Just read the good news in R&T.
09-24-2008, 10:43 PM
#141
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09-25-2008, 04:11 AM
#142
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On Topic: yay 370z
09-25-2008, 07:30 PM
#143
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Not to ask a stupid question but what do lap times with a difference of seconds between cars have to do with actually driving these cars in everyday life?
(yeah, I know, my bias is showing. 
09-28-2008, 12:15 PM
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Let me guess, you must be a Vette owner. Suprise. The Vette is such a great car yet GM is on the brink of bankruptsy or going out of business.
Go put 150,000 - 200,000 miles on a GTR and the same on a Vette and then see what you have. The GTR is a far better car than the Vette.
Go put 150,000 - 200,000 miles on a GTR and the same on a Vette and then see what you have. The GTR is a far better car than the Vette.
There are plenty of C5s out on the streets with 150-200K doing just fine. There some in the 250-300K these days.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...hlight=300,000
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...ighlight=miles
Yes, the Corvette is a great car. They hold together just fine.
who cares about the C6ZO6 and its price range and performance in camparison to the GTR. The GTR is FAAAAAR superior car that can actually handle boost. Unlike the fragile, crackling, weak LS7 who keeps cracking under boost. Thats the reason the ZR1 was built on a LS9 aka modified LS2.....please
http://www.mtiracing.com/artmaverick...argedls7s.html
Last edited by JCSVT; 09-28-2008 at 12:25 PM.
09-28-2008, 12:44 PM
#150
Chevy engines are some of the poorest made. But the LS1 is in it's own league...one of the best built. Don't get me started on how many pos engines GM made that blow head gaskets in under 30k of miles.
For a 300k vette, that thing looks spotless!
For a 300k vette, that thing looks spotless!
09-28-2008, 12:55 PM
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Not really. The old V6s had a bad reputation(well deserved) because of the lower IM gasket failures and the Quad 4s sucked too. That's old news though. In general I feel GM's powertrain division is one of the best out there. The automatic transmissions are some of the best in the world(still used by BMW), the high feature V6s and V8s make great power, and the Ecotec is one of the best 4s out too in my opinion.
09-28-2008, 01:06 PM
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Now that you've mentioned it, I've never heard that one either. All I've heard is some of the V6s having gasket problems and dumping coolant into the engine.
Certainly nothing worse than Nissan's QR25 debacle.
Every company has engine problems. Some designs just don't work as planned in the real world.
Certainly nothing worse than Nissan's QR25 debacle.
Every company has engine problems. Some designs just don't work as planned in the real world.
09-28-2008, 01:31 PM
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Now that you've mentioned it, I've never heard that one either. All I've heard is some of the V6s having gasket problems and dumping coolant into the engine.
Certainly nothing worse than Nissan's QR25 debacle.
Every company has engine problems. Some designs just don't work as planned in the real world.
Certainly nothing worse than Nissan's QR25 debacle.
Every company has engine problems. Some designs just don't work as planned in the real world.
09-28-2008, 02:25 PM
#154
Not really. The old V6s had a bad reputation(well deserved) because of the lower IM gasket failures and the Quad 4s sucked too. That's old news though. In general I feel GM's powertrain division is one of the best out there. The automatic transmissions are some of the best in the world(still used by BMW), the high feature V6s and V8s make great power, and the Ecotec is one of the best 4s out too in my opinion.
09-28-2008, 02:27 PM
#155
Many have. Do a search. 3100, 3300, 3400, 3800 all had headgasket problems. The Quad 4, in the Grand Ams and Sunfires had issues with gasket problems. Water pump issues are common as well. 98-99 LS1s had ring problems too.
GM hasn't receive near the amount of awards as the Japanese have, especially Nissan with the VQ.
09-28-2008, 02:29 PM
#156
To stay competitive, American cars had to come a long way, and their quality now rivals or beats most foreign auto makers. The problem is they have such a bad rap, that a lot of Americans bash them without really looking at the facts.
I'm Xavier Frost and I approve this message.
I'm Xavier Frost and I approve this message.
09-28-2008, 02:36 PM
#157
What awards?! They are still below the big 3 Japanese in quality. If you are going to make a broad statement like that, provide facts with proof.
GM/Ford/Chrysler have a LONG LONG way to go to get their quality anywhere close to Honda/Toyota/Nissan. Even Hyundai is better than some of these brands. GM has come a long way I will say that in quality, but it still has a long way to go to meet what the japan companies have.
Funny, your opinion which is not a fact.
GM/Ford/Chrysler have a LONG LONG way to go to get their quality anywhere close to Honda/Toyota/Nissan. Even Hyundai is better than some of these brands. GM has come a long way I will say that in quality, but it still has a long way to go to meet what the japan companies have.
Funny, your opinion which is not a fact.
Last edited by SOLO-350Z; 09-28-2008 at 02:45 PM.
09-28-2008, 02:37 PM
#158
2008 Top Quality:
Top Ranked Vehicles:
Subcompact: Kia Rio/Rio5
Compact: Honda Civic
Compact Sporty: Mazda MX-5 Miata
Compact Premium Sporty: Porsche Boxster
Entry Premium: Lincoln MKZ
Midsized Premium: Mercedes-Benz E-class
Large Premium: Audi A8/Mercedes-Benz S-class
Premium Sporty: Mercedes-Benz SL-class
Midsized Sporty: Ford Mustang
Midsize: Mercury Milan
Large: Pontiac Grand Prix
Compact SUV: Honda CR-V
Midsize SUV: Toyota 4Runner
Large SUV: Toyota Sequoia
Midsize Premium SUV: Lexus RX
Large Premium SUV: Lincoln Mark LT
Large Pickup: Chevrolet Silverado Classic HD
Midsize Pickup: Toyota Tacoma
Van: Chevrolet Express
Top Ranked Vehicles:
Subcompact: Kia Rio/Rio5
Compact: Honda Civic
Compact Sporty: Mazda MX-5 Miata
Compact Premium Sporty: Porsche Boxster
Entry Premium: Lincoln MKZ
Midsized Premium: Mercedes-Benz E-class
Large Premium: Audi A8/Mercedes-Benz S-class
Premium Sporty: Mercedes-Benz SL-class
Midsized Sporty: Ford Mustang
Midsize: Mercury Milan
Large: Pontiac Grand Prix
Compact SUV: Honda CR-V
Midsize SUV: Toyota 4Runner
Large SUV: Toyota Sequoia
Midsize Premium SUV: Lexus RX
Large Premium SUV: Lincoln Mark LT
Large Pickup: Chevrolet Silverado Classic HD
Midsize Pickup: Toyota Tacoma
Van: Chevrolet Express
09-28-2008, 02:43 PM
#160
GM, Ford reliability improves
But Asian automakers top Consumer Reports' annual rankings of best vehicles sold in nation.
David Shepardson / Detroit News Washington Bureau
WASHINGTON -- Consumer Reports, in its influential annual report on the best cars and trucks, praised General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. for improving the quality and reliability of their products, but Asian automakers continued to dominate the magazine's best-in-class and overall rankings.
GM's Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Crew Cab was named the best pickup -- the first American nameplate to make the magazine's closely watched "Top Picks" list since 2005.
Hyundai Motor Co. became the first South Korean automaker to make the list, with its Elantra SE named best small sedan and the Santa Fe named best midsize SUV.
Advertisement
Honda Motor Co. repeated as the best automaker overall, with Toyota Motor Corp. second and Subaru third. The rankings are determined by giving each automaker an average score based on vehicle road tests and reliability data. Honda and Subaru were the only companies to have all of their tested vehicles recommended by Consumer Reports; Honda is the only one whose entire lineup was recommended.
The annual survey of the best vehicles and manufacturers carries enormous weight with car buyers, and is based on surveys filled out by 1.3 million Consumer Reports subscribers and Web site users. Surveys by automakers suggest that as many as 15 percent of vehicle buyers consider Consumer Reports' rankings.
The magazine praised GM and Ford for improving, though they still rank ahead of only one foreign automaker, Suzuki, in the overall rankings.
"GM and Ford have been making significant progress recently," David Champion, senior director of automotive testing for Consumer Reports, said Thursday at a speech in Washington.
Chrysler LLC tied for last with Suzuki. The magazine had harsh words for Chrysler: The new Jeep Patriot and Liberty "are saddled with cheap looking and uncomfortable interiors and are too noisy and slow to be competitive."
Just 14 percent of Chrysler vehicles tested were recommended, down from 21 percent last year.
"Chrysler has dropped considerably. Their cars have not performed well in our testing," Champion said. The company is in the "dumps" and "really needs work."
Mary Beth Halprin, a Chrysler spokeswoman, said the company has done well in other independent testing, but declined to respond to the specific criticism.
"While we value the report, Chrysler has also received positive feedback from other third-party sources," she said.
The magazine recommended 30 percent of GM vehicles tested, down from 36 percent in 2007, because some redesigned SUVs proved unreliable. Still, Buick moved up eight positions to No. 10 in the brand reliability rankings, Saturn moved up six spots and some new or redesigned models, including the Silverado, GMC Acadia and Sierra and the Saturn Outlook, had average or better reliability in their first year. GM also won praise for new vehicles like the Cadillac CTS, which outscored the BMW 328i and Mercedes C300; the magazine called it a "wake-up call" for German automakers.
GM spokeswoman Janine Fruehan said the automaker is making significant improvements as it brings new vehicles to market. Of all the Ford vehicles tested, Consumer Reports recommended 64 percent, up from 54 percent in 2007, because of improved reliability, with the automaker ranking fifth in reliability. But Ford vehicles lack "charisma," Champion said.
Even though Toyota had four vehicles among the magazine's Top Picks, its reliability has suffered. Consumer Reports said the 2007 redesigns of the V-8 Tundra pickup and V-6 Camry have below average reliability and the vehicles will no longer be recommended without being tested, as the magazine had done in the past.
Toyota spokesman John Hanson said the Tundra had an issue with a torque converter and the Camry with a retainer clip, but both have been resolved.
"We will never argue with their results," he said. "We just want to find out as much as we can to improve."
Hyundai's head of product quality, Barry Ratzlaff, said its Top Pick awards were a big honor. The magazine dinged Hyundai, however, for lacking vehicles that "are agile or sporty to drive."
The Lexus LS 460L, the Top Pick for luxury sedans, was the highest rated vehicle. The Mazda MX-5 Miata claimed the "Fun to Drive" category, and the Toyota Prius again was named top "green" car.
The magazine bought about 80 vehicles and put them through about 50 tests for reliability, fuel efficiency, comfort, performance, and interior fit and finish. It runs its tests on 327 acres of testing facilities near Hartford, Conn.
The rules were revised this year so only vehicles that come with electronic stability control standard or as a widely available option could be eligible for a Top Pick. As a result, the Nissan Alitma lost out as best Family Sedan to the Honda Accord, even though the Altima had higher test scores.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration now requires that all vehicles come with the anti-rollover technology by the 2012 model year.
Nissan declined to say when the feature would become standard on the Altima, but said the vehicle gets high marks in every other category.
But Asian automakers top Consumer Reports' annual rankings of best vehicles sold in nation.
David Shepardson / Detroit News Washington Bureau
WASHINGTON -- Consumer Reports, in its influential annual report on the best cars and trucks, praised General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. for improving the quality and reliability of their products, but Asian automakers continued to dominate the magazine's best-in-class and overall rankings.
GM's Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Crew Cab was named the best pickup -- the first American nameplate to make the magazine's closely watched "Top Picks" list since 2005.
Hyundai Motor Co. became the first South Korean automaker to make the list, with its Elantra SE named best small sedan and the Santa Fe named best midsize SUV.
Advertisement
Honda Motor Co. repeated as the best automaker overall, with Toyota Motor Corp. second and Subaru third. The rankings are determined by giving each automaker an average score based on vehicle road tests and reliability data. Honda and Subaru were the only companies to have all of their tested vehicles recommended by Consumer Reports; Honda is the only one whose entire lineup was recommended.
The annual survey of the best vehicles and manufacturers carries enormous weight with car buyers, and is based on surveys filled out by 1.3 million Consumer Reports subscribers and Web site users. Surveys by automakers suggest that as many as 15 percent of vehicle buyers consider Consumer Reports' rankings.
The magazine praised GM and Ford for improving, though they still rank ahead of only one foreign automaker, Suzuki, in the overall rankings.
"GM and Ford have been making significant progress recently," David Champion, senior director of automotive testing for Consumer Reports, said Thursday at a speech in Washington.
Chrysler LLC tied for last with Suzuki. The magazine had harsh words for Chrysler: The new Jeep Patriot and Liberty "are saddled with cheap looking and uncomfortable interiors and are too noisy and slow to be competitive."
Just 14 percent of Chrysler vehicles tested were recommended, down from 21 percent last year.
"Chrysler has dropped considerably. Their cars have not performed well in our testing," Champion said. The company is in the "dumps" and "really needs work."
Mary Beth Halprin, a Chrysler spokeswoman, said the company has done well in other independent testing, but declined to respond to the specific criticism.
"While we value the report, Chrysler has also received positive feedback from other third-party sources," she said.
The magazine recommended 30 percent of GM vehicles tested, down from 36 percent in 2007, because some redesigned SUVs proved unreliable. Still, Buick moved up eight positions to No. 10 in the brand reliability rankings, Saturn moved up six spots and some new or redesigned models, including the Silverado, GMC Acadia and Sierra and the Saturn Outlook, had average or better reliability in their first year. GM also won praise for new vehicles like the Cadillac CTS, which outscored the BMW 328i and Mercedes C300; the magazine called it a "wake-up call" for German automakers.
GM spokeswoman Janine Fruehan said the automaker is making significant improvements as it brings new vehicles to market. Of all the Ford vehicles tested, Consumer Reports recommended 64 percent, up from 54 percent in 2007, because of improved reliability, with the automaker ranking fifth in reliability. But Ford vehicles lack "charisma," Champion said.
Even though Toyota had four vehicles among the magazine's Top Picks, its reliability has suffered. Consumer Reports said the 2007 redesigns of the V-8 Tundra pickup and V-6 Camry have below average reliability and the vehicles will no longer be recommended without being tested, as the magazine had done in the past.
Toyota spokesman John Hanson said the Tundra had an issue with a torque converter and the Camry with a retainer clip, but both have been resolved.
"We will never argue with their results," he said. "We just want to find out as much as we can to improve."
Hyundai's head of product quality, Barry Ratzlaff, said its Top Pick awards were a big honor. The magazine dinged Hyundai, however, for lacking vehicles that "are agile or sporty to drive."
The Lexus LS 460L, the Top Pick for luxury sedans, was the highest rated vehicle. The Mazda MX-5 Miata claimed the "Fun to Drive" category, and the Toyota Prius again was named top "green" car.
The magazine bought about 80 vehicles and put them through about 50 tests for reliability, fuel efficiency, comfort, performance, and interior fit and finish. It runs its tests on 327 acres of testing facilities near Hartford, Conn.
The rules were revised this year so only vehicles that come with electronic stability control standard or as a widely available option could be eligible for a Top Pick. As a result, the Nissan Alitma lost out as best Family Sedan to the Honda Accord, even though the Altima had higher test scores.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration now requires that all vehicles come with the anti-rollover technology by the 2012 model year.
Nissan declined to say when the feature would become standard on the Altima, but said the vehicle gets high marks in every other category.