What's up with the paint on the Z???
09-02-2002, 04:00 PM
#61
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I detailed at a Mercedes/Nissan dealership for two years, and as far as OP, the Mercedes were no better. In fact that was the first time I noticed it on a newer car. To the best of my knowledge, all of the cars coming in had it to some degree. My silverstone has it slightly. Really you only have a few options:
1. Refuse your car if it is too bad in the hopes you can find one that doesn't have OP (unlikely)
2. Have it wetsanded, buffed, polished, waxed (expensive, risky and a bad idea in the long run as has already been posted)
3. 2+having it reclear-coated (more expensive and you might get OP again the same or worse)
4. Accept it and love your car - imperfect as it may be
1. Refuse your car if it is too bad in the hopes you can find one that doesn't have OP (unlikely)
2. Have it wetsanded, buffed, polished, waxed (expensive, risky and a bad idea in the long run as has already been posted)
3. 2+having it reclear-coated (more expensive and you might get OP again the same or worse)
4. Accept it and love your car - imperfect as it may be
09-02-2002, 06:13 PM
#62
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I don't see wnat the big problem with light orange peal is, I saw it on a Black Z last weekend and I actually looked pretty cool, as long as it is fine and uniform I don't see it as a major problem as 99.9% of the pop will never notice it or will really care
09-02-2002, 06:16 PM
#63
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Originally posted by PhoenixINX
No, they don't. Just for reference, cars that have rolled through our garage that I can GUARANTEE had no peel. For new cars, both the `02 Acura CL-S, `02 Honda CR-V, and `99 Mitsubishi Eclipse, have ZERO oranage peel. Looking at the older cars, `93 Camry, `91 Civic, still... no peel.
Nissan rushed the paintjob on this car, plain and simple. As for the comment, "On Par with a BMW paintjob"?!?!?! You must be kidding me...
No, they don't. Just for reference, cars that have rolled through our garage that I can GUARANTEE had no peel. For new cars, both the `02 Acura CL-S, `02 Honda CR-V, and `99 Mitsubishi Eclipse, have ZERO oranage peel. Looking at the older cars, `93 Camry, `91 Civic, still... no peel.
Nissan rushed the paintjob on this car, plain and simple. As for the comment, "On Par with a BMW paintjob"?!?!?! You must be kidding me...
09-07-2002, 09:57 AM
#66
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I hope to see what the inspector says on Monday. I also have some comparison pics of the blue with the silver that was there, but I need to head to the office now to get some work done.
Any other DB owners have comments?
Any other DB owners have comments?
09-07-2002, 10:05 AM
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I have decided to wait till late next year to get my Z car. My Eclipse has terrible paint problems, and I am not yet ready to face that on another new car. I just hope Nissan will be more apt to fix the problem than Mitsu has.
09-07-2002, 10:20 AM
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FWIW:
Originally posted by HEUGE
I hope to see what the inspector says on Monday. I also have some comparison pics of the blue with the silver that was there, but I need to head to the office now to get some work done.
Any other DB owners have comments?
I hope to see what the inspector says on Monday. I also have some comparison pics of the blue with the silver that was there, but I need to head to the office now to get some work done.
Any other DB owners have comments?
If you go for repaint you may have to live with other faults caused by the shop that does the work. I personally would live with it and enjoy the car.
Be careful what you ask for...you just may get it,
and then some!
09-07-2002, 10:38 AM
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RxO
I am glad to hear from you. I agree with you that a respray is generally unacceptable since you can rarely get a paint job done as well as factory. Unfortunately the paint from the factory has some other problems like streaks (contact to the paint) and drips that have been covered with clearcoat.
The first thing that people saw when they walked up to the car at the dealer were the paint streaks. The second thing they saw was the orange peel. At first I thought that I was alone seeing these problems, but I really was not.
The rest of the car is perfect, but the paint quality will still be on my mind year-after-year. I will say that Monday will be a good day to decide my car's fate.
I am glad to hear from you. I agree with you that a respray is generally unacceptable since you can rarely get a paint job done as well as factory. Unfortunately the paint from the factory has some other problems like streaks (contact to the paint) and drips that have been covered with clearcoat.
The first thing that people saw when they walked up to the car at the dealer were the paint streaks. The second thing they saw was the orange peel. At first I thought that I was alone seeing these problems, but I really was not.
The rest of the car is perfect, but the paint quality will still be on my mind year-after-year. I will say that Monday will be a good day to decide my car's fate.
09-07-2002, 06:01 PM
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That is sad
It really angers me that a car can come from the factory with paint like that, not to mention the other defects you mentioned.
I feel the quality of the paint reflects the quality of the rest of the car as well.
It's funny all the DB Zs we've seen in the previous couple months looked flawless. Now that there actually being delivered we get this crap.
If my DB comes in looking like this one I will be pizzed off and will not accept it and well opt for a different manufacture for all my future vehicles.
The S2000s I've inspected had perfect paint as well as the C5s.
This makes me sick, cause I have a feeling mine will be the same damn thing. I don't know if it's even worth waiting for it to come in.
I feel the quality of the paint reflects the quality of the rest of the car as well.
It's funny all the DB Zs we've seen in the previous couple months looked flawless. Now that there actually being delivered we get this crap.
If my DB comes in looking like this one I will be pizzed off and will not accept it and well opt for a different manufacture for all my future vehicles.
The S2000s I've inspected had perfect paint as well as the C5s.
This makes me sick, cause I have a feeling mine will be the same damn thing. I don't know if it's even worth waiting for it to come in.
Last edited by Zoro; 09-07-2002 at 06:08 PM.
09-07-2002, 06:47 PM
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I've been all over my new Silverstone in bright sunlight, and found no orange-peel. Maybe a fluke, since even the Bose works right in this one, but brake dust is going to be a regular issue on these light-colored rims.
Less than 200 mi. into breakin, and I've already had to discipline a couple of Boxters, without even cracking the 4000 RPM ceiling. Real nice paint, though.
Z33 - Silverstone/Touring/6MT
Less than 200 mi. into breakin, and I've already had to discipline a couple of Boxters, without even cracking the 4000 RPM ceiling. Real nice paint, though.
Z33 - Silverstone/Touring/6MT
09-07-2002, 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by HEUGE
I am having the dealer PDI my car and an inspector look at the orange peel on my Daytona Blue. I do think that the orange peel is a bit excessive.
I am having the dealer PDI my car and an inspector look at the orange peel on my Daytona Blue. I do think that the orange peel is a bit excessive.
It's a pity you did not catch that before you took delivery. As mentioned, the solutions now are not all that attractive to get rid of it.
From the 4-6 Z's I've seen so far, it's real hit and miss but the blues are seemingly the worse. Any metallic color is a risk.
I have not seen enough photos of the LeMans Sunset (which is what I ordered) but will not accept the car if it's that bad.
I do sincerely hope you find a workable solution or can just live with it and enjoy the car. It's a great car either way.
09-07-2002, 08:28 PM
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Actually, orange peel is caused by paint that is too THICK when it is applied. It doesn't flow to a smooth and level surface. Paint that is too thin will run or sag. Painters would usually rather have a little peel than runs. Runs have to be sanded and re-painted.
I don't see why new paints would tend to do this. It's all about getting the correct viscosity and shooting the correct volume of paint onto the car.
Whoever said they would rather apply two thick coats instead of three thin coats is probably right. A thick coat of low viscosity paint will surely run.
A body shop or professional detailer can remove orange peel by lightly spraying the car with a contrasting color and then wet sanding until the contrast color just disappears. This process ensures that they just remove the high spots, no more.
I think, personally, I would wait until the paint starts to show a bit of wear before color sanding. Removing paint will reduce the life of the paint job.
-TB
I don't see why new paints would tend to do this. It's all about getting the correct viscosity and shooting the correct volume of paint onto the car.
Whoever said they would rather apply two thick coats instead of three thin coats is probably right. A thick coat of low viscosity paint will surely run.
A body shop or professional detailer can remove orange peel by lightly spraying the car with a contrasting color and then wet sanding until the contrast color just disappears. This process ensures that they just remove the high spots, no more.
I think, personally, I would wait until the paint starts to show a bit of wear before color sanding. Removing paint will reduce the life of the paint job.
-TB
Originally posted by Z&Jet-Pilot
On the Z (and most cars) it the vertical surfaces and then mostly the doors. It's rare to have really bad peel on the hood, roof or rear deck.
One cause of Orange Peel is the paint being applied too wet and dripping, ever so slightly, before drying; hence the more you will see on vertical surfaces (gravity doing it's thing). Even a very slight amount of peel is noticable.
If the surface does not look like glass (or wet) you have peel. If your car looks great wet and not quite the same dry, then you probably has a very minor amount of O.P. That's the easiest way to tell.
It used to drive me nuts that no matter how much waxing I did I could never get it to look like it does when I just run water over the finish. Now I know why!
On the Z (and most cars) it the vertical surfaces and then mostly the doors. It's rare to have really bad peel on the hood, roof or rear deck.
One cause of Orange Peel is the paint being applied too wet and dripping, ever so slightly, before drying; hence the more you will see on vertical surfaces (gravity doing it's thing). Even a very slight amount of peel is noticable.
If the surface does not look like glass (or wet) you have peel. If your car looks great wet and not quite the same dry, then you probably has a very minor amount of O.P. That's the easiest way to tell.
It used to drive me nuts that no matter how much waxing I did I could never get it to look like it does when I just run water over the finish. Now I know why!
09-07-2002, 09:14 PM
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Paint
When I was picking up my Brickyard, the contract showed $299 for PDI and $99 for documents. My comment to my salesman was it was excessive and a hidden charge. He went back to the finance people and came back with $100 knocked off. I decided my time was worth more than wrangling about $300. I had already seen the car and I could not detect any flaws in the paint at all.
Maybe they did do a PDI worth the extra money since Brickyard is my color. Several serious car people (used car dealers) told me the color was beautiful, so I'll check it more thoroughly while I'm taking pictures tomorrow, but I don't expect to find anything. After the test drive, my salesman had me park it right out front in a very prominent spot. Finance, sales, service personnel had all seen the car, I got congrats from about 15 people working at the dealership. We shall see what the pics reveal, but I ain't giving up my Z for any painting, polishing or any other method discussed here. Even if I do detect some orange peel I don't care, the car is that good for me. Man can it purr at low revs and wail at higher revs, still 4000 or less; when I can open it up, look out.
Boomer
Maybe they did do a PDI worth the extra money since Brickyard is my color. Several serious car people (used car dealers) told me the color was beautiful, so I'll check it more thoroughly while I'm taking pictures tomorrow, but I don't expect to find anything. After the test drive, my salesman had me park it right out front in a very prominent spot. Finance, sales, service personnel had all seen the car, I got congrats from about 15 people working at the dealership. We shall see what the pics reveal, but I ain't giving up my Z for any painting, polishing or any other method discussed here. Even if I do detect some orange peel I don't care, the car is that good for me. Man can it purr at low revs and wail at higher revs, still 4000 or less; when I can open it up, look out.
Boomer
Last edited by Boomer; 09-07-2002 at 09:25 PM.
09-08-2002, 04:45 AM
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The daytona blue car I saw yesterday at a local car show was a production model and it only had a slight degree of peel. It was hardly noticeable (note that the peel is harder to see in certain lighting conditions - in fact it was either not present or invisible on the side of the car that was exposed to the sun).
09-08-2002, 09:16 AM
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Thanks for the support guys. Well, although I am chomping at the bit to get my car for this beautiful weekend weather, I asked to wait for the results of Monday's clean-up and inspection before taking delivery. I have also held-off final payment until I see the results, and it's killing me. That's the only logical thing that I could ask for yesterday.
The dealer has been responsive, and they are taking this issue very seriously. One possibility is that I am overreacting to the paint, and they have mentioned the option of ordering another to see if the paint is any better, but I would need to wait until at-least December when that will arrive.
Here's the comparison pics of the blue vs the silver on the sunny-side mirror. The angle was slightly off, but perhaps you can see the differences. This angle does not look as bad as the other shots, but the silver still looks far cleaner and clearer.
The dealer has been responsive, and they are taking this issue very seriously. One possibility is that I am overreacting to the paint, and they have mentioned the option of ordering another to see if the paint is any better, but I would need to wait until at-least December when that will arrive.
Here's the comparison pics of the blue vs the silver on the sunny-side mirror. The angle was slightly off, but perhaps you can see the differences. This angle does not look as bad as the other shots, but the silver still looks far cleaner and clearer.