Now that the V6 Mustang spanks the Z...
06-27-2010 | 06:29 AM
#281
i use to have an 04 mustang.. im not hating and mine had the worst body roll... couldnt take turns to save its azz.. the Z feels 100x better.. but if the stang is your cup of tea by all means buy it..
BTW i cant believe no one posted the VTEC video where the guy talks chit to the mustang owners lol
BTW i cant believe no one posted the VTEC video where the guy talks chit to the mustang owners lol
06-27-2010 | 06:29 AM
#282
http://www.scca.com/newsarticle.aspx?hub=4&news=3919
Former Winners
Year: Driver, Team Car
2009: Cliff Ebben, Lamers, Ford Mustang
2005: Klaus Graf, Rocketsports, Jaguar XKR
2004: Tom Kendall, Rocketsports, Jaguar XKR
2003: Scott Pruett, Rocketsports, Jaguar XKR
2002: Boris Said, ACS, Panoz Esperante
2001: Michael Lewis, Lewis, Jaguar XKR
2000: Paul Gentilozzi, Rocketsports, Jaguar XKR
1999: Paul Gentilozzi, Rocketsports, Ford Mustang
1998: Stu Hayner, White, Chevrolet Camaro
1997: Tom Kendall, Roush, Ford Mustang
1996: Tom Kendall, Roush, Ford Mustang
1995: Boris Said, Gloy, Ford Mustang
1994: Dorsey Schroeder, Gloy, Ford Mustang
1993: Scott Sharp, McCall, Chevrolet Camaro
1992: Ron Fellows, Gloy, Ford Mustang
1991: Scott Sharp, McCall, Chevrolet Camaro
1990: Tom Kendall, C&C, Chevrolet Beretta
1989: Dorsey Schroeder, Roush, Ford Mustang
1988: Scott Pruett, Roush, Mercury Merkur XR4ti
1987: Pete Halsmer, Roush, Mercury Merkur XR4ti
1986: Pete Halsmer, Roush, Mercury Merkur XR4ti
1985: ***** T. Ribbs, Roush, Mercury Capri
1984: Richard Spenard, DeAtley, Chevrolet Corvette
1983: David Hobbs, DeAtley, Chevrolet Camaro
1982: Jerry Hansen, Hansen, Chevrolet Corvette
1981: Monte Shelton, Shelton, Porsche 930
1980: Monte Shelton, Shelton, Porsche 911 SC
1979: Peter Gregg, Leven, Porsche 935 Turbo (Group 2)
Gene Bothello, Bothello, Chevrolet Corvette (Group 1)
1978: Greg Pickett, Pickett, Chevrolet Corvette 427 (Group 2)
Bob Tullius, Group 44, Jaguar XJS (Group 1)
1977: Race 1: Ludwig Heimrath, Heimrath, Porsche 934 (Group 2)
Race 1: Tom Bagley, Oftedahl, Chevrolet Camaro (Group 1)
Race 2: Peter Gregg, Brumos, Porsche 934 (Group 2)
Race 2: Bob Tullius, Group 44, Jaguar XJS (group 1)
1976: Carl Shafer, Shafer, Chevrolet Camaro (Group 2)
Don Hager, Hager, Chevrolet Corvette (Group 1)
1975: Jerry Hansen, Hansen, Chevrolet Corvette
1974: Peter Gregg, Brumos, Porsche Carrera
1973: John Greenwood, Greenwood, Chevrolet Corvette
1972: Warren Tope, Tope, Ford Mustang
1971: Mark Donohue, Penske, AMC Javelin
1970: Horst Kwech, Wetson, Alfa Romeo GTA (U2)
Mark Donohue, Penske, AMC Javelin (O2)
POLE WINNERS
Year: Driver, Car
2009: Tony Ave, Chevrolet Corvette
2005: Klaus Graf, Jaguar XKR
2004: Randy Ruhlman, Chevrolet Corvette
2003: Johnny Miller IV, Jaguar XKR
2002: Kenny Wilden, Chevrolet Corvette
2001: Paul Gentilozzi, Jaguar XKR
2000: Johnny Miller IV, Chevrolet Corvette
1999: Brian Simo, Ford Mustang
1998: Paul Gentilozzi, Chevrolet Corvette
1997: Dorsey Schroeder, Ford Mustang
1996: Tom Kendall, Ford Mustang
1995: Tom Kendall, Ford Mustang
1994: Scott Sharp, Chevrolet Camaro
1993: Scott Sharp, Chevrolet Camaro
1992: Jack Baldwin, Chevrolet Camaro
1991: Scott Sharp, Chevrolet Camaro
1990: Tom Kendall, Chevrolet Beretta
1989: Dorsey Schroeder, Ford Mustang
1988: Scott Pruett, Mercury Merkur XR4ti
1987: Scott Pruett, Mercury Merkur XR4ti
1986: Pete Halsmer, Mercury Merkur XR4ti
1985: PL Newman, Nissan 300ZX Turbo
1984: Bob Lobenberg, Pontiac Trans Am
1983: David Hobbs, Chevrolet Camaro
1982: Jerry Hansen, Chevrolet Corvette
1981: Monte Shelton, Porsche 930
1980: Greg Pickett, Chevrolet Corvette
1979: John Paul Sr. Porsche 935 Turbo (Group 2)
Bill Adam, Chevrolet Corvette (Group 1)
1978: Greg Pickett, Chevrolet Corvette 427 (Group 2)
Frank Joyce, Chevrolet Corvette (Group 1)
1977: Race 1: Peter Gregg, Porsche 934 (Group 2)
Race 1: John Huber, Chevrolet Corvette (Group 1)
1976: Carl Shafer, Chevrolet Camaro (Group 2)
Jocko Maggiacomo, AMC Javelin (Group 1)
1975: Jerry Hansen, Chevrolet Corvette
1974: John Greenwood, Chevrolet Corvette
1973: Warren Agor, Chevrolet Camaro
1972: George Follmer, AMC Javelin
1971: Mark Donohue, AMC Javelin
1970: Horst Kwech, Alfa Romeo GTA (U2)
Mark Donohue, AMC Javelin (O2)
Year: Driver, Team Car
2009: Cliff Ebben, Lamers, Ford Mustang
2005: Klaus Graf, Rocketsports, Jaguar XKR
2004: Tom Kendall, Rocketsports, Jaguar XKR
2003: Scott Pruett, Rocketsports, Jaguar XKR
2002: Boris Said, ACS, Panoz Esperante
2001: Michael Lewis, Lewis, Jaguar XKR
2000: Paul Gentilozzi, Rocketsports, Jaguar XKR
1999: Paul Gentilozzi, Rocketsports, Ford Mustang
1998: Stu Hayner, White, Chevrolet Camaro
1997: Tom Kendall, Roush, Ford Mustang
1996: Tom Kendall, Roush, Ford Mustang
1995: Boris Said, Gloy, Ford Mustang
1994: Dorsey Schroeder, Gloy, Ford Mustang
1993: Scott Sharp, McCall, Chevrolet Camaro
1992: Ron Fellows, Gloy, Ford Mustang
1991: Scott Sharp, McCall, Chevrolet Camaro
1990: Tom Kendall, C&C, Chevrolet Beretta
1989: Dorsey Schroeder, Roush, Ford Mustang
1988: Scott Pruett, Roush, Mercury Merkur XR4ti
1987: Pete Halsmer, Roush, Mercury Merkur XR4ti
1986: Pete Halsmer, Roush, Mercury Merkur XR4ti
1985: ***** T. Ribbs, Roush, Mercury Capri
1984: Richard Spenard, DeAtley, Chevrolet Corvette
1983: David Hobbs, DeAtley, Chevrolet Camaro
1982: Jerry Hansen, Hansen, Chevrolet Corvette
1981: Monte Shelton, Shelton, Porsche 930
1980: Monte Shelton, Shelton, Porsche 911 SC
1979: Peter Gregg, Leven, Porsche 935 Turbo (Group 2)
Gene Bothello, Bothello, Chevrolet Corvette (Group 1)
1978: Greg Pickett, Pickett, Chevrolet Corvette 427 (Group 2)
Bob Tullius, Group 44, Jaguar XJS (Group 1)
1977: Race 1: Ludwig Heimrath, Heimrath, Porsche 934 (Group 2)
Race 1: Tom Bagley, Oftedahl, Chevrolet Camaro (Group 1)
Race 2: Peter Gregg, Brumos, Porsche 934 (Group 2)
Race 2: Bob Tullius, Group 44, Jaguar XJS (group 1)
1976: Carl Shafer, Shafer, Chevrolet Camaro (Group 2)
Don Hager, Hager, Chevrolet Corvette (Group 1)
1975: Jerry Hansen, Hansen, Chevrolet Corvette
1974: Peter Gregg, Brumos, Porsche Carrera
1973: John Greenwood, Greenwood, Chevrolet Corvette
1972: Warren Tope, Tope, Ford Mustang
1971: Mark Donohue, Penske, AMC Javelin
1970: Horst Kwech, Wetson, Alfa Romeo GTA (U2)
Mark Donohue, Penske, AMC Javelin (O2)
POLE WINNERS
Year: Driver, Car
2009: Tony Ave, Chevrolet Corvette
2005: Klaus Graf, Jaguar XKR
2004: Randy Ruhlman, Chevrolet Corvette
2003: Johnny Miller IV, Jaguar XKR
2002: Kenny Wilden, Chevrolet Corvette
2001: Paul Gentilozzi, Jaguar XKR
2000: Johnny Miller IV, Chevrolet Corvette
1999: Brian Simo, Ford Mustang
1998: Paul Gentilozzi, Chevrolet Corvette
1997: Dorsey Schroeder, Ford Mustang
1996: Tom Kendall, Ford Mustang
1995: Tom Kendall, Ford Mustang
1994: Scott Sharp, Chevrolet Camaro
1993: Scott Sharp, Chevrolet Camaro
1992: Jack Baldwin, Chevrolet Camaro
1991: Scott Sharp, Chevrolet Camaro
1990: Tom Kendall, Chevrolet Beretta
1989: Dorsey Schroeder, Ford Mustang
1988: Scott Pruett, Mercury Merkur XR4ti
1987: Scott Pruett, Mercury Merkur XR4ti
1986: Pete Halsmer, Mercury Merkur XR4ti
1985: PL Newman, Nissan 300ZX Turbo
1984: Bob Lobenberg, Pontiac Trans Am
1983: David Hobbs, Chevrolet Camaro
1982: Jerry Hansen, Chevrolet Corvette
1981: Monte Shelton, Porsche 930
1980: Greg Pickett, Chevrolet Corvette
1979: John Paul Sr. Porsche 935 Turbo (Group 2)
Bill Adam, Chevrolet Corvette (Group 1)
1978: Greg Pickett, Chevrolet Corvette 427 (Group 2)
Frank Joyce, Chevrolet Corvette (Group 1)
1977: Race 1: Peter Gregg, Porsche 934 (Group 2)
Race 1: John Huber, Chevrolet Corvette (Group 1)
1976: Carl Shafer, Chevrolet Camaro (Group 2)
Jocko Maggiacomo, AMC Javelin (Group 1)
1975: Jerry Hansen, Chevrolet Corvette
1974: John Greenwood, Chevrolet Corvette
1973: Warren Agor, Chevrolet Camaro
1972: George Follmer, AMC Javelin
1971: Mark Donohue, AMC Javelin
1970: Horst Kwech, Alfa Romeo GTA (U2)
Mark Donohue, AMC Javelin (O2)
06-27-2010 | 06:56 AM
#286
06-27-2010 | 07:19 AM
#287
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Florida
The new Mustangs are getting great reviews. Fast, good handling and the quality seems much improved.
I just read a review of the Ferrari 599GTO, fast, good handling and very comfortable.
I read a review of the Corvette Gran Sport, fast, good handling, etc.
My 07 350z GT, fast, good handling, etc.
I like my car. If I got tired of it I would consider the Vette or the Mustang, several others as well.
Its all good!
I just read a review of the Ferrari 599GTO, fast, good handling and very comfortable.
I read a review of the Corvette Gran Sport, fast, good handling, etc.
My 07 350z GT, fast, good handling, etc.
I like my car. If I got tired of it I would consider the Vette or the Mustang, several others as well.
Its all good!
06-27-2010 | 08:07 AM
#288
06-27-2010 | 10:02 AM
#289
Registered User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
This. Completely invalidates your point.
You're not going to find a serious driver who wouldn't rather be behind the wheel of a 350/370z than a Mustang in the twisties. Besides, the 2011 V6 mustang is slightly quicker than a 03-05 350z (which can be found for under $13,000 now), and slightly slower than an 07-08 350z w/HR engine, which can be found for under $19,000. I really don't see your argument. There are people running 13.1-13.2's in stock HR 350z's.. and a stock 370z (if we compare 2011 vs 2011 model year, which we should) is markedly quicker than a new v6 mustang. You really don't have a valid point.
You're not going to find a serious driver who wouldn't rather be behind the wheel of a 350/370z than a Mustang in the twisties. Besides, the 2011 V6 mustang is slightly quicker than a 03-05 350z (which can be found for under $13,000 now), and slightly slower than an 07-08 350z w/HR engine, which can be found for under $19,000. I really don't see your argument. There are people running 13.1-13.2's in stock HR 350z's.. and a stock 370z (if we compare 2011 vs 2011 model year, which we should) is markedly quicker than a new v6 mustang. You really don't have a valid point.
06-27-2010 | 10:11 AM
#290
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
From: Bellevue, WA
First of all, Mustangs are not sports cars. They are classed as "Pony Cars" because they have horrible handling characteristics. The racing versions you see usually have a heavily modified suspension.
Really? Good handling? The Mustang doesn't have a proper rear suspension, it CAN'T have good handling - the classic "solid rear axle". Here you have a car where the rear wheels are physically bound together by an inflexible metal rod. Most sports cars, including the Z, have an independent rear suspension because solid rear axles are crap.
Are they still using a solid rear axle in 2010? Oh my, yes, they are! The reason, dear friends, is because solid rear axles turn better 0-60 mph numbers at the straight line. They have less wheel hop and do not have to deal with bumps. On the track, they are garbage.
http://www.edmunds.com/ford/mustang/2010/review.html
Are they still using a solid rear axle in 2010? Oh my, yes, they are! The reason, dear friends, is because solid rear axles turn better 0-60 mph numbers at the straight line. They have less wheel hop and do not have to deal with bumps. On the track, they are garbage.
http://www.edmunds.com/ford/mustang/2010/review.html
In the handling department, the 2010 Ford Mustang infamously utilizes an old-school solid-axle rear suspension that helps keep costs down
Last edited by MaelstrØm; 06-27-2010 at 10:15 AM.
06-27-2010 | 05:26 PM
#292
350Z-holic
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,502
Likes: 22
From: NC
if you are going to quote an article, at least quote the whole sentence.
As far as being a live axle, yes it has limitations. But on track is is very compitant. It's on the public roads is where is suffers due to irregular surfaces and such.
As far as being “heavily modified” in the other racing series such as the Koni Challenge and such, it’s suppose to be the same 3 link panhard setup as the current track model except for spring and strut rates. The new 3 link system is nothing like the systems of old. When Ford switched it in 2010 it changed the whole handling characteristics of the car.
Then again people still ding the C6 Z06 for having leaf springs.
And yes, I do drive them on road courses…both the Z’s and Mustangs….in competition. How many others here can say they have done a true all out comparison?
If you want to bash them because you don't like the looks or the interior or what ever is your personal opinion then go for it. But those who are bashing the car, know the facts and not the rumors.
Edit to tone down my response.
In the handling department, the 2010 Ford Mustang infamously utilizes an old-school solid-axle rear suspension that helps keep costs down, yet Ford has managed to endow the Mustang with a fairly comfortable ride and responsive handling, particularly in GT trim. The TrackPack makes the Mustang even sharper, though you still won't confuse this American throwback with high-tech handlers like the 370Z, RX-8, 128i and Genesis Coupe.
As far as being “heavily modified” in the other racing series such as the Koni Challenge and such, it’s suppose to be the same 3 link panhard setup as the current track model except for spring and strut rates. The new 3 link system is nothing like the systems of old. When Ford switched it in 2010 it changed the whole handling characteristics of the car.
Then again people still ding the C6 Z06 for having leaf springs.
And yes, I do drive them on road courses…both the Z’s and Mustangs….in competition. How many others here can say they have done a true all out comparison?
If you want to bash them because you don't like the looks or the interior or what ever is your personal opinion then go for it. But those who are bashing the car, know the facts and not the rumors.
Edit to tone down my response.
Last edited by mhoward1; 06-27-2010 at 08:39 PM.
06-27-2010 | 08:01 PM
#293
If my Z was dated like OP's I'd feel like driving something else too lmao jk.
But in all seriousness, I stopped reading at the part where the guy with a GT500 comparing his car to a Z? lol. $50,000 Mustang...VS....$30,000 Z. I'd hope it would be faster/better for a 20k price difference.
That would be like my brother comparing his IS-F to my 350z, way different class, way different price tag, way different styles. Dollar for Dollar the Z holds its own against similar priced cars.
But in all seriousness, I stopped reading at the part where the guy with a GT500 comparing his car to a Z? lol. $50,000 Mustang...VS....$30,000 Z. I'd hope it would be faster/better for a 20k price difference.
That would be like my brother comparing his IS-F to my 350z, way different class, way different price tag, way different styles. Dollar for Dollar the Z holds its own against similar priced cars.
Last edited by RedlineAZ; 06-27-2010 at 08:18 PM.
06-27-2010 | 08:35 PM
#294
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,998
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas
First of all, Mustangs are not sports cars. They are classed as "Pony Cars" because they have horrible handling characteristics. The racing versions you see usually have a heavily modified suspension.
Really? Good handling? The Mustang doesn't have a proper rear suspension, it CAN'T have good handling - the classic "solid rear axle". Here you have a car where the rear wheels are physically bound together by an inflexible metal rod. Most sports cars, including the Z, have an independent rear suspension because solid rear axles are crap.
Are they still using a solid rear axle in 2010? Oh my, yes, they are! The reason, dear friends, is because solid rear axles turn better 0-60 mph numbers at the straight line. They have less wheel hop and do not have to deal with bumps. On the track, they are garbage.
http://www.edmunds.com/ford/mustang/2010/review.html
Really? Good handling? The Mustang doesn't have a proper rear suspension, it CAN'T have good handling - the classic "solid rear axle". Here you have a car where the rear wheels are physically bound together by an inflexible metal rod. Most sports cars, including the Z, have an independent rear suspension because solid rear axles are crap.
Are they still using a solid rear axle in 2010? Oh my, yes, they are! The reason, dear friends, is because solid rear axles turn better 0-60 mph numbers at the straight line. They have less wheel hop and do not have to deal with bumps. On the track, they are garbage.
http://www.edmunds.com/ford/mustang/2010/review.html
06-27-2010 | 09:24 PM
#295
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
From: Bellevue, WA
I know more than I care to about them - I drove a Mustang GT for about a year (granted it was a while back). The live axle was obvious, and would lead to wheelspin and wheelhop on corners. A strut and shock configuration can help, but *nothing* will fix the basic fact that the axle pushes feedback from side to side and changes the angle of the wheel to the surface.
Any Mustang owner worth his salt would know that there were a few years and configurations that had a fully independent rear suspension, and they were coveted for that setup (late 90s Cobras). However, it took at away from the straight line 0-60 or 0-100 times.
Even the poster above who says he drove them competitively admits they aren't as good as a properly tuned independent rear suspension.
The rule for Mustangs is this:
If you want a drag strip car or a GT cruiser, then keep your live axle.
If you want an autocross car, then you put in the independent suspension. (either aftermarket or from a Cobra)
As I said, anyone who knows Mustangs can tell you this. Just go spend time on any Mustang forum, and I'm sure they spend all day asking how they put an IRS into their live axle car. Just as 350z owners spend all day asking how to install a supercharger.
Any Mustang owner worth his salt would know that there were a few years and configurations that had a fully independent rear suspension, and they were coveted for that setup (late 90s Cobras). However, it took at away from the straight line 0-60 or 0-100 times.
Even the poster above who says he drove them competitively admits they aren't as good as a properly tuned independent rear suspension.
The rule for Mustangs is this:
If you want a drag strip car or a GT cruiser, then keep your live axle.
If you want an autocross car, then you put in the independent suspension. (either aftermarket or from a Cobra)
As I said, anyone who knows Mustangs can tell you this. Just go spend time on any Mustang forum, and I'm sure they spend all day asking how they put an IRS into their live axle car. Just as 350z owners spend all day asking how to install a supercharger.
Last edited by MaelstrØm; 06-27-2010 at 09:37 PM.
06-28-2010 | 02:08 AM
#296
I can't believe this thread has lasted more than 6 pages. 
1) OP: If you are worried so much about getting "spanked" then it's time for you to change cars. This is a sure sign of personal insecurity as you are too focused on other opinions.
2) Mustang production will be in the millions before they change bodies again. The V6 and the V8 Mustangs look similar and even now are an everyday sight. Since you depend on the opinions of others, keep in mind that you really have to spend a lot on that car before it is considered unique enough to turn heads.
I live 10 miles from Dearbon, Michigan. (Home to Ford Motor Company HQ.) Heck, my wife even works at Ford HQ and she drives a Mazda RX-8. The point is that there are tons of Mustangs out here cruising up and down Woodward Avenue. However, it is my Z that other drivers give me the "thumbs up" or kids glue to the windows to see me go by. An entire Mustang generation has come and gone before they become competitive. By the time Nissan replaces the 370Z, maybe Nissan will again have moved the benchmark well out of the reach of V-6 Mustangs. I think it's time for Nissan to bring back the Turbocharged Z.
1) OP: If you are worried so much about getting "spanked" then it's time for you to change cars. This is a sure sign of personal insecurity as you are too focused on other opinions.
2) Mustang production will be in the millions before they change bodies again. The V6 and the V8 Mustangs look similar and even now are an everyday sight. Since you depend on the opinions of others, keep in mind that you really have to spend a lot on that car before it is considered unique enough to turn heads.
I live 10 miles from Dearbon, Michigan. (Home to Ford Motor Company HQ.) Heck, my wife even works at Ford HQ and she drives a Mazda RX-8. The point is that there are tons of Mustangs out here cruising up and down Woodward Avenue. However, it is my Z that other drivers give me the "thumbs up" or kids glue to the windows to see me go by. An entire Mustang generation has come and gone before they become competitive. By the time Nissan replaces the 370Z, maybe Nissan will again have moved the benchmark well out of the reach of V-6 Mustangs. I think it's time for Nissan to bring back the Turbocharged Z.
06-28-2010 | 02:27 AM
#297
06-28-2010 | 03:14 AM
#299
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