350scroadster

Hi everyone,

I have a 2003 supercharged 350z roadster with 110,000 km [~65,000 miles]. Lots of upgrades - full exhaust, headers, high flow cats, coilovers, and little stuff like oil catch can and other bits.

After having my Z for a few months I took it to the track to see how it felt and what I'd like to upgrade. I blew up the engine after the 3rd run and it's been sitting in my garage since.

I've talked with Tim [OldManZ] about my power goals, and made a list to see if I should bother fixing it or just move on and cut my losses [$17,000 for the car +$5,000 for repairs, tuning, etc]. Keep in mind all prices here are in Canadian dollars.

I'm posting this here so everyone can see my plans and hopefully make some suggestions to save costs, or include bits and pieces I need that aren't listed.

TOTAL: $30,771

REPAIRS [$10,010]

Engine Replacement [$7,000]

Engine: JDM Source VQ35DE [$2,500]
Install: Advance Power House [$3,500]
Extra Parts: Assorted Replacements [$1,000]

Steering Replacement [$750]

Rack and Pinion: RockAuto [$450]
Install: Advance Power House [$300]

Convertible Top Replacement [$2,260]

Top: Robbins w/ Heated Glass Window [$1,260]
Install: ? [$1,000]

Miscellaneous Replacement & Repair [$1,000]

Assorted Interior Trim Pieces: ? [$400]
Assorted Fixes and Repairs: ? [$600]

UPGRADES [$20,761]

Fuel System Upgrades [$3,676]

Fuel Pump: 340 LPH DEATSCHWERKS [$290]
Fuel Injectors: 1050.48.14.14.6 ID1050-XDS [$1,260]
Fuel Return System: CJM S1 w/ Fire Sleeve & Dual Rail Dampers [$1,260] + Fuel Pump Relay Kit [$66]
Install: Advance Power House [$600]

Supercharger Upgrades [$800]

2.87 Pulley: Vortech 2A036-287 [$200]
34 Tooth Cog Rear Jackshaft Pulley: Vortech 4GR032-034 [$180]
Structural Bracing: TimRod Radius Rod [$200] PURCHASED
Install: Advance Power House [$400]

ECU Upgrades [$3,040]

Standalone ECU: LINK G4X [$2,200]
ECU Sensor Upgrades: LINK CAN Lambda [$490]
ECU Sensor Connector Cables: LINK CANJST CAN [$50]
Install: Advance Power House [$300]

Cooling Upgrades [$1,400]

Intercooler: Treadstone TR-1245 [$950]
Install: Advance Power House [$450]

Bodywork Upgrades [$6,585]

Front Bumper: NISMO v3 [$1,600]
Undershroud: Z1Motorsports [$275]
NISMO Undershroud Extension: Z1Motorsports [$275]
Rear Diffuser: TwinZ + Type I Rear Spats [$1,250]
Rear Spoiler: Mercury Z Duckbill [$885]
Rear Bumper Garnish: Mercury Z Carbon [$400]
Paint for Bumper and Diffuser: ? [$600]
Install for All Parts: ? [$1,000]
Wrap: Metallic 70s Brown [$3,000]

Wheel and Tire Upgrades [$3,600]

Forged Wheels: ? [$2,000]
Performance Tires: ? [$1,600]

Braking Upgrades [$1,660]

Brake Lines: Stainless Steel [$160]
Calipers: Brembo [$850]
Pads: Hawk HPS or Similar [$250]
Rotors: StopTech Slotted & Drilled [$400]

350scroadster

Honestly looking at this I think the likely plan is to replace the engine, drive it for a couple of summers, save money, and sell it to buy something like a 2018 M4 Roadster. Stock it's equivalent or superior to the 350z even after upgrades, has more potential for power, and 4 seats so I can take passengers. If I sell my Z for $20k and add $30k for the M4 its only about $10k more than my total build cost. Any feedback here is welcome.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

I dont know that youre going to get $15k usd -

you might get $10k to $12k if everything is working and running top-notch.

Have you already invested money into these parts and theyre on the car already? Or do you intend to spend this money on these parts?

I would decide how long you want to keep this car…roughly speaking (all my opinion):

Less than one year - replace the engine and do nothing more. Get the car running / driving normal and reliable. I wouldnt sink another penny into the car other than to get it sold and then buy what you want.

One year to 5years - replace the engine and parts that you need to make the car fun to drive and enjoyable. Plan on a return of 10% to 25% of any money you put into the car.

5years or more - spend the money you want to spend to make the car you want

Know that not many cars (for the price point youre talking about) will be far superior to a supercharged (10psi to 12psi) VQDE / Z33 … the roadster may not be as nimble as the coupe but its still a pretty good setup. I think people look at stats and write-ups on different cars and are only seeing the positives, not the whole picture, and not the entire start-to-finish story.

Yes - the bmw 3liter TT is a great engine and yes, guys are pushing them to 600hp but you dont see what the issues are after 10k miles or 20k miles … And I wouldnt wish german automotive engineering problems on my worst enemy. I think you will pay more for your bolt-ons, your fueling, and your tuning. I can’t imagine they are easy to work on and as inexpensive to fix as a DE.

I fully admit that I’m biased and Im a DE-fan-boy through & through. And if the DE isnt for you than, by-all-means, cut your losses and move on. No one would blame you and thats the beauty of having choices in the automotive realm. And, nothing is permanent - you can always get another z33 or z34 down the road.

350scroadster

hey man thanks for the thorough reply. I know from
our chat on messenger that you’ve had some wild builds and I appreciate the feedback

I haven’t looked into this in depth, but I think the market for 350s here in Canada is very different from the US. I did a quick check on autotrader and found a page full of roadsters north of 20k CAD without boost and they aren’t showroom quality.

this brings up another option… if I’m going to spend 10k CAD on an engine, steering rack, and top, maybe I should be checking out the east coast of the US for a vert around ~7k USD and drive it back. I’ll have an entire parts car and something I can drive right away.

this is my car until I own a house, and unfortunately Canadian real estate is trash.. houses here are $1MM plus so it’s going to be at least 5 years before I get a down payment together.

A hesitation I have with this build is supercharge vs turbo. I haven’t driven a well set up supercharged Z like Tim’s, but I have driven turbo cars around 400whp and they feel leagues ahead of my Z at 335 whp. Maybe I’ll get to some meets next season and see if I can ride in a Vortech Z with 400+ to get a sense of whether I should build mine up

DarkZ03

iTrader: (11)

2 things:
1. Because of how turbos put out power you will always feel that torque difference, even if it's the same power number.
2. By the way you talk you want a faster car, when you said track was that drag or road course?
Reason I ask is boosted DEs don't last on a road course unless you are doing pretty short sessions.

350scroadster

yeah that’s what I keep hearing, I think to be truly satisfied I need to look into turbo. Before that I do want to drive a higher powered Vortech, because I have driven an N/A car that gave me the same feeling I like from boosted cars. It was a 2018 Huracan spyder though so maybe the bar is a little high for a 350 haha

it was a road course! What makes you say this? Its the first I’ve heard of longevity issues on road courses for this platform.

To be fair it was the third or fourth 20 minute run on a 30c day [90f?] and there was something weird going on with my oil. The oil light kept coming on but I don’t think the level was low. For what it’s worth my cooling was also not up to snuff for even regular applications based on my convos with TimRod.

In short most of the blame is on me, I should’ve retired for the day when I started getting lights on the dash and done more research about this before pushing so hard.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

yeaaaaaaa … thats a good point … I def dont know the canadian market and it’d be foolish to assume the canadian market is the same as the us market … good on ya and thats probably a better way to estimate prices (FB Marketplace and Autotrader).

I wil say - supply & demand … if there are a bunch of them available than there may be a reason why there are so many for sale at that price point - but that’s good to know.



Pretty good idea, actually!

I prefer turbo vs. supercharger but that’s personal preference -

I’ll walk-back a statement I made above about the Z and the M4 … (the algorthym is real) saw a FB post where guys were comparing the 350z and 370z to the M2 and M4 and guys were saying that the BMWs were better and faster … I dont know how that stacks up to a supercharged 350z/370z but I think BMW has perfected the sports sedan. And, to be fair to nissan, the M2 & M4 are 15-20years newer.

DarkZ03

iTrader: (11)

Just search for boosted VQs doing track sessions they are almost non existent.
They run too hot, it can be done but the only one I know of runs Grid life and their sessions are short.
If you build it right, it should be fine but not a stock engine, you'll need a really good cooling system and a way to let the hot air out of the engine bay.

RENFRO

iTrader: (1)

Something to consider is trying to save a ton on the labor costs you have listed. If you have a place you could work on it, of course. A friend or two, some youtube, and the forum knowledge here would definitely get you over the finish line on swapping an engine in and out, plus a steering rack, fuel system, etc. I did pretty much my entire build in my garage on jack stands, sans the block machining and finally engine assembly.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

I’ll echo this that aside from the machine-intense work, alignment, and ???(I dont know??) I’ve done all my own work … could be my down-fall too!

Aeneas137

I was at a five session track day last March and got a camshaft position sensor warning in session 3 so I immediately quit and went home. unless it's an airbag warning light or something like that, I never cross my fingers because on the track you're putting 10x stress on the car than on the street. I know you already said that you wish you would have stopped, I'm just sharing my own experience. Don't mean to give you a hard time about it.

Aeneas137

I didn't see the supercharger in your itemized list. isn't that another $8,000?

I'm going to get on people's nerves beating this drum but when you get into those numbers, you're in a different car class and money poured into the Z at that level is just going down the drain. unless... UNLESS... you absolutely love the platform and don't mind. you get huge enjoyment out of it and don't count the costs. but it looks like you are counting...

I was following a BMW Z3 track car on BAT last month. it went for $18,000 after the guy put $100,000 into it. you can't just say well that's a dumb thing to do. he enjoyed the car and the cost didn't hurt his finances. but does that make any sense? putting an s52 engine in it and supercharger and all of the racing goodies, and at the end of the day it has a 20% roi. That's a bad investment.

The thing about the supercar market that I don't think most people realize is, the people who buy those cars drive them for free. I'm not being ridiculous here. hear me out.

The first super car you buy costs you 100K plus. depends on what you're looking at. let's say a 996 911 GT3. 130,000. so you drive that car for 5 years while paying it off. assuming you can afford $2,000 per month. so you pay it off. That's the last time you will ever spend money on a sports car.

after having fun with it, you turn around and sell it for at least what you paid If not an appreciation. you use that money to go buy another one. whatever car you want to play with for a while. drive it for two or three years. maybe a 997 GT3 this time. maybe you pay a little bit over. but odds are you've made money on appreciation from the last car. so you buy whatever you want for free.

most people spend about 40K for a new car today and it's worth about 15K after 5 years of commuting. this is not about commuters. at that level of car, there's no more depreciation.
​​​​​in fact most of them don't depreciate at all.

you mentioned an M4. you could also look at a Z4 M Coupe. I've had my eye on them for a while now. like mid-2000s models. they're very heavy though. this model is basically a Toyota Supra. And at the price range you are looking at, you can get a 987.2 S or a 981 S. And probably you could get a 997. And these cars won't lose value.

RENFRO

iTrader: (1)

You took the thought I had a couple years ago right out of my brain. At some threshold once you're above maybe $80-90k, depending on the car, the depreciation curve just isn't hardly a downward curve anymore at all. It can, and likely will, result in you at least breaking even or making money.

DarkZ03

iTrader: (11)

If you can afford to have a car payment larger than most mortgage payments lol.

RENFRO

iTrader: (1)

That's a fact. Ideally one would be able to put down around 50% and have somewhat of a manageable payment, but a lot of those higher trim Porsches are steep towards $200k+ which I just don't think I could ever bring myself to do. I do think I'll try to add an R35 to the garage in the next couple of years though. They tend to hold their value well, and at the end of the day are still a Nissan that I can work on in my driveway if I need to.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

I’m a little above $90k through my car and I am far from breaking even … unless you factor in the emotional investments!

RENFRO

iTrader: (1)

Well I don't mean in mods, as I'm likely the same...but the $90k+ right out of the gate to just buy the car outright.

Aeneas137

I think you're right about the 90K tipping point being where depreciation no longer happens (any high-end car above that price). Porsches were depreciating predictably until around 2017 when the 992 generation came out. I don't know if it has to do with COVID or what, but the high-end models don't depreciate at all anymore. unless someone is putting heavy miles on them which is rare. a 992 GT3 RS actually goes up in value every year because the demand is so high. they're bringing about 300k now. in a recent auction sale of the white collection, a 991 went for a million dollars. it was a high option model, I think 600k but still that's a huge ROI. they just put every ridiculous option you could possibly imagine on the car. like leather wrapped vent vanes.

DarkZ03

iTrader: (11)

It's because they are scarce and the era of EVs is getting closer by the second, that is why they are holding their value.
To the average person that can't afford that big of a payment it's sorta irrelevant tho. The thing with us dumping all this money into these cars is we are doing it in a long stretch of time.
I've had my car for over 12 years and I'm sure Beall and Ren are right there with me!

Aeneas137

If I'm thinking long-term like that, and the monthly payment is the only obstacle, then I think the solution is to put the brakes on excessive car expenses for a few years and save up a down payment nest egg. any amount is helpful but 20K would make a big dent on the monthly payments. The more the better. I think for us car fanatics, you have to have a pretty good cheap car to keep you happy during the saving years. And be strict about it like a diet!!

I was just browsing bat history and several Audi R8 5.2s have sold for 80k recently. Don't know the first thing about Audis but just for comparison. I do know a bit about Porsche turbos which are in that same price range. The turbo is in between a Carrera 4S and a GT3. not even going to talk about the GT3 RS or GT4 RS which are astronomical. The turbos are at the bottom of their depreciation curve right now. The like 997s.

I do feel like this is doable. especially for anyone who has spent a lot on their hobby car. I'm probably going to do this. but I have to pay off a few things first.

oh, btw, apologies to the OP for somewhat going OT here. I think this is sort of related but maybe not what you were asking for.