Burned an Audi S-4
#22
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Originally posted by M3owner
I have driven american cars before, and I have driven Japanese and German cars. For some unexplained reason the Japanese and German cars simply FEEL BETTER to drive. I mean its not the power thing, cause the mustang that I drove had a lot of torque, and it pushed me back against my seat, but I felt disconnected to it. Same thing goes for the camaro Z28. When I drive I want to feel that the car is an extension of myself, this feeling is more closely achieved by german and japanese automakers IMHO.
I have driven american cars before, and I have driven Japanese and German cars. For some unexplained reason the Japanese and German cars simply FEEL BETTER to drive. I mean its not the power thing, cause the mustang that I drove had a lot of torque, and it pushed me back against my seat, but I felt disconnected to it. Same thing goes for the camaro Z28. When I drive I want to feel that the car is an extension of myself, this feeling is more closely achieved by german and japanese automakers IMHO.
It's all about the driving experience and the feel of the car.
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Originally posted by Iceman3K15
I mean look at Supra TT's, stock they run 14.0's. I have seen VR4's run 13.5's to 14.2's stock depending on the driver. .
I mean look at Supra TT's, stock they run 14.0's. I have seen VR4's run 13.5's to 14.2's stock depending on the driver. .
Lance
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Well since people are bashing American cars which I can understand, the interiors are usually inferior and the finish quality is not the same. In the majority of cases though bashing American performance engines just doesn't make sense to me. Yes the American manufacturers are still stuck in the past, but they put out some pretty impressive numbers. Also I remember reading that stock the TT supras and vr4's were not that much but it was the potential that was there. All I have to say is Lingenfelter Performance Engineering, supercharged for 5k on top of your cost of vette nets 490 HP. Pretty impressive. I also believe their 427 ci TT vette won the car and driver tuner challenge. BTW the new Z rules, waiting for TT.
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Not to be nitpicky (because it really doesn't matter), but the Supra TT runs 13.4-13.7 quarters stock. You'd have to be a pretty lousy driver to hit 14s.
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Originally posted by ezchief
That's the one. Moved in in March....got the Z on 8-29. The only Z I have seen is on Spur 133 going on Preston. Tuesday night and I think it was Silver. We passed each other in opposite directions and gave the
look. It was so cool. If he is out their, drop a thread or post a reply.
That's the one. Moved in in March....got the Z on 8-29. The only Z I have seen is on Spur 133 going on Preston. Tuesday night and I think it was Silver. We passed each other in opposite directions and gave the
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#28
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Originally posted by Iceman3K15
Exactly frOng, thats how american cars work. If a foreign car used a 5.7 liter V8 engine.........damn it would be putting out some serious power! Foreign manufacturers know what they are doing, and how to use an engine to its potential. The new straight 6 M3 is the perfect example. 333hp 6 cylinder, compairable to a 5.7 liter V8 LS1 engine with 325hp
Exactly frOng, thats how american cars work. If a foreign car used a 5.7 liter V8 engine.........damn it would be putting out some serious power! Foreign manufacturers know what they are doing, and how to use an engine to its potential. The new straight 6 M3 is the perfect example. 333hp 6 cylinder, compairable to a 5.7 liter V8 LS1 engine with 325hp
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You didn't mention the M3's 262 ft/lbs of torque. Not very impressive (at least compared to an American V8). You also didn't mention that you have to rev the **** out of the engine to hit that HP peak (7900rpm). And the difference is even greater if you compare to the LS6: 405HP 400 ft/lbs.
Here's another example for you of a foreign car for you: Volkswagon Passat W8. So here's a German automaker with 8 cylinders to work with! The power must be unbelievable! Well, not really: 270HP 273 ft/lbs. That's pretty pathetic for an 8 if you ask me. So at the very least Volkswagon can't do any better than the American companies with 8 cylinders, and I bet Nissan, Honda and Toyota can't either.
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then explain why that guy took his 345hp w/ 385ft lbs of torque corvette and traded it on a vr-4? huh? yeah thats rite. he'll loose a little bit of stock speed for somethin that awesome and rare
(1 of 250). That trans am or vette dont have the turn head factor anymore either. but the supra tt and vr-4, with comprable performance, will alwase have that. i mean ****, look at the new cobra. what sets it apart form other mustangs besides its hp? american cars all look the same , they are as unique as a McDonald's. thats a good synonym for american cars, McDonalds....fast, cheep and easy to get.
Joey
(1 of 250). That trans am or vette dont have the turn head factor anymore either. but the supra tt and vr-4, with comprable performance, will alwase have that. i mean ****, look at the new cobra. what sets it apart form other mustangs besides its hp? american cars all look the same , they are as unique as a McDonald's. thats a good synonym for american cars, McDonalds....fast, cheep and easy to get.
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#30
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Originally posted by SKiDaZZLe
umm.. isnt the avant a station wagon? i understand it still is an S4... but come on... i don't even waste the gas...
hey, there is a focus 5-door in my neighborhood... you want me to setup a race?
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on a related note, i did house a boxster S on the Dallas Tollway last night. we did a rolling 50mph start, right after the most northern toll plaza... DFW peeps will know what i am talking about.
m
umm.. isnt the avant a station wagon? i understand it still is an S4... but come on... i don't even waste the gas...
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hey, there is a focus 5-door in my neighborhood... you want me to setup a race?
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on a related note, i did house a boxster S on the Dallas Tollway last night. we did a rolling 50mph start, right after the most northern toll plaza... DFW peeps will know what i am talking about.
m
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#32
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OK, First of all, lets get the facts straight. The LS1 makes 350HP and 375 ft/lbs in it's intended platform.
You didn't mention the M3's 262 ft/lbs of torque. Not very impressive (at least compared to an American V8). You also didn't mention that you have to rev the **** out of the engine to hit that HP peak (7900rpm). And the difference is even greater if you compare to the LS6: 405HP 400 ft/lbs.
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Here's another example for you of a foreign car for you: Volkswagon Passat W8. So here's a German automaker with 8 cylinders to work with! The power must be unbelievable! Well, not really: 270HP 273 ft/lbs. That's pretty pathetic for an 8 if you ask me. So at the very least Volkswagon can't do any better than the American companies with 8 cylinders, and I bet Nissan, Honda and Toyota can't either.
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Amercian V8's are nice and all, most american engines are pretty damn good. Its not the engine thats the main flaw with american cars. Its the rest of the car. The quality, relaibility, smoothness and the feeling like you are not one with the car (as mentioned above) are the main problems......
PS - the new V8 Toyota will put in the new top of the line sports car they have on the way will surprise you.
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Originally posted by Iceman3K15
Ok smart guy, first of all. I don't care if its the intended platform or not. The fact is, on a Trans Am (non ram air) the LS1 5.7 V8 is only putting out 305hp PERIOD
Ok smart guy, first of all. I don't care if its the intended platform or not. The fact is, on a Trans Am (non ram air) the LS1 5.7 V8 is only putting out 305hp PERIOD
dyno'd ABOVE 305 hp. It's not uncommon for General Motors to understate actual hp #'s. Anyone recall the Buick GNX?
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Here's the REAL facts, most LS1 F-bodies (M6) are putting down between 300-310hp at the wheels which translates to about 350-360hp at the crank. Those numbers will slightly flucuate with the SS and RAM AIR packages but on the rollers, those upgrades really don't show themselves as they would at speed on the highway, so there isn't a whole lot of difference between the 5.7 variants. Certainly nowhere near your stated "305hp PERIOD" remark. I'll assume you're not an LS1 owner, so your statement was probably culled from the usual magazine or brochure info sheets which continue to state GM's published figures. My brother's '87 Buick Grand National is another example. It dyno'd ABOVE GM's stated crank figure. All to save the Vette's reputation as being the general's king of the hill.
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Last edited by THrussT; 09-26-2002 at 08:54 PM.
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Vette's would stay king of the hill, even if the HP numbers are close. They are almost 300 pounds lighter, have IRS instead of a solid rear end, and a better intake. Ok, so the Trans Am makes 350hp to the crank. That makes it even worse that it can only just hang with the M3.
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people on this site that make fun of the "wagon" of the S4 or RS4, get ready to get laughed at. you are setting your selves up to look real stupid right here in front of the whole world to see.
The STOCK s4 (avant or sedan) does a 5.4-5.6 (do those numbers sound familiar???) BUT for $500 a little tiny chip gets that way below 5.0. You would never know how fast one of those cars are until you got in one. I would just hate for a fellow Z guy to get eaten up by a lowly station wagon (jokes on you).
btw, pop off valves don't come on S4s and they actually lose HP when tried to be applied to this application.
The STOCK s4 (avant or sedan) does a 5.4-5.6 (do those numbers sound familiar???) BUT for $500 a little tiny chip gets that way below 5.0. You would never know how fast one of those cars are until you got in one. I would just hate for a fellow Z guy to get eaten up by a lowly station wagon (jokes on you).
btw, pop off valves don't come on S4s and they actually lose HP when tried to be applied to this application.
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Originally posted by Iceman3K15
Hmm lets see, last I looked the M3 with its 262 ft/lbs of torque and having to "rev the **** out of the engine" was running the 1/4 mile in 13.3 seconds. While you have your Trans Am with its 335 ft/lbs or more running the 1/4 in a 13.4. Sounds pretty pathetic to have that much more torque and still can just barely compete with it
Hmm lets see, last I looked the M3 with its 262 ft/lbs of torque and having to "rev the **** out of the engine" was running the 1/4 mile in 13.3 seconds. While you have your Trans Am with its 335 ft/lbs or more running the 1/4 in a 13.4. Sounds pretty pathetic to have that much more torque and still can just barely compete with it
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Originally posted by Iceman3K15
NEXT....so you want to pick on the WORST foreign car you can find huh?
NEXT....so you want to pick on the WORST foreign car you can find huh?
Originally posted by Iceman3K15
Amercian V8's are nice and all, most american engines are pretty damn good. Its not the engine thats the main flaw with american cars. Its the rest of the car. The quality, relaibility, smoothness and the feeling like you are not one with the car (as mentioned above) are the main problems......
Amercian V8's are nice and all, most american engines are pretty damn good. Its not the engine thats the main flaw with american cars. Its the rest of the car. The quality, relaibility, smoothness and the feeling like you are not one with the car (as mentioned above) are the main problems......
Originally posted by Iceman3K15
PS - the new V8 Toyota will put in the new top of the line sports car they have on the way will surprise you.
PS - the new V8 Toyota will put in the new top of the line sports car they have on the way will surprise you.
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Originally posted by Iceman3K15
Vette's would stay king of the hill, even if the HP numbers are close. They are almost 300 pounds lighter, have IRS instead of a solid rear end, and a better intake. Ok, so the Trans Am makes 350hp to the crank. That makes it even worse that it can only just hang with the M3.
Vette's would stay king of the hill, even if the HP numbers are close. They are almost 300 pounds lighter, have IRS instead of a solid rear end, and a better intake. Ok, so the Trans Am makes 350hp to the crank. That makes it even worse that it can only just hang with the M3.
I dare you to post in the Texas forum on ls1.com and remotely imply that f-bodies can't turn. I guarantee you that the moderator will call you out on a roadcourse. A few of those guys showed up at the Z Club of Texas' DE at Hallet Racing Circuit. It was their first time on that particular track and after the first couple of sessions, most of them were bumped from green group (newbie group) to red group (instructor group).
It's true f-bodies are best at drag racing, but they can also be effective corner carvers.
All that said, f-bodies aren't my cup-to-tea, but I'm not gonna say anything bad about them.
Michael.
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This sounds like a concession of defeat? Changing the subject? Looking for more unrelated topics to support your case? The original argument was that a foreign company would make a much better V8 than the American car makers. Stick to it, or I'll mention the price difference between your two similarly performing cars...M3 vs Trans Am... Ah what the hell, I'll mention it anyway: $20,000!
I bet they can't out perform the Z06 and cost less, though!
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