M3 beats GT-R and Porsche turbo in C&D comparison test
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Originally Posted by pukiZ
C&D, as I recall in a comparison btwn 350Z RX-8 & Mustang the RX-8 won while the Z was deducted points for not having back seats/roomy trunk and interior.
Plus everyone @ C&D worshiped BMW.
Plus everyone @ C&D worshiped BMW.
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This is no shock really. It seems like most mags have a love affair with BMW. If you guys remember apporximately 20 years ago, they use to bash mainly American cars for poor performance specs. Then, when the Japanese & American cars started matching or exceeding the performance euro specs of cars like BMW, they claimed it was driving feel that made them superior. Now, even with much better performance specs, the BMW's still win these comparisions.
I think every magazine should have to post what cars the testers personally own and it would be nice if they posted the amount each car magazine spent in advertisement. My bet is more testers own G35's then 3 series BMW's etc. because they got to buy the car that is the best value for the dollar. The truth be known, many most likely own neither and are more likely to own a 2000 Civic and their wife drives a 2006 dodge minivan.
People that advertise in those magazines are not happy when a magazine slams their product. It appears to me that it is a win-win situation for the writers of C& D to show the Nissan out perform the BMW by specs while stating how nice the BMW feels to drive. In that way, the magazine saves face with both Nissan & BMW thus making both advertisers happy.
I could be wrong about this, just my 2 cents....
I think every magazine should have to post what cars the testers personally own and it would be nice if they posted the amount each car magazine spent in advertisement. My bet is more testers own G35's then 3 series BMW's etc. because they got to buy the car that is the best value for the dollar. The truth be known, many most likely own neither and are more likely to own a 2000 Civic and their wife drives a 2006 dodge minivan.
People that advertise in those magazines are not happy when a magazine slams their product. It appears to me that it is a win-win situation for the writers of C& D to show the Nissan out perform the BMW by specs while stating how nice the BMW feels to drive. In that way, the magazine saves face with both Nissan & BMW thus making both advertisers happy.
I could be wrong about this, just my 2 cents....
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Originally Posted by jehamilton_98
Originally Posted by jehamilton_98
True, it did have a Haltech ECU.
Quote:"This is our 100% stock R35 GTR in full trim and a full tank of pump fuel - the only modification made was the addition of the Haltech ECU, the full stock exhaust is still in place
Not a bad effort for the first time this car has been driven at the track. Next up - a 10 second pass"
Quote:"This is our 100% stock R35 GTR in full trim and a full tank of pump fuel - the only modification made was the addition of the Haltech ECU, the full stock exhaust is still in place
Not a bad effort for the first time this car has been driven at the track. Next up - a 10 second pass"
The "only" modification is a huge understatement for a turbo'd car, as that can give any boosted car massive power upgrades.
.
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Originally Posted by zland
This is no shock really. It seems like most mags have a love affair with BMW. If you guys remember apporximately 20 years ago, they use to bash mainly American cars for poor performance specs. Then, when the Japanese & American cars started matching or exceeding the performance euro specs of cars like BMW, they claimed it was driving feel that made them superior. Now, even with much better performance specs, the BMW's still win these comparisions.
I think every magazine should have to post what cars the testers personally own and it would be nice if they posted the amount each car magazine spent in advertisement. My bet is more testers own G35's then 3 series BMW's etc. because they got to buy the car that is the best value for the dollar. The truth be known, many most likely own neither and are more likely to own a 2000 Civic and their wife drives a 2006 dodge minivan.
People that advertise in those magazines are not happy when a magazine slams their product. It appears to me that it is a win-win situation for the writers of C& D to show the Nissan out perform the BMW by specs while stating how nice the BMW feels to drive. In that way, the magazine saves face with both Nissan & BMW thus making both advertisers happy.
I could be wrong about this, just my 2 cents....
I think every magazine should have to post what cars the testers personally own and it would be nice if they posted the amount each car magazine spent in advertisement. My bet is more testers own G35's then 3 series BMW's etc. because they got to buy the car that is the best value for the dollar. The truth be known, many most likely own neither and are more likely to own a 2000 Civic and their wife drives a 2006 dodge minivan.
People that advertise in those magazines are not happy when a magazine slams their product. It appears to me that it is a win-win situation for the writers of C& D to show the Nissan out perform the BMW by specs while stating how nice the BMW feels to drive. In that way, the magazine saves face with both Nissan & BMW thus making both advertisers happy.
I could be wrong about this, just my 2 cents....
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Originally Posted by zland
People that advertise in those magazines are not happy when a magazine slams their product. It appears to me that it is a win-win situation for the writers of C& D to show the Nissan out perform the BMW by specs while stating how nice the BMW feels to drive. In that way, the magazine saves face with both Nissan & BMW thus making both advertisers happy.
I could be wrong about this, just my 2 cents....
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Originally Posted by Alberto
LMAO!
Violin plays in background for GTR nuthuggers...
BTW-even funnier is the 12.1 @ 115mph 1/4 time. I believe most preproduction crazy #'s were obviously massaged to impress. I have yet to see a production GTR trap over 120mph.
Violin plays in background for GTR nuthuggers...
BTW-even funnier is the 12.1 @ 115mph 1/4 time. I believe most preproduction crazy #'s were obviously massaged to impress. I have yet to see a production GTR trap over 120mph.
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And you obviously don't have a clue why.
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C&D sucks BMW's d*** on a regular basis. I could have told you the result long before reading the article.
It's getting pretty silly these days.
Bottom line: Those three cars are different enough that a magazine wouldn't sway my opinion. The M3 isn't even in the same league...at some point either you want AWD or you don't.
Back seat comfort? I mean, really? There's points for that ****? I guess that means the M3 4 door would score even HIGHER!
It's getting pretty silly these days.
Bottom line: Those three cars are different enough that a magazine wouldn't sway my opinion. The M3 isn't even in the same league...at some point either you want AWD or you don't.
Back seat comfort? I mean, really? There's points for that ****? I guess that means the M3 4 door would score even HIGHER!
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m3's are f*ckin nice.. without a doubt.. i love bmw.. and lets not compare the GTR just for us nissan biased people...
but M3 > 911 Turbo????!
![ugh2](https://my350z.com/forum/images/smilies/ugh2.gif)
Scoring shouldve been reversed if anything..
1- 911
2- GTR
3- M3
Fail...
but M3 > 911 Turbo????!
![thinking](https://my350z.com/forum/images/smilies/thinker.gif)
![ugh2](https://my350z.com/forum/images/smilies/ugh2.gif)
Scoring shouldve been reversed if anything..
1- 911
2- GTR
3- M3
Fail...
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Originally Posted by itsjiggajames
m3's are f*ckin nice.. without a doubt.. i love bmw.. and lets not compare the GTR just for us nissan biased people...
but M3 > 911 Turbo????!
![ugh2](https://my350z.com/forum/images/smilies/ugh2.gif)
Scoring shouldve been reversed if anything..
1- 911
2- GTR
3- M3
Fail...
but M3 > 911 Turbo????!
![thinking](https://my350z.com/forum/images/smilies/thinker.gif)
![ugh2](https://my350z.com/forum/images/smilies/ugh2.gif)
Scoring shouldve been reversed if anything..
1- 911
2- GTR
3- M3
Fail...
#33
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Originally Posted by itsjiggajames
m3's are f*ckin nice.. without a doubt.. i love bmw.. and lets not compare the GTR just for us nissan biased people...
but M3 > 911 Turbo????!
![ugh2](https://my350z.com/forum/images/smilies/ugh2.gif)
Scoring shouldve been reversed if anything..
1- 911
2- GTR
3- M3
Fail...
but M3 > 911 Turbo????!
![thinking](https://my350z.com/forum/images/smilies/thinker.gif)
![ugh2](https://my350z.com/forum/images/smilies/ugh2.gif)
Scoring shouldve been reversed if anything..
1- 911
2- GTR
3- M3
Fail...
#34
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The GTR is a great car but speed isn't everything. Fact is, C&D just found the M3 to be a better all-around car than the GTR. Even if you take away the whole portion that scores the interior, comfort, and fit-and-finish, the BMW still wins on ride quality and being funner to drive. I was honestly surprised that the 911 was that far behind in the scoring more than the fact that the M3 beat the GTR. I suppose being nearly double the price and having a tiny interior doesn't win comparison tests.
One stat that really popped out at me was the 30-50 acceleration. The M3 was 2 seconds faster than the GTR with a 7.7 second time. The 911 had a 9.0 second time. The M3 was also 0.1 seconds faster from 50-70. Granted all of this is top gear acceleration, and who's in 6th when trying to accelerate from 30 or 50?
I don't doubt that these magazines have their bias, but BMW has proven to be consistent at putting great cars on the road. Nissan is still catching up in that regard and if the GTR is any indication, they're catching up fast.
One stat that really popped out at me was the 30-50 acceleration. The M3 was 2 seconds faster than the GTR with a 7.7 second time. The 911 had a 9.0 second time. The M3 was also 0.1 seconds faster from 50-70. Granted all of this is top gear acceleration, and who's in 6th when trying to accelerate from 30 or 50?
I don't doubt that these magazines have their bias, but BMW has proven to be consistent at putting great cars on the road. Nissan is still catching up in that regard and if the GTR is any indication, they're catching up fast.
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Originally Posted by zland
This is no shock really. It seems like most mags have a love affair with BMW. If you guys remember apporximately 20 years ago, they use to bash mainly American cars for poor performance specs. Then, when the Japanese & American cars started matching or exceeding the performance euro specs of cars like BMW, they claimed it was driving feel that made them superior. Now, even with much better performance specs, the BMW's still win these comparisions.
I think every magazine should have to post what cars the testers personally own and it would be nice if they posted the amount each car magazine spent in advertisement. My bet is more testers own G35's then 3 series BMW's etc. because they got to buy the car that is the best value for the dollar. The truth be known, many most likely own neither and are more likely to own a 2000 Civic and their wife drives a 2006 dodge minivan.
People that advertise in those magazines are not happy when a magazine slams their product. It appears to me that it is a win-win situation for the writers of C& D to show the Nissan out perform the BMW by specs while stating how nice the BMW feels to drive. In that way, the magazine saves face with both Nissan & BMW thus making both advertisers happy.
I could be wrong about this, just my 2 cents....
I think every magazine should have to post what cars the testers personally own and it would be nice if they posted the amount each car magazine spent in advertisement. My bet is more testers own G35's then 3 series BMW's etc. because they got to buy the car that is the best value for the dollar. The truth be known, many most likely own neither and are more likely to own a 2000 Civic and their wife drives a 2006 dodge minivan.
People that advertise in those magazines are not happy when a magazine slams their product. It appears to me that it is a win-win situation for the writers of C& D to show the Nissan out perform the BMW by specs while stating how nice the BMW feels to drive. In that way, the magazine saves face with both Nissan & BMW thus making both advertisers happy.
I could be wrong about this, just my 2 cents....
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#36
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Originally Posted by Augustus
The GTR is a great car but speed isn't everything. Fact is, C&D just found the M3 to be a better all-around car than the GTR. Even if you take away the whole portion that scores the interior, comfort, and fit-and-finish, the BMW still wins on ride quality and being funner to drive. I was honestly surprised that the 911 was that far behind in the scoring more than the fact that the M3 beat the GTR. I suppose being nearly double the price and having a tiny interior doesn't win comparison tests.
One stat that really popped out at me was the 30-50 acceleration. The M3 was 2 seconds faster than the GTR with a 7.7 second time. The 911 had a 9.0 second time. The M3 was also 0.1 seconds faster from 50-70. Granted all of this is top gear acceleration, and who's in 6th when trying to accelerate from 30 or 50?
I don't doubt that these magazines have their bias, but BMW has proven to be consistent at putting great cars on the road. Nissan is still catching up in that regard and if the GTR is any indication, they're catching up fast.
One stat that really popped out at me was the 30-50 acceleration. The M3 was 2 seconds faster than the GTR with a 7.7 second time. The 911 had a 9.0 second time. The M3 was also 0.1 seconds faster from 50-70. Granted all of this is top gear acceleration, and who's in 6th when trying to accelerate from 30 or 50?
I don't doubt that these magazines have their bias, but BMW has proven to be consistent at putting great cars on the road. Nissan is still catching up in that regard and if the GTR is any indication, they're catching up fast.
but other than that comment I felt the need to make, if you squint hard you can see that the M3 is gear limited to 160 while the Porsche and GTR are both electronically limited to 189 and 190 (or thereabouts). the NA instant hit and much higher gearing obviously gave it the advantage there.
I wonder what cruising speeds are in those cars @ 60mph.
and honestly, from everything I have seen on the M3, BMW lost it with this model (and it's ugly as sin).
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Originally Posted by areddy
Actually it should be GT-R, Turbo, M3. The GT-R is by far a better performing car than the 911 Turbo.
.
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Originally Posted by Alberto
LMAO!
Violin plays in background for GTR nuthuggers...
BTW-even funnier is the 12.1 @ 115mph 1/4 time. I believe most preproduction crazy #'s were obviously massaged to impress. I have yet to see a production GTR trap over 120mph.
Violin plays in background for GTR nuthuggers...
BTW-even funnier is the 12.1 @ 115mph 1/4 time. I believe most preproduction crazy #'s were obviously massaged to impress. I have yet to see a production GTR trap over 120mph.
#39
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Originally Posted by Motormouth
(terrible post)
but other than that comment I felt the need to make, if you squint hard you can see that the M3 is gear limited to 160 while the Porsche and GTR are both electronically limited to 189 and 190 (or thereabouts). the NA instant hit and much higher gearing obviously gave it the advantage there.
I wonder what cruising speeds are in those cars @ 60mph.
and honestly, from everything I have seen on the M3, BMW lost it with this model (and it's ugly as sin).
but other than that comment I felt the need to make, if you squint hard you can see that the M3 is gear limited to 160 while the Porsche and GTR are both electronically limited to 189 and 190 (or thereabouts). the NA instant hit and much higher gearing obviously gave it the advantage there.
I wonder what cruising speeds are in those cars @ 60mph.
and honestly, from everything I have seen on the M3, BMW lost it with this model (and it's ugly as sin).
The top gear acceleration times are likely due to the fact that turbo cars aren't making great power when in 6th gear at 30 mph.
RPMs @ 60mph for each car are probably around 2650 for the M3, 2200 for the GTR, and 2150 for the 911, based on the MPH/1000rpm chart on page 62.
I agree the the M3 has been going in the wrong direction for most of us, but it's probably working out for BMW. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they sold more E36s than E30s, more E46s than E36s, and that they'll sell more E92s than E46s.
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All three cars pretty much have their own strengths and weaknesses, not to mention different personalities entirely to me, so IMO it would be a matter of personal preference. Given the choice I'd take the GTR or the M3.