compression rod issue).
However, my Z did sustain damage, there was a reason for me to write the letter. I required that some action take place. This owner, who has had no damage take place, and who had his car repaired by some guys that most likely are just honest hard working mechanics, has no place to complain.
I cant believe the amount of attention this thread has generated. Man, I feel like its turned into a Justin Timberlake Concert in here. Cry me a River, my poor 3 miles, my poor 3 miles.
Writing a letter when a damage has taken place works, as in the case of the $250.00 broken furnace is more than appropriate. You can point to the damage as evidence of your complaint.
Writing a letter, in which ZERO, I repeat ZERO damage has taken place is not called for.
It is not appropriate. It is obvious that the dealer he took his car to has made it standard practice to take test drives after work has been done.
I agree letters work under many circumstances, and I have been through a lot with my own Z, which has required several letters (try 30 days in the shop after 60 days of ownership/ compression rod issue).
However, my Z did sustain damage, there was a reason for me to write the letter. I required that some action take place. This owner, who has had no damage take place, and who had his car repaired by some guys that most likely are just honest hard working mechanics, has no place to complain.
I cant believe the amount of attention this thread has generated. Man, I feel like its turned into a Justin Timberlake Concert in here. Cry me a River, my poor 3 miles, my poor 3 miles.
I've only read the first couple and this last response, but if somebody took my car out for a drive after changing the oil I WOULD be PISSED too.
Don't know what all this letter writing stuff is about, but test driving an oil change is ********!
07-10-2003, 01:50 PM
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Writing a letter, in which ZERO, I repeat ZERO damage has taken place is not called for.
Here is a neat adjective:
proactive
Acting in advance to deal with an possible or expected difficulty.
Bini here feels that the behavior shown by his dealership is an issues, as many other here have also agreed. In writing the letter, not only does he express his displeasure in a written format, he's created a paper trail in case some does happen that next time.
I dont' think anyone here believes that a dealship should never road test a car, but that isn't the point. The point is that in this situation, the road test wasn't needed at all.
07-10-2003, 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by mdelia
he's created a paper trail in case some does happen that next time.
he's created a paper trail in case some does happen that next time.
That's why I asked the Nissan Service Rep to seriously consider having a ratings system for their dealers, like the Better Business Bureau does, so you can see how many complaints have been filed against a particular dealer.
07-10-2003, 02:07 PM
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How do you know a road test wasnt needed?
Were you under the car? Did you see what the Nissan Tech saw?
The Nissan Factory Service Manual clearly states that after an oil change, even if the filter is not removed the following step must be taken:
6) warm up engine check for leakage around drain plug and oil filter for leakage
7) Stop the engine and wait 10 minutes
8) Check oil level once again
*the above was taken from the 2003 Factory Service Manual, published by Nissan*
Now we all know that letting a car warm to operating temperature at idle is not a good situation. The owners manual clearly states, that the car should not be left to idle over a prolonged period. It is improper. It will damage the engine, over time. The best way to do this is to allow the engine to reach operating temp. while being driven.
Then check for leaks.
What more do you people want. Would you rather have your Z's idle for 5 mins while they reach operating temp. ?
Luckily his dealership did him a great service by driving his Z, 3 miles so that no damage to his car was done, as they took the car up to normal operating temp., in line with the factory service protocol.
How about some hard facts, before posting. I am 100% right, and have been all along. I am trying to help you guys and girls avoid damage to your cars, by taking the factory approved methods into account.
Test drives should always be done, 100% of the time, after an oil change. Then the car should be leak tested.
Were you under the car? Did you see what the Nissan Tech saw?
The Nissan Factory Service Manual clearly states that after an oil change, even if the filter is not removed the following step must be taken:
6) warm up engine check for leakage around drain plug and oil filter for leakage
7) Stop the engine and wait 10 minutes
8) Check oil level once again
*the above was taken from the 2003 Factory Service Manual, published by Nissan*
Now we all know that letting a car warm to operating temperature at idle is not a good situation. The owners manual clearly states, that the car should not be left to idle over a prolonged period. It is improper. It will damage the engine, over time. The best way to do this is to allow the engine to reach operating temp. while being driven.
Then check for leaks.
What more do you people want. Would you rather have your Z's idle for 5 mins while they reach operating temp. ?
Luckily his dealership did him a great service by driving his Z, 3 miles so that no damage to his car was done, as they took the car up to normal operating temp., in line with the factory service protocol.
How about some hard facts, before posting. I am 100% right, and have been all along. I am trying to help you guys and girls avoid damage to your cars, by taking the factory approved methods into account.
Test drives should always be done, 100% of the time, after an oil change. Then the car should be leak tested.
Last edited by labshark7; 07-10-2003 at 02:11 PM.
07-10-2003, 03:43 PM
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It doesnt matter where the service was done,
They were following approved service procedures. I think you owe the techs a huge favor for following proper Nissan Guidelines.
You should consider yourself lucky, that you took your car to such an honest dealership, that actually follows the book.
They were following approved service procedures. I think you owe the techs a huge favor for following proper Nissan Guidelines.
You should consider yourself lucky, that you took your car to such an honest dealership, that actually follows the book.
07-10-2003, 04:09 PM
#69
How about some hard facts, before posting. I am 100% right, and have been all along. I am trying to help you guys and girls avoid damage to your cars, by taking the factory approved methods into account.
6) warm up engine check for leakage around drain plug and oil filter for leakage
7) Stop the engine and wait 10 minutes
8) Check oil level once again
The best way to do this is to allow the engine to reach operating temp. while being driven.
What more do you people want. Would you rather have your Z's idle for 5 mins while they reach operating temp. ?
Admit it, you are defending some tech who took someone's car out for a joyride when he didn't have to.
07-10-2003, 04:15 PM
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I am 100% right. You are are trying to argue against a fact.
You guys can say what you will, but it wont make any difference.
The tech did a great job, in fact maybe he should have driven it a bit more.
Anyone who doesnt drive a car after an oil change is not doing their job.
The oil pressure inside the engine when it is at 3k RPM's is much higher than at an idle. Now are you going to argue that letting the car sit in a non-moving state at 3k rpm's or higher is acceptable?
I think not. Hence, there is no need to continue this thread, as you are wrong.
My opinion on NOT allowing the car to idle is based on information within the owners manual and the Factory Service Manual and is based on hard facts, not opinion.
Always road test after changing the oil, then check for leaks, this is taught at every single ASE certified tech school on the planet.
Dr. Bonz, have you read the manual? Do you own a Factory Service Manual? Have you attended an ASE Certified Tech School or done research on the matter?
If not, then arent you attempting to weigh your opinion, against my facts which are documented by Nissan Motors!
Its proper technique that keeps our cars problem free. I am glad your car was test driven, I wish my own service tech took this very important step.
You guys can say what you will, but it wont make any difference.
The tech did a great job, in fact maybe he should have driven it a bit more.
Anyone who doesnt drive a car after an oil change is not doing their job.
The oil pressure inside the engine when it is at 3k RPM's is much higher than at an idle. Now are you going to argue that letting the car sit in a non-moving state at 3k rpm's or higher is acceptable?
I think not. Hence, there is no need to continue this thread, as you are wrong.
My opinion on NOT allowing the car to idle is based on information within the owners manual and the Factory Service Manual and is based on hard facts, not opinion.
Always road test after changing the oil, then check for leaks, this is taught at every single ASE certified tech school on the planet.
Dr. Bonz, have you read the manual? Do you own a Factory Service Manual? Have you attended an ASE Certified Tech School or done research on the matter?
If not, then arent you attempting to weigh your opinion, against my facts which are documented by Nissan Motors!
Its proper technique that keeps our cars problem free. I am glad your car was test driven, I wish my own service tech took this very important step.
Last edited by labshark7; 07-10-2003 at 04:24 PM.
07-10-2003, 04:17 PM
#71
Guess I'll throw in my 2 cents. I let lots of people drive my car without reservation. It's protected by Lojack, by insurance and by warranty. It's just a car.
I'd be ticked if someone took my car out for a ride without permission but if there is no damage, no harm, no foul.
That is excluding the farting in my car that Iris mentioned, I think I'd have a problem with that.
I'd be ticked if someone took my car out for a ride without permission but if there is no damage, no harm, no foul.
That is excluding the farting in my car that Iris mentioned, I think I'd have a problem with that.
07-10-2003, 07:53 PM
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labshark,
did you put the 4 miles on the car or something. you're getting a little testy (sp?) over something that didn't even happen to your car.
Remember this: people on forums are allowed to have differing opinions. Especially about something like this. You don't have to get derogatory.
dan
did you put the 4 miles on the car or something. you're getting a little testy (sp?) over something that didn't even happen to your car.
Remember this: people on forums are allowed to have differing opinions. Especially about something like this. You don't have to get derogatory.
dan
07-10-2003, 09:52 PM
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Dan,
Whos is getting derogatory? Why would you say such a thing? I am asking a serious question?
We are having an ongoing discussion. Is there something you wish to add?
I am not getting testy in the least bit. I am simply stating the fact that I am right in this matter.
All others who have posted so far, are wrong. I dont think it would be proper for me to agree with them, when proper repair and service procedure dictate the car be taken on a test drive.
I have given several examples of where this is posted, and where to find such information.
What I cant understand is why you are debating the undisputable facts, I am right, all others who disagree with me 100% are wrong. FACT!
I am simply educating my fellow Z members on what to expect when their car is worked on by a trained tech. They should expect the car to be driven and then leak tested. There is a right way and a wrong way to change a cars oil. I have seen brand new oil filter gaskets fail within 10 minutes of installation.
The technician was right to drive the 4 miles. In fact if he worked for me, I would give him a raise, and thanked him. I would hate to be the owner of a company that sent a 350Z back to a customer without a proper test drive.
Whos is getting derogatory? Why would you say such a thing? I am asking a serious question?
We are having an ongoing discussion. Is there something you wish to add?
I am not getting testy in the least bit. I am simply stating the fact that I am right in this matter.
All others who have posted so far, are wrong. I dont think it would be proper for me to agree with them, when proper repair and service procedure dictate the car be taken on a test drive.
I have given several examples of where this is posted, and where to find such information.
What I cant understand is why you are debating the undisputable facts, I am right, all others who disagree with me 100% are wrong. FACT!
I am simply educating my fellow Z members on what to expect when their car is worked on by a trained tech. They should expect the car to be driven and then leak tested. There is a right way and a wrong way to change a cars oil. I have seen brand new oil filter gaskets fail within 10 minutes of installation.
The technician was right to drive the 4 miles. In fact if he worked for me, I would give him a raise, and thanked him. I would hate to be the owner of a company that sent a 350Z back to a customer without a proper test drive.
Last edited by labshark7; 07-10-2003 at 09:55 PM.
07-11-2003, 03:23 AM
#74
The oil pressure inside the engine when it is at 3k RPM's is much higher than at an idle. Now are you going to argue that letting the car sit in a non-moving state at 3k rpm's or higher is acceptable?
Now, you are adding things to your argument and this is turning into a "slippery slope" debate.
My opinion on NOT allowing the car to idle is based on information within the owners manual and the Factory Service Manual and is based on hard facts, not opinion.
BTW, I do have the factory service manual but admittedly, I did not consult it on this (and I still haven't). I'm just stating common sense logic here. If what you say about test driving the car after every oil change is true, the least the shop should have done is asked the owners permission to drive the car or have it in writing that they would be driving the car on the service contract. Then it is simply buyer (owner) beware and there is no basis for any complaints or letters.
07-11-2003, 04:43 AM
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Originally posted by Dr Bonz
And the oil pressure at 6500 RPM's is higher than at 3k. So where do you stop? The way you are stating it, is that 3k is a better test than idle. So I suppose that 6k is better still! Maybe to get a really good test for leaking, the tech should redline the engine for 4 miles to MAKE SURE it doesn't leak!
Now, you are adding things to your argument and this is turning into a "slippery slope" debate.
And the oil pressure at 6500 RPM's is higher than at 3k. So where do you stop? The way you are stating it, is that 3k is a better test than idle. So I suppose that 6k is better still! Maybe to get a really good test for leaking, the tech should redline the engine for 4 miles to MAKE SURE it doesn't leak!
Now, you are adding things to your argument and this is turning into a "slippery slope" debate.
07-11-2003, 04:58 AM
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I think 4 miles should be the least of your worries compared to this:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=599707
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=599707
07-11-2003, 05:36 AM
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Originally posted by stonesfan
Yeah....well the same thing COULD have happened to him!
Yeah....well the same thing COULD have happened to him!
07-11-2003, 05:45 AM
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Bonz--thank you for letting this guy know that he's stating opinions, not facts. Too bad he's declared himself the "winner" when there's nothing to be won. No offense, labshark, but you're sounding a bit too much like Napoleon to me.
If this driving thing were in fact "standard procedure," 1) BOTH managers would have stated that instead of the first guy saying that it was strange, 2) they SHOULD at least mention that they will drive your car for a few miles to ensure against any leaks, afterall, it's NOT their car, and 3) our initial poster should write this letter to at the very least get a paper trail going, incase something like that happens again--like stonesfan said, next time, the car may come back totalled like that poor Vette did.
We're just trying to help this guy out with his situation based on what we would do if we were in his shoes. There's no need to start this, "I've won" thing and declare that everyone else's opinions are wrong. Not cool at all. You're entitled to think the guy is over reacting, but the rest of us seem to think that there's something shady about that deal, and we would hope that SOMETHING would be done so that nothing happens like that Vette story posted earlier. Just my .02. Feel free to disagree, but don't tell me I'm wrong.
If this driving thing were in fact "standard procedure," 1) BOTH managers would have stated that instead of the first guy saying that it was strange, 2) they SHOULD at least mention that they will drive your car for a few miles to ensure against any leaks, afterall, it's NOT their car, and 3) our initial poster should write this letter to at the very least get a paper trail going, incase something like that happens again--like stonesfan said, next time, the car may come back totalled like that poor Vette did.
We're just trying to help this guy out with his situation based on what we would do if we were in his shoes. There's no need to start this, "I've won" thing and declare that everyone else's opinions are wrong. Not cool at all. You're entitled to think the guy is over reacting, but the rest of us seem to think that there's something shady about that deal, and we would hope that SOMETHING would be done so that nothing happens like that Vette story posted earlier. Just my .02. Feel free to disagree, but don't tell me I'm wrong.
07-11-2003, 05:56 AM
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Great post, Giedrius!
A perfect example why NO ONE HAS ANY BUSINESS driving your car without your permission. END OF DISSCUSSION.
Peace
Peace
Last edited by marhot; 07-11-2003 at 06:00 AM.