I agree with dchengmd. If you need VDC to keep you in the road then you need an awd volvo or public transportation.

On a serious note, upgrading to the right tires is more effective than VDC or any electronic control. I rather take great tires over a car with vdc any day!

 

technically it doesn't cut power, it applies the brake to the wheel(s) that is (are) losing traction.

but i still think it's compairing apples to oranges. you've got bmw, a company who has speciallized in nothing but luxury and performance since thier existance in the car industry (for all practical purposes). and then there's nissan who has for the most part, specialized in affordable, everybody can own one, vehicles. *shrugs* i'm not knocking nissan by any means, i love my z. but there are still VAST differences in the history of the engineering and pricing. you're compairing a less expensive (in thier line) 5 series to the top of the line z.


again, it boils down to percieved value. if you're willing to spend the money do it if not, don't

 

One disadvantage of VDC is you have to make sure that your aftermarket tire/wheel setup does not confuse the VDC, causing it to activate more frequently. If you are not into upgrading your wheels, then this is a moot point.

 

Actually VDC does cut power, and also applies the brakes as well. Here is a description I found for VDC from Infiniti:

"Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC): VDC compares the driver's input to the vehicle's response while cornering. By selectively braking individual wheels and/or reducing engine output, VDC can help the driver maintain control of the vehicle. "

VDC is a great safety device though, and you can expect more and more cars to be using it. Just like ABS is standard on most modern cars, expect VDC/ESC to gain popularity among auto-makers in the coming years.

http://www.esceducation.org/what_exp...ay/index.shtml

For those who want full control, fortunately it can be turned off on the Z.

 

hmm.
well to answer few questions.
1. why not base? cuz i need Xenons
2. If I need VDC to stay on road then i should take public trans?
LOL, well i am not that bad of a driver. I did have a s2000 with nothing like VDC and it was fine. I guess I could do without it, but I usually keep a car for short while, so the resale does play a role. Looks like most say i could do without this. Perhaps you guys are right.
3. VDC is moot is aftermarket wheels - Yeap, I will be getting 19s. Does it still matter if I keep the same diameter. Cuz it's not like i am gonna change the dimensioins completely. :-)

Please advise. So far all the points have been really good and I appreciate it very much.

Raja

 

Technically it most certainly does cut power. Have you ever been under hard acceleration and felt it kick in? If it didn't cut power, when it kicked in, RPM levels would stay the same assuming that amount of throttle applied remained constant (ie you didn't lift your foot off the gas). Is it IE or EG there? Anyways...

Whenever you see it kick in, the slip light comes on, RPM's always drop. ALWAYS...

I really don't think its comparing apples to oranges. We're talking about cars that have electronic control system to help keep them on the road. All of them use some form of brake/engine modulation controlled by a computer hooked up to various sensors to keep their respective cars under control. IMO, comparably price Bimmer's have better systems than our cars in this arena. Same with the Mercs.

To me it makes little difference about the history of whomever made the car. What matters most is the performance. If one works better than the other than thats that. The prestige of a name brand does not enter my equation.

 

Another point to consider --

The C5 Corvette has Active Handling, one of the original stability control systems, and it's key feature is the ability to enable/disable stability control independently of traction control. What does this mean?

You want VDC to help you go faster, right? 99.9% of the time, TCS is just a killjoy. IMHO, it's only good for the snow/ice, and in those conditions, you shouldn't be in a Z anyway. But since VDC is locked with TCS, it's useless to have on the racetrack. Plus, if you've had an S2K, you've already gained a lot of experience with twitchy RWD cars. The S2K will do throttle-lift oversteer in a heartbeat, but that seldom happens in the heavier, more understeering Z. Like the others have said, keep the $2,200 in your pocket and spend it elsewhere. Rims and tires alone will make your car more stable than VDC with stock RE040's. Plus you won't have to worry if plus fitments or lowered/altered suspensions will throw off the VDC. I got my Enth. for $28K, and I'm loving it!!!

Edward

 

Actually you could probably go in for the Tein coilovers group buy w/the EDFC that is currently going on in the group buy section of this website. THen you'll have an enthusiast that handles WAY better than any stock Z including the Track.

As a side note, I scoured Southern California and Vegas for my car. Ended up with a Touring because I didn't want to wait months on an order. Looked for the Enthusiast in DB first, then the Performance. My touring was in Vegas.

Patience would've saved me a buttload of cash I could have applied to mods. I'm dumb. Bose sucks.

 

Ehtusiast has everthing you need. VDC cannot be turned off. Every time you hit the brakes, it is reactivated despite the off light. Traction control in the Entusiast doesn't re-activate with braking. LSD is why you would want the Enthusiast over Base. The aluminum pedals and auto dim rear view mirror is nice as well. 17"s are all you need with some good tires. 18"s are good for show, but the lower profile doesn't necessarily enhance lateral Gs. Look at the tire profile on a Formula 1 racer. 8% of a given tire's slip angle is all that needs to be optimized. Suggest Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3s and a Nismo S tune suspension to get your Enthusiast up to snuff. Just $.02.

 

This is a question I too have asked many times on my quest for a Z. Great input...

 

If you are in an oversteer situation, that is absolutely the LAST thing you should do. VDC will help prevent the back end from coming around.

 

Actually no, in an oversteer situation you'll want to steer into the skid which VDC is not going to help you with. But VDC will certainly drop your rpm's immediately, much like taking your foot off the gas. Also some brake modulation.

Of course if you're intentionally drifting you could stay on the throttle, feathering it as necessary to keep the rear wheels loose. The best drifters actually don't even need to turn into the skid to regain control, they just complete the slide with their front wheels pointed forward.

But I think the point here is that VDC will keep you from getting into an oversteer situation. My point was that pulling your foot off the gas will do the exact same thing.

Have you ever tried to initiate an oversteer situation with VDC on? I have, quite by accident. I was practicing a feint drift (in the corner steer to the outside then snap it back to the inside to initiate a drift) and I'd forgetten the stupid VDC was on. The rear kicks out, the stupid VDC kicks in, RPMS drop, and I'm snapped like a **** back into line then spin out of control (track). 99.9% no one in their right mind is going to do something like that unintentionally.

Another time I was merging onto the freeway and I knew I could make it in front of this semi that was in the slow lane. I'm gunning full throttle up the ramp (and loving it) to the freeway and as I'm about to merge on, I've got the gas peddle on the floor and I'm not accelerating. Glance down, the stupid SLIP light is on. The VDC has sensed some tire slip on the bit of gravel I was driving over and was cutting power. I was driving in a straight line. Immediately got off the gas and then back on, VDC had shut off, and powered ahead. Really annoying and a little nerve racking.

Frankly, I'd never trust a computer program over my own judgement and ability to drive. Probably because I design and build them all day long...

 

wrong, wrong, wrong.

pulling your foot off of the gas during oversteer will transition the vehicle's weight to the front tires and snap the back end around before you have any idea what's going on.

frankly, I'm thanking god that most of the Z's out there have TCS and VDC, because there are wanna-be Initial D fanboys out there such as yourself that have no idea what's going on.

 

The point was that pulling your foot off the gas BEFORE you get into an oversteer situation. Like slowing down before you get into trouble. So you would never get into the oversteer situation. Then you would never have to lift your foot off the gas. Then you would never have the back end snap around etc. etc.

The exact quote was "VDC will help you from getting INTO an oversteer situation." Not "VDC will help you WHILE in an oversteer situation."

Its obvious you know how to write. Too bad no one taught you how to read.

 

hey Raja... dunno if you remember me from the ECBMW meets, my name is Ricky...

anyhow, i just bought a 03 CS Touring 6spd fully loaded (everything cept the sat. radio)... from rosenthal in tysons...

as for the VDC... me personally not being used to the rear wheel drive and the long clutch, it helped out when i first drove the car outta the dealer. If you shift hard and pop the clutch even only hitting about 3-4k rpm, the tires might start to slip and the car feels really weird when the vdc kicks in.

basically... my .02 is that its worrth having it there because in normal everyday driving, you can leave it on just as extra protection... but if you do ever get annoyed by it you just hit the little button.

hehe couldn't wait any longer for the M3... just decided to get the Z, and im lovin it so far... good luck wiht your search man, maybe i'll see you one of these friday nights

 

There is significant confusion about TCS/VDC so I will explain it.

TCS = Traction Control System - Senses REAR wheel spin and will cut power until spinning has stopped.

VDC = Vehicle Dynamic Control - Senses cars lateral acceleration, steering input, throttle position, and if it determines that the car is slipping sideways (either under or oversteering) it will apply the brakes to INDIVIDUAL wheels to try and get the car back on line. No driver, no matter how good, is able to brake each wheel independently. I agree that the system is intrusive in the stock Z, but much less so if you have taken steps to balance the stock understeer.

VDC can HELP prevent you from crashing, but it is not impervious to the laws of physics (as I proved at the track). If you are cornering at the limit, and hit something that significantly changes the traction, VDC will probably not help. It will help if you are cornering at the limit and slowly creep past it. Even though I crashed with VDC on, I still feel that it is a very useful feature when driving on the street, since you should be well away from the limit in that situation.

Also, VDC definitely does turn off when you press the button. If you think it hasn't, it is because you are braking and turning too much at the same time. Since the Z is prone to understeer it is possible for the front tires to come loose first and the ABS will engage. The pulsing is similar to the feel of VDC, but it is not the same. If the car begins to understeer, and you are just lightly resting on the brakes, ABS may still activate since the wheels have much less traction when sliding and can lock up even under light pedal pressure. I've done some donuts and power slides with VDC off, so I know that it definitely turns off.

Finally, VDC requires the overall tire diameter to be similar to the stock sizes. It is OK to go to larger wheels as long as you use a lower profile tire to compensate.

Personally, I like having the VDC and TPS available. Niether is critical (after all, many of us have been driving for many years without the benefit of either) but they are kinda cool.

-D'oh!

 

I just bought my very first Z. I traded in my lexus IS300 02' for it. this is by far the neatest car i've ever owned. I love the Touring Model, with the leather and the Bose with the subwoofer, the car not only screams, but it sounds great too. This car feels like it's on rails when I drive it, and I really feel safe in it.