tranZition

How does the 350z compare to the subaru WRX? Has anyone here driven both? I've been a big fan of the WRX, but at the same time, am really digging the new Z...

I know some may say it's like like apples and oranges comparing an AWD sport compact to the RWD sports car that is the Z, but in price they are rather similar... It's also tough going back and forth between a (factory) turbocharged 4 banger, vs. a 3.5 litre V6....(--especially since I have not yet driven the 350z)....

So what do you guys (who have driven both) think? can you even compare the two? I see a lot of potential in upgrading the WRX... but at the same time, a 6-speed V6 is quite tempting.....


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www.strictlyz.com

LS350Z

I find the WRXs performance about one step above its god aweful interior. Sure it gets off the line fast with a 5000+ rpm clutch dump but after 80mph it's a dog. Handling on the WRX is terrible and the only thing that helps it is the AWD. Honestly, I find the WRX to be the most overpriced car sold today and might rival those who spent $22k+ on a 02 Civic Si.

With that being said, I have driven a couple highly modified WRXs before that although the 0-100 is phenominal I still couldn't get past the gawdy interior, the terrible suspension, and lack-luster body styling to enjoy myself (although I find the wagon WRX to be quite sexy).

Maybe I need to strip one down and rallycross one of these to enjoy myelf.

I have to say the WRX was by far my biggest dissapointment in new car releases in the past 10 years.

skooly

Shhhh, not so loud, or the WRX fanboys will invade, and you'll never hear the end of it...

WRX aint a bad car for the money, if it weren't so damn fugly..

rai

I have not driven the WRX, but the whole car (minus the drivetrain) is truly a $14K economy car. The trunk and doors sound like tin cans when you shut them.

The car magazines really do not find the WRX as bad as LS350Z. Automobile named it the car of the year (over the M3). I really don't think that $23-24K is overpriced for that kind of performance. But look at the Z for $27-30K and you get a lot more car for the extra money IMO. Alos the Z looks better and the interior although it is not as good as an audi is a step above the WRX.

The only thing the WRX has going for it is the ease of modification, that is the computer chip can add a lot of hp for not a lot of money. But I would be afraid of long term reliabitity if the turbo was pumped up too much.

Chris

I havent driven a 350 but I have driven my friends stock WRX. The WRX is a monster at speeds <80 I honestly dont think it's a bad car at all. The steering I found to be very sharp it felt almost as good if not = to the steering on an S4 that I once drove. All in all i dont think the looks of the WRX could compare to the Z but the fun factor will probably be about equal.

tranZition

well, aside from the looks (the WRX is a bit of an "aquired taste"), how do you think the car compares on the street?

(again, for those that've driven both...)

Liquiid Ice

Ive driven a WRX and its nothing special. The brake pedal sucks a$$. its like a feather, who ever designed it should be shot. at first i thought it wasnt hooked up. till i practically put it to the floor. And whats up with all those doors? I know its a Rally Car and all but i only want 2 doors, so people shouldnt try and make it into a Sports Car. If i had to chose between the WRX and Z i would take the Z in a second.

Aldous

i really didn't like it...kind of a soccer moms sports car...felt very cramped in the cockpit..it was like your legs were in a coffin or something...hard to explain

jigga

Hey guys - Regarding the WRX, I own one, and do agree with a few of your statements.... The interior can be compared to those of Honda Civics and what not. This should not be a suprise to any of you since the WRX is a turbocharged 2.0L variant of the 2.5RS (which IS designed to compete with the Honda Civics and Focus, etc). It just so happens that the performance of this car rivals that of the much more expensive cars such as the S4, S2000, etc. If you guys think that the interior of the WRX is bad, I tend to wonder what you will think of the Mitsubishi Lancer EVO III when that comes out.... (Think more on the lines of Lancer OZ edition)

Tranzition - If I were you, I would just go drive the WRX yourself. I would take what these guys are saying with a pinch of salt... Ever heard of a Chinese Whisper??? It is the tendency of people in general to exaggerate what they might have read or heard as they pass on the info to others.

On a different note--- How are you 350Z owners enjoying your cars so far? Are you using these cars as daily drivers? Weekend warriors??? Definitely eye-catching works of art

Take Care guys, and dive safely!

GameOver

just to let you know: some wrx owners are having BIG tranny problems. Apparently the stock wrx tranny isnt as strong as its supposed to be. SOB markets the WRX as a RALLY INSPIRED car and doesnt even want to honor warranty just cuz "theyre abusing their cars", what kinda crap s that??

Id buy a WRX after they fix that tranny problem.

TJZ

The suspension and handling on the wrx is quite good, actually. Perhaps actually driving one could enlighten you.

I would never want to own a rex b/c the whole point of having one is to mod it. You get big hp for very little money. But due to the tranny problems it has and subaru's lack of support I would never want to own one unless i had no intention of modding it. Perhaps I could do this with a J-spec STi but i dont think that any adequte US spec ( or any STi's) will make it here any time remotely soon.

jigga

Gameover - The reason as to why you are reading about the tranny 'problems' is because owners feel the need to carry out the clutch drops from 5000+ rpm. On a rear wheel drive car such as your Z cars, this will produce massive wheelspin (please correct me if I am wrong ). This is how the extra power is dissipated. On a WRX, the front and rear wheels are locked via a center diff. As a result, there can be no wheelspin to dissipate the excessive power. As a result, the gearbox is left do deal with all of the stress. This is especially true when the car is launched on a very grippy surface.

Honda S2000 owners also suffer from a somewhat similar dilema. To get the amazing 0-60 times, they need to launch from high RPM. With them, it is not their gearbox that breaks, but their rear differential.

Having AWD on a car is both a gift, but it can also be a curse (as in having too much traction for your own good)... You have the advantage in a race from a stop, but to maximize that advantage, you need to drop as much power to the ground as soon as the race starts. Unfortunately, this is VERY hard on any geabox.

If any of you guys have any further questions regarding the WRX, I would only be too happy to answer them for you. Of course I will do my best to answer your questions as impartially as I can

Take care guys!

DIGItonium

iTrader: (1)

What happens when you do a turbo swap + ECU mod on the WRX?

Please clarify to those who think the ECU can make great gains on the Z... because WRX is turbocharged, it can be easily modified for more power. On the other hand, ECU for the Z will produce minimal gains.

TJZ

when you get a turbo replacement/ECU, your ultimate goal (very generalized, and omiting cooling and flow) is to increase boost to get more power. The wrx responds very well to this.

NA applications normally get small results from ECU's. The reason people think that the 350Z *may* get good results from it is, there's a rumor that Nissan may have intentionally left the power at 287, and that the stock engine is capable of much more. Who knows if this is true or not, but we can hope.

Zmeflyby

the wrx has no top end!
after 80 mph the car dies out...
and i got this from a wrx owner!

TJZ

This is correct, and is due to its gearing. Subaru should have putted the STi's 6 speed on it.....it was a mistake not to.

jigga

zmeflyby - The top end of the WRX is not as stelar as it's acceleration from a standstill from 0-60. This is due to 3 things. The stock turbo is a VERY small turbo (not quite as small as those on VW 1.8T's mind you). This makes for great down low. Only problem is that the turbo starts to run out of steam as the revs pass 5000RPM. Another cause for the WRX's 'lack' of top-end is due to the gearing. 4th gear and 5th are both OD gears. Another reason is the fact the Subaru tuned the ECU to actually DROP boost as the revs climb. Finally, the car is AWD with power going to all 4 wheels 100% of the time. This has a tendency to sap power when at high speed.

All this being said, there are a few things that most WRX owners have been doing to cure a few of these ailments....

MBC - This gives the owner the ability to raise boost from the factory from slightly over 13 psi to a maximum of about 16psi. This gives a jump of 20-30whp. Next, by using an EBC (~300US) or MBC( can be as cheap as 10 bux if you DIY with parts from Home Depot) to control boost, the boost is not dumped as the revs climb past 5000rpm. This gives the WRX a lot more top-end rush than it has stock. There are other mods such as going for a turboback exhaust.( FYI - the WRX comes with 3 CATS) This bumps the power up by a further ~30WHP (by this time, the WRX is making almost as much the 350Z makes...to all 4 wheels).. ECU tuning (done through piggyback means) helps to maximize this output even further.

As you can see, there are a multitude of ways to improve the top-end rush of the WRX without spending too much money, but then, we must not forget that the WRX is shaped like a breadbox, while the 350Z is shaped more like a bullet. At high speeds, a car's aerodynamics begin to do the talking....


Whether the WRX's top-end sux is dependent on what you are comparing it to. Compared to a Civic Si, its top end might be pretty good, but compared to your 350Z, it most likely would be less than stelar due to the reasons I outlined above. Compared to a Toyota Supra, it definitely would suck, but then I am not so sure that the top-end rush of the 350Z would be as good as that of a Supra or Bimmer M5. It all depends on what you are comparing it to, but as a rule of thumb, given equal power at the crank, a 2wd car's top-end will be greater than that of an AWD car.

Take care!

trs94

The WRX is about as flexible as cars get, and for $25K (or less for the wagon) it is a great deal in my experience.

Consider this:
With mods similar to what was listed: exhaust, MBC/EBC and some sort of engine mgt add-on, your looking at sub 5.0 sec 0-60 times. Cars pushing around 300-320 whp (dynoed) are getting into the low 4 sec, high 3 second area. Add an upgraded turbo and injectors to the previous mods and you're there. Modded WRXs have much better top end than you may think.

Driving in the real world brings rain, snow, ice, and dirt (on pavement) and dirt roads. WRXs are very confidence inspiring in those conditions and lose very little in terms of performance.

Put snow tires on a WRX and watch out. While traction control is letting you creep of the line in car xyz, you can actually launch pretty well in snow with a WRX.

Ever taken a WRX down a gravel or snow covered road and tossed it around? I've done it in 6 inches of fresh snow (unplowed). It didn't phase it. The balance is awesome and easy to control. The base suspension isn't anything world class, but it is comfortable and better than most folks give it credit for. There is a fair amount of body roll, and that scares some people.
Get to learn the car and it is very good. There are a number of great packages out there to upgrade the suspension.

I saw a 350Z on the road a few days ago and it looks nice from the side. It was behind me for a while and I thought the front looked a little strange (but hey, I drive a WRX, right? hehe). There is no doubt it is a great deal for the money and the performance seems great. I would love to take one for a drive.

After reading the last SCC article on their attempt to get some more HP out of it, I'd be a little concerned about bolt on parts getting significant gains. It seems that Nissan has tweaked it pretty good from the factory. I'm sure there are gains to be had, it just remains to be seen how big they will be.

Course, up here at altitude (6000ft in Colorado Springs, 9200ft at my house) the Z won't be quite the fun it will be at sea level. We'll be looking to get another car in a year or so, and the Z will be on our list, but hey, I've got kids and they love riding in the Subie..."go really fast daddy!" A Black STi sedan would go nicely with our modded Red wagon...

Enjoy your new cars and drive the snot out of them.

TRS

GameOver

what are you talking about??? the civic si's top end sux????
my si isnt governed and it goes +140mph. When I drove it to IN from CA I tried it on I80. I got scared at about close to 140. There were still some rpms left til b4 fuel cut off comes online.