To Supercharge or not to Supercharge, THAT is the Question!!
10-19-2002, 05:11 PM
#1
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To Supercharge or not to Supercharge, THAT is the Question!!
Aloha Fellow 350Z'ers!!
Stillen has a new toy....
<img src=http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/b92fea04/bc/PA190055.jpg?bc8kZ29AGOX.WWjv>
I tried to pry the keys from Steve, but he smartly put Jeff in charge of the keys!!
<img src=http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/b92fea04/bc/PA190069.jpg?bc8kZ29Au7m0m27f>
The view from the rear!
<img src=http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/b92fea04/bc/stillen/PA190071.jpg?bc8kZ29Ah4Rih0NW>
Well folks, Suggestions? Ideas? Input ? Yea or Nea?
Cheers!
Charlie Dever
Group Z Prez
www.GroupZ.com
Stillen has a new toy....
<img src=http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/b92fea04/bc/PA190055.jpg?bc8kZ29AGOX.WWjv>
I tried to pry the keys from Steve, but he smartly put Jeff in charge of the keys!!
<img src=http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/b92fea04/bc/PA190069.jpg?bc8kZ29Au7m0m27f>
The view from the rear!
<img src=http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/b92fea04/bc/stillen/PA190071.jpg?bc8kZ29Ah4Rih0NW>
Well folks, Suggestions? Ideas? Input ? Yea or Nea?
Cheers!
Charlie Dever
Group Z Prez
www.GroupZ.com
10-19-2002, 06:59 PM
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uhh...
first of all, what are the dynos for that prototype test car in that pic? and what the hell did they do to the exhaust? i say nea to that roots-type. the "stickin-out-the-hood" situation isnt workin for me. i say centrifugal supercharger all the way.
10-19-2002, 09:33 PM
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Did anyone ask how Stillen plans to handle engine management for that SC? If they plan on using off the shelf piggyback stuff then I think I know where we can get a centrifugal SC setup from... Also did they say how much boost they were going to run? Did they have plans for a FMIC as well?
10-19-2002, 09:47 PM
#7
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Originally posted by spooled
Did anyone ask how Stillen plans to handle engine management for that SC? If they plan on using off the shelf piggyback stuff then I think I know where we can get a centrifugal SC setup from... Also did they say how much boost they were going to run? Did they have plans for a FMIC as well?
Did anyone ask how Stillen plans to handle engine management for that SC? If they plan on using off the shelf piggyback stuff then I think I know where we can get a centrifugal SC setup from... Also did they say how much boost they were going to run? Did they have plans for a FMIC as well?
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10-19-2002, 10:28 PM
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kill it
Be sure to document everything well. You WILL pop that engine. Good documentation will save others from the desire to put aftermarket pressure on engines that weren't engineered for it.
Wait for the real thing from Nissan, or plan to stay real busy on rebuilds.
Dead
Wait for the real thing from Nissan, or plan to stay real busy on rebuilds.
Dead
10-20-2002, 06:19 AM
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I'm sorry... no amount of hp is going to make me put a hood on my car that has a big bubble on it. Surely Stillen will be able to develop something that won't ruin the great lines of the car.
On another note, check out all the people around the car. How many of them do you think could actualy afford or own a Z now as opposed to are dreaming of owning one someday? hehehe...
On another note, check out all the people around the car. How many of them do you think could actualy afford or own a Z now as opposed to are dreaming of owning one someday? hehehe...
10-20-2002, 10:58 AM
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Re: kill it
Originally posted by futuredeadguy
Be sure to document everything well. You WILL pop that engine. Good documentation will save others from the desire to put aftermarket pressure on engines that weren't engineered for it.
Wait for the real thing from Nissan, or plan to stay real busy on rebuilds.
Dead
Be sure to document everything well. You WILL pop that engine. Good documentation will save others from the desire to put aftermarket pressure on engines that weren't engineered for it.
Wait for the real thing from Nissan, or plan to stay real busy on rebuilds.
Dead
An S2000 can safely handle 8psi, an E46 M3 can also handle about 6-8psi, VW's 24V VR6 will handle 8psi, an IS300 will handle almost 10psi all on stock internals that were not engineered for it- granted if they are not properly tuned you can blow anything up.
10-20-2002, 11:23 AM
#13
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Re: Re: kill it
Originally posted by spooled
Are you serious? An S2000 can safely handle 8psi, an E46 M3 can also handle about 6-8psi, VW's 24V VR6 will handle 8psi, an IS300 will handle almost 10psi all on stock internals that were not engineered for it- granted if they are not properly tuned you can blow anything up.
Are you serious?
An S2000 can safely handle 8psi, an E46 M3 can also handle about 6-8psi, VW's 24V VR6 will handle 8psi, an IS300 will handle almost 10psi all on stock internals that were not engineered for it- granted if they are not properly tuned you can blow anything up.
10-20-2002, 01:18 PM
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Re: Re: kill it
Originally posted by spooled
Are you serious? An S2000 can safely handle 8psi, an E46 M3 can also handle about 6-8psi, VW's 24V VR6 will handle 8psi, an IS300 will handle almost 10psi all on stock internals that were not engineered for it- granted if they are not properly tuned you can blow anything up.
Are you serious?
An S2000 can safely handle 8psi, an E46 M3 can also handle about 6-8psi, VW's 24V VR6 will handle 8psi, an IS300 will handle almost 10psi all on stock internals that were not engineered for it- granted if they are not properly tuned you can blow anything up.
In the real world, most who go to the expense and trouble to add a turbo to a 350 are so speed-hungry that to expect them to keep it at 8psi is nice to dream about, but it's not reality.
Most likely, by the time the bugs could be worked out on such a project, Nissan will already have one in the showroom. The main advantage is that it will have a warranty. How much to replace a blown up 350 engine out of pocket? $10,000? $12,000?
If you can afford that kind of risk, congratulations. I can't.
Dead
10-20-2002, 01:36 PM
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I talked with on of the guys there about hte SC (In fact is was the guy pictured in the car but I don't remember his name). The SC shown is in what he called final prototype stages. Ther are still tuning it. The car had no boost guages or anything else added to the cockpit.
He wouldn't specify the release date. According to him to get CARB cert you have to use production parts, not prototypes. He wouldn't say what PSI it was running or even state what their target boost level was. He did say that there will be NO ECU changes for this kit (warning will robinson).
I talked with several people including a guy from Nismo and they all agree that the ECU is going to be the biggest headache for the aftermarket, and siginificant safe gains will only happen after the ECU codes are cracked and can be manipulated. (lead me to think that Nismo will have a great advantage for a while).
He wouldn't specify the release date. According to him to get CARB cert you have to use production parts, not prototypes. He wouldn't say what PSI it was running or even state what their target boost level was. He did say that there will be NO ECU changes for this kit (warning will robinson).
I talked with several people including a guy from Nismo and they all agree that the ECU is going to be the biggest headache for the aftermarket, and siginificant safe gains will only happen after the ECU codes are cracked and can be manipulated. (lead me to think that Nismo will have a great advantage for a while).
10-20-2002, 03:03 PM
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Re: Re: kill it
Originally posted by spooled
Are you serious? An S2000 can safely handle 8psi, an E46 M3 can also handle about 6-8psi, VW's 24V VR6 will handle 8psi, an IS300 will handle almost 10psi all on stock internals that were not engineered for it- granted if they are not properly tuned you can blow anything up.
Are you serious?
An S2000 can safely handle 8psi, an E46 M3 can also handle about 6-8psi, VW's 24V VR6 will handle 8psi, an IS300 will handle almost 10psi all on stock internals that were not engineered for it- granted if they are not properly tuned you can blow anything up.
10-20-2002, 05:29 PM
#17
Dunno about everyone else, but . . . if it can net me a +~100HP powerup relatively safely, then I can put up with a lump in my hood
All things considered though, I'd like to see what some other tuners can come up with, because if Stillen is this far along, then I wonder what Mine's, Power Enterprise, Nismo and Top Secret have come up with....
All things considered though, I'd like to see what some other tuners can come up with, because if Stillen is this far along, then I wonder what Mine's, Power Enterprise, Nismo and Top Secret have come up with....
10-20-2002, 08:09 PM
#18
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Re: Re: Re: kill it
Originally posted by frayed
Define 'safely'. I've seen aftermarket forced induction on several different model cars running 'safe' amounts of boost melt down on the track. Hell, even factory forced induction cars can run into issues in the heat and on the track. An S4 and a 911TT come to mind.
Define 'safely'. I've seen aftermarket forced induction on several different model cars running 'safe' amounts of boost melt down on the track. Hell, even factory forced induction cars can run into issues in the heat and on the track. An S4 and a 911TT come to mind.
If the driver does not know what heatsoak is, what detonation sounds like, what safe levels are for egts (some don't even mount the egt probe in the right place either), how there car reacts to 100 ambient temps, what the effects of race gas are, etc then there is no way for that car to run safe boost. If you choose to introduce forced induction on a naturally aspirated car you should know all of the above and some or you are asking for trouble.
10-20-2002, 08:12 PM
#19
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Re: Re: Re: Re: kill it
Originally posted by spooled
Safely would be - definitely proper tuning so that detonation fueling and egt etc are in check, also having the necessary gauges so that the driver can monitor the activity under agressive driving, but even this is no good if the driver does not understand what causes a blown motor and the teltale signs that something is a little wrong before blowing the whole thing.
If the driver does not know what heatsoak is, what detonation sounds like, what safe levels are for egts (some don't even mount the egt probe in the right place either), how there car reacts to 100 ambient temps, what the effects of race gas are, etc then there is no way for that car to run safe boost. If you choose to introduce forced induction on a naturally aspirated car you should know all of the above and some or you are asking for trouble.
Safely would be - definitely proper tuning so that detonation fueling and egt etc are in check, also having the necessary gauges so that the driver can monitor the activity under agressive driving, but even this is no good if the driver does not understand what causes a blown motor and the teltale signs that something is a little wrong before blowing the whole thing.
If the driver does not know what heatsoak is, what detonation sounds like, what safe levels are for egts (some don't even mount the egt probe in the right place either), how there car reacts to 100 ambient temps, what the effects of race gas are, etc then there is no way for that car to run safe boost. If you choose to introduce forced induction on a naturally aspirated car you should know all of the above and some or you are asking for trouble.
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