Just wondering what most of you guys think about the Manual Tranny vs. Automatic/Steptronic/Sportronic Tranny in the Z. Seems the majority of you guys have a 6 speed, as opposed to the 5 speed auto/steptronic.

I went just the opposite and got the auto/steptronic even though I know how to drive a manual. I do alot of city driving and I absolutely hated driving a manual in the city, and when I got my Z there was no way I was gonna go thru that crap again. So that's why I got the automatic plus I can still run thru the gears with the steptronic when I want to I figure it's the best of both worlds.

Alot of people say the autos are slower than the manuals, and people say this about just about any car. But exactly how much slower are they? I mean I realize I can't rev the engine and dump at a certain rpm for launching with a auto (unless I do a neutral drop which is bad) but I've noticed that my Z takes off very quick from a dead stop very little if any tire spin. Granted I don't do 1st or 2nd gear burnouts when I take off but it takes off pretty swiftly if you ask me.

Also I never have to worry about launching at too high of a rpm and getting too much spin or bogging the car down at launch. I don't know I just prefer the auto/steptronic much more, granted it takes much more skill to master driving this type of car with a manual but I just don't feel like I'm losing that much to a manual speed wise.

I would like to hear some other opinions on this thanks

 

Well the auto tranny increases drivetrain power losses and decreases the overall rear wheel HP, also you cannot control the launching as you could with a manual (obviously).

So far what I have seen is that the autos are only about .1-.2 behind the MTs in the 1/4 but the autos seem to lag behind in trap speeds 1.5-2mph behind the MTs.

 

many people argue that the autos are slower because of the increased power loss in the drivetrain. according to nissan the 5at trannys experience on average 5-10% more drivetrain loss than the 6mt. however, many people also believe that due to the lower gearing of the 5at that it compensates for the slight loss of power (if you consider 20hp a slight loss). do a search on this site and youll find that 5at and 6mt 1/4 and 0-60 times are pretty much the same. as you mentioned you cant do 5k drops with a 5at, but when anything over 3-4k causes excessive wheel spin, its not that much of a loss. however, if you can launch at 3k without the 30% power loss when doing brake torques in a 5at its the ideal situation. to do this i installed a switch that allows me to turn the abs off so i can launch at whatever rpms i want without the power loss. sorta like a poor mans stall converter.

 

Yes, I'll confess now. I also have a new 04 Roadster with the 5AT. This car was to be my wifes daily driver, replacing a truck she has driven for years. She and I can both drive a manual, but for daily use in SoCal traffic, it just didn't seem worth it. I ride a motorcycle for daily use and wasn't planing to drive the Z hardly at all. However, the damn thing is so much fun to drive, even with the AT, that I find I am taking it more and more.

Yes, true sportcar nuts are going to give us crap for buying the AT, but you gotta go with what works for you and your environment. The nice thing is, that the car has quite a punch off the line, even with the AT. Better than other's I had tested(Z4, SLK), those cars in auto were not too good. Hell, I've driven a Lexus SC430 with V8 and it doesn't match the Z punch either.

As for power loss, you are looking at 12 to 15% for manual trans to the rear wheel, and 17 to 20% for auto trans to the rear wheel. Works out to about 10 or 12hp. On this board there is one 5AT driver that did a 14.1 1/4 mile at 99 mph, which is in line with alot of the manual boyz. Biggest problem I see for performance driving with the auto trans is heat. Heat can kill an AT real fast, so I'm not sure how the AT will hold up at an Auto-x or trackday. Of course the brakes or powersteering pump, could cook long before the tranny, so maybe it doesn't matter in high performance situations anyway. I do plan to take the Roadster out on a track for an HPDE session, so we will see how it goes. If it gets too hot, I will have to do some cool down laps before going at it again, but really, I think the brakes will be the limiting factor, not the AT.

Have fun with yours.
Ed

P.S. I have heard that the fastest way to do a standing 1/4 with the 5AT Z, is to leave it in D and just floor it. The computer will shift right at redline for each shift. The Tipronic has been slower through the 1/4 as it is hard to anticipate when your are going to hit redline. However, if you want to get with it while already moving on the open road, then yes, it is faster to shift over to tiptronic mode and bang a downshift or two. Mine's not broken in yet, so I haven't tested these methods yet.

 

I had manual transmissions since I started driving in 1960, except for my last 2 cars (7 years). I finally got sick of driving stick in Chicago metro traffic and I refuse to go back. When I bought my Enthusiast, I went with the AT. It's worth 20hp any day.

al
"gettin' there is half the fun."

 

Rather than just 1/4 mile times and 0-60, I wonder how laps times around a track would differ, since the auto also addes some weight in addition to the lost power. I may or may not take my Z to the track (that's what the bike is for ) but I've just never liked driving auto, as I like the extra control over a manual gives you.

The worst was driving down the freeway in the snow in cleveland, and not being able to speed up because the car didn't have enough power in the current gear, but giving it gas would have caused it to downshift more abruptly than I'd prefer whil drivng a RWD car in the snow. Granted, that was a lousy car with a lousy tranny, but... I like not just selecting the gear, but deciding how hard and how quick I wanna shift.... And burnouts

Driving stick in even heavy LA traffic has never really bugged me, but.. That's just me.

 

I had a 6sp for about 7 months and now an auto for about 2 months. I needed to try both -- don't ask me why. First impression when driving off the lot with the Auto having driven the manual, wow...continuous forward push (in particular during casual driving where in a 6sp you would take your time to shift to next gear). Having driven a 6sp, I didn't really need to test the power of the AUTO much more than the dealer's other demo 350Z.

With the manual, I felt lots of control. With the Auto, only on occasion I felt I was in control. Once the manual mode becomes instinctive, it may feel better. For example, on the highway, some freek hard brakes infront of me so I quickly tossed into manual mode (the trans automatically goes from 5th to 4th on this swap)...and immediately tap it down after the swap...telling it to go from 5th to 3rd before it even considers to go to 4th -- this shoots you up to about 3.5k rpm...and passing was very sweet.

The AUTO also adapts to your driving habits. When I drove off the dealer, it has 7miles on the ODO and wasn't driven at all...thus, the thing was shiftling like a grandma...literally shifting at about 2k rpm in every gear....the engine (coming from a manual) sounded almost bogged down all the time...like a continus humm...Fast forward a few months, the manual is now shifting between 2.5-3k. Incidentally, the 2nd gear is very close to the ratio of 1st gear and it tends to not engage long...how ever...3rd gear is very far from 2nd. So a shift from 1st to 2nd the RPM's change say 500 at the most...while a change from 2nd to 3rd the RPM's change over 1k -- this to me was annoying at first as the car would barely hold 2nd gear and then immediately go to 3rd. Coming from the manual, this annoyed me because I would loose lots of torque on 3rd gear at running at 1.5k rpm rather than taking 2nd from say 2.5k rpm to 3k rpm. The 6sp was nice from this point of view as the gears were more evenly spaced out. Knowing it was an adaptive transmission..I purposely started accellerating a little to hold 2nd longer...and now it holds it nicely as if the gears were evenly spaced.

All said and done, I may be going back to a manual shortly...I didn't plan to do this...but it just happend to be the draw on how things happened. I wasn't going to drive a manual for X years always thinking how an Auto would have been...and vice versa; now -- having chose a manual....I have to weigh the factors of swapping yet again. I haven't driven it full throttle yet to give opinions from that perspective as I may just keep it afterall and am waiting for the 1200 to come by. However, if a super sweet deal comes by for a 2004 with a good value on the 800 miles mine has so far, I may take the jump.

To keep the options open, I also have it up in the private classifieds -- if things do occur, they will occur in the next 2 weeks (3 max).

Here's the post
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....&postid=427315

 

Hmm I'll never get a Sports Car with an Automatic, unless it's the kind of Automatic that's like BMW SMG or Ferrari's Paddle Shifter.. I like to Heel Toe on corners... And I love to double clutch when downshifting so I just can't have an Automatic unless it's the kind mentioned above.

 

You know, I drove the Z4 w/ the SMG (which is really a manual, with a computer clutch. no auto mode at all) and I didn't care much for it. I was starting to get a bit used to it by the end of the test drive, but unless I was real careful with the gas, the thing tended to lurch under partial throttle shifts, and I could shift the 6-speed way smoother.

Why double-clutch on a car with syncros unless your are skipping gears on a downshift? Doesn't seem like it'd get you much...?

 

I usually double clutch when skipping a gear like 5th to 3rd, 4th to 2nd, I just find it easier than plain rev matching.. I only do this when street racing... When going from one gear to a lower one I just rev match.. I heel toe on a lot of turns though... I just got used to it cause I like to practice my heel toe on the streets.

 

I am not sure about all the technical reasons and what not but I had a 2004 Z 5AT and traded it after a week for the TRACK Z! After owning both cars I can say the 6MT is a faster and more powerful car, no doubt about it. no matter what the numbers say. I am much happier with the TRACK than my 5AT touring!

 

AT versus MT has always been more about personal preference than anything. The performance advantage claim is kinda bunk because what the auto gives up to the torque converter (10-14%), it makes up in quicker shifts so the 1/4 miles have always been close. Thankfully, the torque converter is a thing of the past (Sorry, can't say too much more without getting in trouble!) in the auto trannies. This is the culprit for making ATs as bad as they are: I hate cars that move when I don't tell them to (creep), and feel like the engine is connected by Jello! We've been using the wrong technology for the last 50 years...finally they will fix it!

I have always been a MT guy. I refuse to give up my control to a machine. Even though MTs are not really faster than ATs, they certainly feel like it. The response between the foot and the car accelerating is hella better. MTs get better gas mileage, and always have. Manufacturers now are sand-bagging the MT fuel economy numbers to help push the more expensive ATs...which is bull#^%! My sticker said 26MPG, and I got an honest 31.2MPG a few weeks ago. Also, with a MT, you don't have to hit the friggin' brakes to slow down...just let off the gas! I hate random-happy-braking caused by ATs in rush hour! Yeah, my left leg is twice as big as the right one, but at least I have total control of my car. Plus, heel-and-toe sounds so damn cool on the Z!

There will always be those who hate shifting, but hopefully a true F1-style "manu-matic" is just around the corner...then all of us can enjoy the same car! <Of course, I woudn't mind the CVTs if they could handle more power...>

 

you may be surprised to know that the 5AT tranny is 13 lb lighter than the 6MT.

 

I love manual... I love the double clutching and heel/toe... don't think I'll get an auto sportscar unless it's the SMG or Ferrari F1 system

 

I too have driven both, but ours is the 6spd. As someone mentioned, w/the 5AT- there is this constant thrust that I don't feel w/the manual. But, as someone else said, I couldn't own an AT sports car.

 

A lot of it depends on the car. Car's with high peak performance will be a lot slower on an auto. For instance for now I drive a celica the AUTO GTS is about 2 seconds slower then my 6-speed GT-S. In fact it's so much slower that a 5 speed GT will destroy the auto gt-s in the 1/4 mile.

Cars like the GT mustang are generally .5 difference.

As far as the Z goes I don't know enough about it yet but I'd imagine it would be about .2-.4 different.

Sigh can't wait till next year when I get my Z.

 

I have the auto mainly because that was all that was on the lot when I bought my Z, but I would have picked it anyway given the option. I love driving a MT as well and still have one in my 69' Camaro, but for daily city driving the 5AT is perfect. As far as speed and power goes, well there is very little loss in actual rwhp and can easily be made up by adding some mods. The 1/4 mile is an area where the 5AT can shine IMO. Why? Well, since the Z has a nice amount of power at lower rpms and doesn't rely on high rpms for all its power, the 5AT can make for a very easy run through the 1/4. Guys in their 6MTs have to drive that car just right to get a good run. Proper launch, proper shifting, getting the right RPM.... In a 5AT, just give it gas, possibly a little power braking at launch with the right tires, and you will be extremely consistent through the 1/4. For those who really want a 1/4 mile car, get the 5AT and and all the power mods + NOS or FI and let it rip!! If you had two Zs modded the same, one with 5AT and the other a 6MT, and said best out of 5 wins. Who would you put your money on?

 

Definitely the auto is better for drag racing. I went to the strip for the first time and entered the bracket race. I won some $. Because of consistent times. I know how to drive stick but I have no regrets having the tiptronic. If it was a 4sp auto with no option to shift,I wouldve regret it.

 

As with anything I would say depends on the driver. IF it's a skilled driver in the MT without a doubt I would take that. Main area you lose in the AT is at launch unless you want to be rough on your engine. So yes if it's a skilled driver I'd take the MT.

 

who cares. As long as you're in a Z