Test drove E92 M3, Audi S5, and 370Z. Likely trading in 350Z for 370Z.
11-08-2010 | 04:46 AM
#61
I'm not going to comment on which cars rattle or not as there is no real scientific way to quantify it, except to say: Do you want to spend your time fixing something that really shouldn't happen in the first place? Or spend your time shuttling the car to and from a dealership so they can fix what shouldn't happen in the first place? I wouldn't. It's not like these are cheap cars to purchase or finance and such rattles are to be expected.
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 11-08-2010 at 04:48 AM.
11-09-2010 | 06:06 AM
#64
A significant reason why I sold my g35 was the little things, some of which may not pertain to others. I was tired of things going wrong/quirks with f/i and my other mods; very frustrating. Things might have been different if I went a different route/chose other shops, but it's dissapointing to realize the amount of money I spent over 5 years and only driving 26,300 miles, most of which I did not enjoy.
Add to the fact that I had Infiniti techs f@ck up my interior door and drivers seat leather, replacing it, but things never fit like factory and certain things were off and levers rubbed when they shouldn't, also rattles after all this work.
I thought about going turbo/tt, but could not justify pouring more money into it, and did not want to deal with building a motor if/when it blew due to the added stress.
It's good not to quit and keep trying, but sometimes you need to know when to thrown in the towel when you are in a losing battle
The bottom line for me is that I know now, to buy a car that is fast enough and feels good enough to me in factory form. My experience with the g has generally turned me off to modding and I have come to appreciate the value of the small things done correctly, such as driving feel and overall refinement in factory form.
For me the G always felt heavy, not nimble, even with full bolt ons, s/c, suspension upgrades, etc. The seats were not comfortable and I could not find an optimom seating position for appropriate pedal work, and the leather was of questionable quality, and potential for excessive oil consumption.
I have now learned to seek what I want in factory form and not to buy something in hopes in will feel right after extensive modification.
For me, that means saving for and waiting for a m3, even if it means driving a 2000 corrola in the mean time, lol. Other cars I would like, but are likely less attainable for me would be the gtr and rs4. But I would be quite happy with a m3.
I do not mean to bash the mod scene, but the issues I had, and the huge dent in my wallet, the majority of which will not be recouped, has made me disillusioned.
My apologies for going slightly o/t.
Op, good luck with getting your new car and hopefully your loan was approved. The 370z is a bargain compared to the other choices you listed and gets better mpg(I'm just swayed towards the BMW and may wait until the negt gen comes out, rumoured to be inline 6 turbo).
Add to the fact that I had Infiniti techs f@ck up my interior door and drivers seat leather, replacing it, but things never fit like factory and certain things were off and levers rubbed when they shouldn't, also rattles after all this work.
I thought about going turbo/tt, but could not justify pouring more money into it, and did not want to deal with building a motor if/when it blew due to the added stress.
It's good not to quit and keep trying, but sometimes you need to know when to thrown in the towel when you are in a losing battle
The bottom line for me is that I know now, to buy a car that is fast enough and feels good enough to me in factory form. My experience with the g has generally turned me off to modding and I have come to appreciate the value of the small things done correctly, such as driving feel and overall refinement in factory form.
For me the G always felt heavy, not nimble, even with full bolt ons, s/c, suspension upgrades, etc. The seats were not comfortable and I could not find an optimom seating position for appropriate pedal work, and the leather was of questionable quality, and potential for excessive oil consumption.
I have now learned to seek what I want in factory form and not to buy something in hopes in will feel right after extensive modification.
For me, that means saving for and waiting for a m3, even if it means driving a 2000 corrola in the mean time, lol. Other cars I would like, but are likely less attainable for me would be the gtr and rs4. But I would be quite happy with a m3.
I do not mean to bash the mod scene, but the issues I had, and the huge dent in my wallet, the majority of which will not be recouped, has made me disillusioned.
My apologies for going slightly o/t.
Op, good luck with getting your new car and hopefully your loan was approved. The 370z is a bargain compared to the other choices you listed and gets better mpg(I'm just swayed towards the BMW and may wait until the negt gen comes out, rumoured to be inline 6 turbo).
11-09-2010 | 08:41 AM
#66
If you spend big money modding a car and then get into an accident, do you think your insurance company will pay for the value of all aftermarket parts or just the value of the vehicle/factory parts?
I am still of the opinion that if you highly modify a car (F/I on a N/A vehicle or the like--not just bolt-ons), the car will never be as reliable as stock and will be more prone to problems. Anyone who says that their 400whp+ Z/G drives like stock is either lying or doesn't drive their car very often.
11-09-2010 | 12:13 PM
#67
11-09-2010 | 01:15 PM
#69
yes, but they are covered under factory warranty, lemon law, designed by oem, and is covered by insurance.
If you spend big money modding a car and then get into an accident, do you think your insurance company will pay for the value of all aftermarket parts or just the value of the vehicle/factory parts?
I am still of the opinion that if you highly modify a car (F/I on a N/A vehicle or the like--not just bolt-ons), the car will never be as reliable as stock and will be more prone to problems. Anyone who says that their 400whp+ Z/G drives like stock is either lying or doesn't drive their car very often.
If you spend big money modding a car and then get into an accident, do you think your insurance company will pay for the value of all aftermarket parts or just the value of the vehicle/factory parts?
I am still of the opinion that if you highly modify a car (F/I on a N/A vehicle or the like--not just bolt-ons), the car will never be as reliable as stock and will be more prone to problems. Anyone who says that their 400whp+ Z/G drives like stock is either lying or doesn't drive their car very often.
11-09-2010 | 01:33 PM
#70
I am still of the opinion that if you highly modify a car (F/I on a N/A vehicle or the like--not just bolt-ons), the car will never be as reliable as stock and will be more prone to problems. Anyone who says that their 400whp+ Z/G drives like stock is either lying or doesn't drive their car very often.
Same goes for any high performance car, be it new or used - regardless of manufacturer. They all have quirks, and anecdotally you will always find those who said the car has been flawless and has never been back to the dealer, and others who's car spend their lives at the dealer, or shop, being fixed. Once you resign yourself to it simply being the luck of the draw, it becomes alot easier to live with IMHO
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 11-09-2010 at 01:36 PM.
11-09-2010 | 01:46 PM
#71
I've been trying to decide between a new car, and not quite sure what I wanted. My 350Z has left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I love it, it's great, but the interior has gotten so drab and the absolute lack of refinement has began to drive me mad. First, I drove the E92 M3 DCT, and while I liked it, the interior kept throwing me off. The gauges were bland, as was the center console, and something about it kept feeling cheap to me. I also couldn't help shake the feeling that the numerous 328i and 335i Coupes that passed me during the drive don't exactly help the M3 stand out. Still, the M3 is very quick, especially once those revs build and while I'm not a fan of dual clutch transmissions (they feel soulless and hollow), I do admit they are absolutely incredible in execution.
Next, I test drove an Audi S5 6MT. I loved the V8 rumble, I loved the V8 midrange punch. But I don't love the price and I don't love how common they are. Furthermore, the S5 is underpowered. Yes, it's a nice and quick machine, but it feels heavy and it could definitely use some touching up in the low-end torque department. Fortunately, the supercharged V6 is set to arrive next summer for the S5, but I don't wish to wait that long. That said, there were also certain other qualities about the S5 that bother me...the doors close cheaply. Where as the BMW closes its doors firmly, the Audi's door closes with a bit of a rattle and I've even verified this on my friend's A5 and all the other S5s that come my weekly meets.
So it was down to these two cars for the longest time, and I refused to look at anything else. I didn't want to consider the 370Z for fear of it being just another Nissan and suffering from the same cheapness the 350Z does. But I knew that the interior's been redone and some have said it's Infiniti-like. So I said why not, couldn't hurt.
Well, I made an appointment and went in with low-expectations. I test drove the 370Z today and I loved it. It was marginally slower than the E92 M3, but around town felt livelier because torque is delivered nearly in full below 2500RPM. Huge plus for me. And it simply rips to its redline with the quickness. It felt quicker than my modded 350Z. And it felt quicker than the 6MT Audi S5 I test drove. I drove a 7-speed Auto Z, which is a superb transmission for the car, but I'll definitely be getting a 6MT for mine.
I really liked the interior, the quality of the materials was exceptionally high for a vehicle in this class. The suede on the doors is a superb touch. The steering wheel feels thick and grippy, not like the 350Z wheel. The doors closed great, even when the window was rolled all the way down, there was no window rattle (like 350Zs do). The car I drove didn't even have the navigation, so I can't imagine how much nicer the center console looks when it's completed with navi.
All in all, I am thoroughly impressed, especially by the low-end power of the VQ37HR. I'm very likely going to get one, possibly around Christmas time in hopes of hitting a time period full of dealer incentives. I'm looking at White/Persimmon Leather + Touring + Sports + Navi. Or Black Cherry/Black Leather with those same options.
Once I've nailed my decision, I'll be doing a partout of my car soon.
Next, I test drove an Audi S5 6MT. I loved the V8 rumble, I loved the V8 midrange punch. But I don't love the price and I don't love how common they are. Furthermore, the S5 is underpowered. Yes, it's a nice and quick machine, but it feels heavy and it could definitely use some touching up in the low-end torque department. Fortunately, the supercharged V6 is set to arrive next summer for the S5, but I don't wish to wait that long. That said, there were also certain other qualities about the S5 that bother me...the doors close cheaply. Where as the BMW closes its doors firmly, the Audi's door closes with a bit of a rattle and I've even verified this on my friend's A5 and all the other S5s that come my weekly meets.
So it was down to these two cars for the longest time, and I refused to look at anything else. I didn't want to consider the 370Z for fear of it being just another Nissan and suffering from the same cheapness the 350Z does. But I knew that the interior's been redone and some have said it's Infiniti-like. So I said why not, couldn't hurt.
Well, I made an appointment and went in with low-expectations. I test drove the 370Z today and I loved it. It was marginally slower than the E92 M3, but around town felt livelier because torque is delivered nearly in full below 2500RPM. Huge plus for me. And it simply rips to its redline with the quickness. It felt quicker than my modded 350Z. And it felt quicker than the 6MT Audi S5 I test drove. I drove a 7-speed Auto Z, which is a superb transmission for the car, but I'll definitely be getting a 6MT for mine.
I really liked the interior, the quality of the materials was exceptionally high for a vehicle in this class. The suede on the doors is a superb touch. The steering wheel feels thick and grippy, not like the 350Z wheel. The doors closed great, even when the window was rolled all the way down, there was no window rattle (like 350Zs do). The car I drove didn't even have the navigation, so I can't imagine how much nicer the center console looks when it's completed with navi.
All in all, I am thoroughly impressed, especially by the low-end power of the VQ37HR. I'm very likely going to get one, possibly around Christmas time in hopes of hitting a time period full of dealer incentives. I'm looking at White/Persimmon Leather + Touring + Sports + Navi. Or Black Cherry/Black Leather with those same options.
Once I've nailed my decision, I'll be doing a partout of my car soon.
11-09-2010 | 02:26 PM
#72
Yes, there are insurance companies that will either simply pay you the value of anything installed on the car at the time of the accident or they will allow you take out an additional rider (of course at added cost to you) that will cover your additional modifications. Of course you will have to keep all of your receipts and have pictures as proof.
I would also be wary about telling my insurance company that an inusred car is heavily modified, with things like a turbo or such--seems like a reason for them to drop you.
11-09-2010 | 02:53 PM
#73
I wonder which insurance companies are those? I called multiple big insurance companies about this and they all said no. State Farm, which was my insurance company said that additional policy riders are not available for modifications or even for something like aftermarket wheels.
I would also be wary about telling my insurance company that an inusred car is heavily modified, with things like a turbo or such--seems like a reason for them to drop you.
I would also be wary about telling my insurance company that an inusred car is heavily modified, with things like a turbo or such--seems like a reason for them to drop you.
Allstate did (not sure if they still do, been awhile since I was with them). I had extensive mods to my S2000 which were all covered, and for which I was reimbursed when the car was totalled. In fact, car was still too new to have a depricated value (it was ~6 months old when I wrecked it), and this was when there were still waiting lists at lots of dealers, that they gave me exactly what I paid, plus the cost of the parts I had done. Had multiple cars insured with them over the course of years, all modded, some more heavily than others, and all the mods were on file with them. It may also vary by state, but suffice it to say, there is always someone to turn to.
There are also multiple specialty insurance companies out there as well that can write a variety of different policies. I have one such policy on another car of mine, through a local agent, which I think subbed it to a different agent in NJ, but it's ultimately underwritten by (I think) Met Life.
11-09-2010 | 04:39 PM
#74
Modding is not for everyone. It's like any other major project, be it home construction/renovation, marriage, etc. You're deluding yourself if you think it's not without potential problems. That is simply part of any major undertaking.
Same goes for any high performance car, be it new or used - regardless of manufacturer. They all have quirks, and anecdotally you will always find those who said the car has been flawless and has never been back to the dealer, and others who's car spend their lives at the dealer, or shop, being fixed. Once you resign yourself to it simply being the luck of the draw, it becomes alot easier to live with IMHO
Same goes for any high performance car, be it new or used - regardless of manufacturer. They all have quirks, and anecdotally you will always find those who said the car has been flawless and has never been back to the dealer, and others who's car spend their lives at the dealer, or shop, being fixed. Once you resign yourself to it simply being the luck of the draw, it becomes alot easier to live with IMHO
I guess I didn't have the best experience after I went S/C, and I didn't want to take another chance going T/TT, not knowing if the same type of problems would still exist. I also couldn't see myself going back to N/A and being happy so, I took all the parts off and sold the car. In retrospect, I should not have gone F/I and would likely have been happy not knowing the extra power of F/I, but also not knowing its potentialt drawbacks/problems. I tried to do things right, but like you say, sometimes it is the luck of the draw.
Sometimes I regret it, but having frustrations with the supercharger, and then needing rotors and pads for the Endless BBK, I thought it was a better option to sell and start anew with something else when the time is right.
In a situation such as mine, would the shop that did the work be willing to refund their labor, uninstall the parts, and pay for another shop to do things correctly since they could not resolve an issue brought back several times, presumably due to install/tune related? Of course not.
But if a "high" performance factory car has issues, they are at least covered by the factory warranty while it is in effect. Also, lemon laws offer protection for issues that cannot be fixed after multiple times. And CA lemon law requires an automaker to offer to buyback a car that is in the shop for more than 30 days.
But if you have deep pockets, patience, and an absolute love for modifying cars, none of this matters.
11-15-2010 | 07:07 PM
#76
Hopefully soon. It's all underway already. The car's been found, deposit made, trade-in satisfactory, just waiting for interest rate from Nissan and I need a shop to remove my exhaust mods.
11-16-2010 | 10:03 AM
#77
Faaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwk! >=(
I got approved for such an amazing loan, but the dealer that was supposed to hold the car for my dealer sold it! I'm so pissed it's not even funny. This is the second time this has happened to me.
4 years ago I had a deposit down on a 6MT 2006 LS2 GTO and it was sold. There's another fully loaded Black Cherry 370Z available, but it's too far out and it'd have to be driven 650 miles. =(
I got approved for such an amazing loan, but the dealer that was supposed to hold the car for my dealer sold it! I'm so pissed it's not even funny. This is the second time this has happened to me.
4 years ago I had a deposit down on a 6MT 2006 LS2 GTO and it was sold. There's another fully loaded Black Cherry 370Z available, but it's too far out and it'd have to be driven 650 miles. =(
11-16-2010 | 10:20 AM
#78
Faaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwk! >=(
I got approved for such an amazing loan, but the dealer that was supposed to hold the car for my dealer sold it! I'm so pissed it's not even funny. This is the second time this has happened to me.
4 years ago I had a deposit down on a 6MT 2006 LS2 GTO and it was sold. There's another fully loaded Black Cherry 370Z available, but it's too far out and it'd have to be driven 650 miles. =(
I got approved for such an amazing loan, but the dealer that was supposed to hold the car for my dealer sold it! I'm so pissed it's not even funny. This is the second time this has happened to me.
4 years ago I had a deposit down on a 6MT 2006 LS2 GTO and it was sold. There's another fully loaded Black Cherry 370Z available, but it's too far out and it'd have to be driven 650 miles. =(