crockerjarmon

Looks like Porsche has again upped the playing field:

http://www.porsche.com/microsite/cayman/usa.aspx

I wonder how this 09 Cayman S will fare against the 370Z

Firebase99

Holy crap. The 09 CS has 320HP and 273lbs of torque and weighs 3,031lbs. The 370Z has NO chance. The days of the Z "hanging" with the Cayman are over. Wow.

PA 19103

You get what you pay for and I believe you are also paying for the name "Porsche". Cayman S currently starts at over $59,000. Tiptronic S is over $62,000. I am not so sure Porsche buyers are getting twice the thrill and speed.

trebien

It's what I've been saying... the 370Z is just NOW catching up to the current Cayman S... with about the same power/weight ratio.

old CS 2975 lbs/295HP = 10:1
new 370 3300 lbs/330HP = 10:1
new CS 3031 lbs/320HP = 9.5:1 (not to mention dual cluth tranny advantages)

Go drive a CS... a good, 1 hour test drive. People just don't understand... that chassis is amazing when you push it... and now even better. Of course, either car will get you to the grocery store. But so will a civic, if that's all you want.

The new CS with 320 HP and a dual clutch tranny will blow away the 300 pound heavier Z... straight or track... especially now that it's available with a LSD. It's quite a car for the money... even at $65K.

And I doubt the 370Z will crack 8 minutes on the Nordschleife. In those GT comparos, the HP went up a lot, but so did the torque. Not that it matters... a 3300 pound 370Z with 332 HP will not crack 8 minutes on the NS. The current Cayman S with the same power/weight ratio as the new 370Z has a best time of 8:10... and I don't think anybody here is dumb enough to think the 300 pound lighter CS has an inferior track setup than the Z.

Although the new CS with PDK will probably break 8:00...

PA 19103

I don't have $65K
If I had $65K, there are other better cars than Cayman S to buy anyway.

Firebase99

Well there is an equation called point of diminishing returns. I think at the current $30K to $40K price, the Z is maxed out. So the statement "you get what you pay for" is spot on.

crockerjarmon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_Cayman

If you notice, the Cayman S ran the Nordschleife faster than the 325PS 911 Carrera, but Porsche had to fudge the time so the Cayman S doesn't over take the Carrera in sales. In short, if the 370Z was meant to compete with the Cayman S (not the 09 model), then it will no doubt dominate the base 325PS Carrera as well. For the money, the 370Z is one of the best bang for the buck deal for a sports coupe.

By the way, the new 09 Cayman is actually 315HP, the 320 rating is in PS. I don't know why Porsche is advertising the car at 320HP.

SnakeBitten

iTrader: (8)

Doesnt matter..315hp or 320hp as I said imho the 370 will not be beating one in the straights or twisties.....Nice move Porsche. Look for the Cayman S to do around 7:55 at the Ring.

SnakeBitten

iTrader: (8)

Yeah it does give a ballpark idea of what a car can do there. but it doesnt simulate hot, cold weather or wet or damp sections of track...Hopefully Nissan will run it on a dry track with great weather. Surprised they havent done or released any lap times yet.

BTW this is the regular Z so if it can beat the old Cayman S time its a great day. If you think about it you will realize that the new Nismo Z has a performance target with the PDK Cayman S. The old Nismo Z was as fast as the Cayman S from what Ive read so that may be a sign that the next Nismo Z may possibly being at least close to it in performance. Cayman S is the hopped up version of the Cayman line so its only fair to judge the Nismo 370z against it instead of the regular 370Z. So Im not totally disappointed with the 370z's numbers. Hope the Nismo version comes in much lighter and they make it more focused for the track like a mini ACR.

Ataru074

iTrader: (19)

this one is the telemetry of a friend of mine with a cayman S on Rijeka track.
his car is bone stock cayman S porche design 1 (heavier than the base) with only TE37 diamond black and bridgestone RE050a tires...
it was his 5th track day... and on the turns he's pushing more than 1g constantly... with peaks over 1.2... just for reference the same day the fastest was a 996 GT3 full tuned with slick tires lapping in 1:43 (7 seconds faster)
M2 E92 with street tires and an experienced driver was about at 1:47



<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/-37GkhyGe-a1kReJSSm20w"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_txRK3mmWgA0/SSVZSA88E4I/AAAAAAAAEi4/JCJdzwc9FqY/s800/Picture%201.png" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/matteo.iaco/Cazzate">cazzate</a></td></tr></table>

trebien

Agreed, but it's going to take 345HP and a DCT of their own for the NISMO to match it... and there's still 300 pounds of weight disadvantage to overcome in the handling department.

You can bet that Nissan has run the ring (and Tochigi) with the 370Z, and if it was good, the numbers would have surfaced by now...

At over 3300 pounds, a sport package Z still needs to lose some weight if it wants to compete with Porsche, both in a straight line and especially in the curves...

Mansmind

One of the first things I did on my 07 was ditch the stock suspension. It's a totally different car handling-wise with what I have on it. Granted it's a step beyond what the Nismo version supposedly has, but put 3 or 4k in the suspension and you have a VERY well handling car.

Ataru074

iTrader: (19)

If you know how to fine tune that suspension system... otherwise you could also loose ground where it matters.. the track.
feeling the car stiffer and firmer on the ground don't mean it actually faster. track times is what matter in that kind of competition.. and for example, a full "track tuned" car like a ferrari enzo is too stiff and low for the nurburgring.

Demon Z

iTrader: (1)

I know GT's just a game, but just for entertainment purposes...


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Mansmind

sure, I'm sure mine is also...in fact it's too stiff for a lot of places...like the dragon. Where it's not too stiff however, it's very very nice.

Endgame

How quickly we forget. Don't count out Nissan just yet. Look what the 400-500 pound more GTR did to Porche.....

I am not saying the Z has all of the technical gizmos as the GTR, but we should not count it out... the results may be closer than we think.....

SnakeBitten

iTrader: (8)

I concur and the old Nismo Z was also heavier than the Cayman S by about the same margin but still held its own. Dont want to say its the power advantage because the Cayman S was actually just as fast in the straights if memory serves. 295hp vs 306 is less of an advantage than the 300lb advantage the old Cayman S has over the old Nismo Z. Feel free to correct me if Im wrong on the numbers. Going off memory.

Also even if Nissan doesnt drop significant weight to make the next Nismo Z more focused they can always do as you implied. Give it more power and tune the handling accordingly. Id much prefer them just dropping 100lbs + off the Nismo than the power bump if money dictates they could "ONLY" do one.

I think the 370z will do fine vs the regular Cayman but Nissan bit off more than it can chew going after the Cayman S. It didnt take much to put that remarkable chassis/engine combo out of reach for the new 370z. 320hp, sub 3000lbs and PDK means lights out for the Z. Nissan dropped the ball but can pick it back up witha focused Nismo version. Alot of Zphiles would gladly give up alot of the new accutrements for much less weight. I really hope Nissan does this with the Nismo. With the shared FR-L platform no chance in anything based on it coming in at 3000lbs or lighter it seems. So best we could probably hope for is 3120lb[which would be great] or thereabouts for the Nismo Im thinking.

trebien

^ I agree, but (unfortunately) it will take a lot to lose weight on the 370Z. They've already done the easy stuff, like lighter wheels, aluminum hood, doors and hatch, etc. Even the Touring's power seats are only 4 way power... Nissan really tried (but failed) to keep it light. They're coming out with some porkers, a la G37.

There aren't really any easy (cheap) ways to lose weight from here. Sure, sound deadening and other assorted small items/techno features. But that's it.

From a financial point of view, it would cost very little to retune the ECU and improve the intake/exhaust to make 18 more HP for a total fo 350HP. Add in the DCT tranny, and you're in the game... albeit 300 pounds heavier. And thank goodness, those Americans look at straight line acceleration numbers more than lap times (they do love themselves some magazine racing), and it would be competitive with the CS PDK in that dept. But that's about the only way you're going to compete financially.

SnakeBitten

iTrader: (8)

Most definately. But the Cayman S is mid engined and can also get coiloversDont underestimate that PDK. I seen a normal non turbo 911 equipped with PDK out pace the GTR in the 1/4 on a videozine recently. The non turbo 911 is just as fast as the lighter more powerful GT3 according to the story. That tranny will make the Cayman S a rocket. I wont be surprised to see over 110mph traps from a Cayman S. Dont see the Z having a chance with only suspension in the twisties. Its the whole Cayman S package vs just a suspension change on the Z. Z is a very good handling car dont get me wrong but that Cayman S package is superior. Im hoping the Nismo Z equals or betters it but I dont know how serious Nissan is anymore after seeing the specs on the 370z.

Mansmind

Oh I agree completely. It's a totally different animal in the balance and weight department. My only point is that if they "happened" to be close, it's relatively easy to improve handling on the Z substantially. I'm not a Porsche guy (although I'd like to be) so I don't know how easy it can be for those guys...or at what cost.