04 vs 06 vs 08 Stock for Stock?
09-23-2008, 08:32 AM
#122
Fuel to fire?
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/0407vet...ion/index.html
Excerpt for those not wanting to read - swapped clutch disc, pressure plate and flywheel...
BEFORE:
357.3 hp and 351.8 ft-lb of torque on its third run. Water temperature was 191oF and oil temp was at 210oF. Outside temperature was 53oF. The runs were made in fourth gear from 2,000 rpm to 6,400 rpm, and it took 14 seconds for the car to reach its maximum horsepower.
After:
Our best of three runs netted 366.6 hp and 360.4 lbs of torque--a gain of 9.3 hp and 8.6 ft-lb of torque. Maximum horsepower was achieved in 11 vs. 14 seconds with the stock parts, and maximum torque was seen in 9 vs. 11 seconds with the stock parts!
No NOPE, No gains.
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/0407vet...ion/index.html
Excerpt for those not wanting to read - swapped clutch disc, pressure plate and flywheel...
BEFORE:
357.3 hp and 351.8 ft-lb of torque on its third run. Water temperature was 191oF and oil temp was at 210oF. Outside temperature was 53oF. The runs were made in fourth gear from 2,000 rpm to 6,400 rpm, and it took 14 seconds for the car to reach its maximum horsepower.
After:
Our best of three runs netted 366.6 hp and 360.4 lbs of torque--a gain of 9.3 hp and 8.6 ft-lb of torque. Maximum horsepower was achieved in 11 vs. 14 seconds with the stock parts, and maximum torque was seen in 9 vs. 11 seconds with the stock parts!
No NOPE, No gains.
Last edited by WTX350Z; 09-23-2008 at 08:35 AM.
09-23-2008, 08:33 AM
#123
hatersgonnahate
iTrader: (162)
What, an IE? CE? dont you dare say ME because that would be blasphemy.
Registered PE?
Solo, i honestly dont have the time to formulate the equations that prove that a mass reduction on the drivetrain would net a higher WHP. If you cant understand the concept thats not my problem.
Registered PE?
Solo, i honestly dont have the time to formulate the equations that prove that a mass reduction on the drivetrain would net a higher WHP. If you cant understand the concept thats not my problem.
09-23-2008, 08:35 AM
#124
Originally Posted by SOLO-350Z
Personal opinion? I have been in the Z clubs since 1996 and have seen what those cars can do stock vs the 350z.
I have yet to see a 350z beat a stock TT when both are stock cars. 350Z is not faster than a TwinTurbo 300ZX.
Guess all the magazines that tested the cars (350z) when it came out lied too saying the 350z isn't as fast as the old z32.
I have yet to see a 350z beat a stock TT when both are stock cars. 350Z is not faster than a TwinTurbo 300ZX.
Guess all the magazines that tested the cars (350z) when it came out lied too saying the 350z isn't as fast as the old z32.
HR 350z is a tad faste rthan a stock Z32TT
mod for mod the Z32TT will be better faster than the DE and HR 350z
09-23-2008, 08:36 AM
#125
Again, this is not on a 350z. 350Z doesn't gain anything. It has been discussed on here 1000s of times!!
Originally Posted by WTX350Z
Fuel to fire?
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/0407vet...ion/index.html
Excerpt for those not wanting to read - swapped clutch disc, pressure plate and flywheel...
BEFORE:
357.3 hp and 351.8 ft-lb of torque on its third run. Water temperature was 191oF and oil temp was at 210oF. Outside temperature was 53oF. The runs were made in fourth gear from 2,000 rpm to 6,400 rpm, and it took 14 seconds for the car to reach its maximum horsepower.
After:
Our best of three runs netted 366.6 hp and 360.4 lbs of torque--a gain of 9.3 hp and 8.6 ft-lb of torque. Maximum horsepower was achieved in 11 vs. 14 seconds with the stock parts, and maximum torque was seen in 9 vs. 11 seconds with the stock parts!
No NOPE, No gains.
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/0407vet...ion/index.html
Excerpt for those not wanting to read - swapped clutch disc, pressure plate and flywheel...
BEFORE:
357.3 hp and 351.8 ft-lb of torque on its third run. Water temperature was 191oF and oil temp was at 210oF. Outside temperature was 53oF. The runs were made in fourth gear from 2,000 rpm to 6,400 rpm, and it took 14 seconds for the car to reach its maximum horsepower.
After:
Our best of three runs netted 366.6 hp and 360.4 lbs of torque--a gain of 9.3 hp and 8.6 ft-lb of torque. Maximum horsepower was achieved in 11 vs. 14 seconds with the stock parts, and maximum torque was seen in 9 vs. 11 seconds with the stock parts!
No NOPE, No gains.
09-23-2008, 08:38 AM
#127
Administrator
iTrader: (25)
For those that missed my warning on page # 5, post 100, here it is again:
https://my350z.com/forum/6336585-post100.html
Next violator will recieve time off...
VO
https://my350z.com/forum/6336585-post100.html
Next violator will recieve time off...
VO
09-23-2008, 08:39 AM
#128
Originally Posted by SOLO-350Z
Again, this is not on a 350z. 350Z doesn't gain anything. It has been discussed on here 1000s of times!!
i agree with you in that aspect, however certain things will allow a car to perform better.. its not gaining HP per say.. but free'ing up HP that was there before hand..
its the same as removing an A/C and Power Steering.. removing these items don't gain HP.. but they free up the rotational mass of the engine.. those giving back lost HP robbed from those accessories
09-23-2008, 08:40 AM
#129
hatersgonnahate
iTrader: (162)
Originally Posted by WTX350Z
Fuel to fire?
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/0407vet...ion/index.html
Excerpt for those not wanting to read - swapped clutch disc, pressure plate and flywheel...
BEFORE:
357.3 hp and 351.8 ft-lb of torque on its third run. Water temperature was 191oF and oil temp was at 210oF. Outside temperature was 53oF. The runs were made in fourth gear from 2,000 rpm to 6,400 rpm, and it took 14 seconds for the car to reach its maximum horsepower.
After:
Our best of three runs netted 366.6 hp and 360.4 lbs of torque--a gain of 9.3 hp and 8.6 ft-lb of torque. Maximum horsepower was achieved in 11 vs. 14 seconds with the stock parts, and maximum torque was seen in 9 vs. 11 seconds with the stock parts!
No NOPE, No gains.
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/0407vet...ion/index.html
Excerpt for those not wanting to read - swapped clutch disc, pressure plate and flywheel...
BEFORE:
357.3 hp and 351.8 ft-lb of torque on its third run. Water temperature was 191oF and oil temp was at 210oF. Outside temperature was 53oF. The runs were made in fourth gear from 2,000 rpm to 6,400 rpm, and it took 14 seconds for the car to reach its maximum horsepower.
After:
Our best of three runs netted 366.6 hp and 360.4 lbs of torque--a gain of 9.3 hp and 8.6 ft-lb of torque. Maximum horsepower was achieved in 11 vs. 14 seconds with the stock parts, and maximum torque was seen in 9 vs. 11 seconds with the stock parts!
No NOPE, No gains.
Solo, Z or not, its the same physics.
09-23-2008, 08:41 AM
#130
Originally Posted by doug
its not.. but your argument was based on any car.. and that it doesn't gain HP..
i agree with you in that aspect, however certain things will allow a car to perform better.. its not gaining HP per say.. but free'ing up HP that was there before hand..
its the same as removing an A/C and Power Steering.. removing these items don't gain HP.. but they free up the rotational mass of the engine.. those giving back lost HP robbed from those accessories
i agree with you in that aspect, however certain things will allow a car to perform better.. its not gaining HP per say.. but free'ing up HP that was there before hand..
its the same as removing an A/C and Power Steering.. removing these items don't gain HP.. but they free up the rotational mass of the engine.. those giving back lost HP robbed from those accessories
09-23-2008, 08:41 AM
#131
Originally Posted by SOLO-350Z
Again, this is not on a 350z. 350Z doesn't gain anything. It has been discussed on here 1000s of times!!
I don't put a lot of faith in "ITS BEEN DISCUSSED HERE 1000'S OF TIMES"
because Tire feathering misconceptions have been spread here 1000's of times...lots of inaccurate things are spread here.
decrease weight, decrease torque needed to move said weight. nothing changes this. Nope, not even this weight being in a Japanese car.
Originally Posted by doug
i agree with you in that aspect, however certain things will allow a car to perform better.. its not gaining HP per say.. but free'ing up HP that was there before hand..
its the same as removing an A/C and Power Steering.. removing these items don't gain HP.. but they free up the rotational mass of the engine.. those giving back lost HP robbed from those accessories
its the same as removing an A/C and Power Steering.. removing these items don't gain HP.. but they free up the rotational mass of the engine.. those giving back lost HP robbed from those accessories
Last edited by WTX350Z; 09-23-2008 at 08:44 AM.
09-23-2008, 08:42 AM
#132
Originally Posted by SOLO-350Z
I never said any car, I said 350Z.
09-23-2008, 08:43 AM
#134
Originally Posted by doug
well the same concept applies.. naturally an engine with more power will show more gains.. but its basically the same concept on all cars when you start to remove accessories or use lighter accessories and so fort
Of course, but no gains have been proven on a dyno like the guy wants to keep trying to prove. I proved to him, nothing is gained on a dyno.
09-23-2008, 08:53 AM
#135
Originally Posted by SOLO-350Z
Of course, but no gains have been proven on a dyno like the guy wants to keep trying to prove. I proved to him, nothing is gained on a dyno.
if you remove your power steering and AC it will show up on a dyno.. its very hard to understand because you are not in theory gaining any horsepower.. you are really just allowing the engine to operate more freely..
the same concept with dynoing with larger heavier rims.. the engine needs more work to turn those rims.. and will read slightly lower, however you are not losing HP so to speak.. same goes for a dirty air filter... bad plugs... car running too rich.. anything that will make the engine work harder or less will alter a dyno sheet.. but in actuality.. you're not gaining or losing HP..
very difficult to explain.. but i understand both sides of the argument and both of you are right
you're also right any gains will be minimal.. but it will show some gains
09-23-2008, 08:56 AM
#136
Again, no flywheel or pulley install has shown up on a dyno for the 350z. I proved that above with a link to dynos. I understand how weight loss and mass works. Been into this type of stuff for 20 years. But he kept pushing there would be a whp gain with pulleys or flywheel when there is no gains in whp.
09-23-2008, 09:00 AM
#137
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Re: flywheel
Lighter flywheel = less rotational mass to accelerate = faster revving.
The fact that the engine revs faster is already proof that there has been a gain somewhere; increasing engine power would also cause it to rev faster, given that all other components in the drivetrain are equal.
Now, when you consider the weights involved versus the weight of the car and all 4 wheels + tires, what does that amount to?
Think of it this way, the diameter of the flywheel and it's weight, versus FOUR tires and rims. The tires and rims are MUCH heavier, and MUCH larger in diameter.
Thus, in theory, a lighter flywheel DOES net you more WHP. The reality of this is that the gain is so small on the Z that it falls within the error margin on virtually all dynos.
Here's the real world example: When you're in neutral, all the engine is spinning is the flywheel (overly simplified, yes). In gear, the engine is spinning the flywheel, transmission, wheels, and everything in between, as well as accelerating the car. With a lighter flywheel, you rev faster in neutral. In gear, you'd be VERY hard pressed to notice a difference, other than when you're starting from a stop, or noticing that the revs drop faster between shifts.
FYI, I run a 8.6lb flywheel on my car
Lighter flywheel = less rotational mass to accelerate = faster revving.
The fact that the engine revs faster is already proof that there has been a gain somewhere; increasing engine power would also cause it to rev faster, given that all other components in the drivetrain are equal.
Now, when you consider the weights involved versus the weight of the car and all 4 wheels + tires, what does that amount to?
Think of it this way, the diameter of the flywheel and it's weight, versus FOUR tires and rims. The tires and rims are MUCH heavier, and MUCH larger in diameter.
Thus, in theory, a lighter flywheel DOES net you more WHP. The reality of this is that the gain is so small on the Z that it falls within the error margin on virtually all dynos.
Here's the real world example: When you're in neutral, all the engine is spinning is the flywheel (overly simplified, yes). In gear, the engine is spinning the flywheel, transmission, wheels, and everything in between, as well as accelerating the car. With a lighter flywheel, you rev faster in neutral. In gear, you'd be VERY hard pressed to notice a difference, other than when you're starting from a stop, or noticing that the revs drop faster between shifts.
FYI, I run a 8.6lb flywheel on my car
Last edited by Mike@RiversideInfiniti; 09-23-2008 at 09:02 AM.
09-23-2008, 09:03 AM
#138
Originally Posted by Mike@RiversideInfiniti
Re: flywheel
Lighter flywheel = less rotational mass to accelerate = faster revving.
The fact that the engine revs faster is already proof that there has been a gain somewhere.
Now, when you consider the weights involved versus the weight of the car and all 4 wheels + tires, what does that amount to?
Think of it this way, the diameter of the flywheel and it's weight, versus FOUR tires and rims. The tires and rims are MUCH heavier, and MUCH larger in diameter.
Thus, in theory, a lighter flywheel DOES net you more WHP. The reality of this is that the gain is so small on the Z that it falls within the error margin on virtually all dynos.
FYI, I run a 8.6lb flywheel on my car
Lighter flywheel = less rotational mass to accelerate = faster revving.
The fact that the engine revs faster is already proof that there has been a gain somewhere.
Now, when you consider the weights involved versus the weight of the car and all 4 wheels + tires, what does that amount to?
Think of it this way, the diameter of the flywheel and it's weight, versus FOUR tires and rims. The tires and rims are MUCH heavier, and MUCH larger in diameter.
Thus, in theory, a lighter flywheel DOES net you more WHP. The reality of this is that the gain is so small on the Z that it falls within the error margin on virtually all dynos.
FYI, I run a 8.6lb flywheel on my car
09-23-2008, 09:06 AM
#139
hatersgonnahate
iTrader: (162)
Originally Posted by Mike@RiversideInfiniti
FYI, I run a 8.6lb flywheel on my car
does it rev like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elzdhe7GQYo
friggin insane!
