hey, question

im planning on dynamatting the doors,

once the door trim is removed,
the other trim that you need to get to **the electric window trim**

is there any problems taking that off...

i dont want any of my electric window parts coming off in the process...

so all i want to know is, are there any issues or anything i need to be carefull of when i take that 2nd trim off?

thanks

 

You mean you want to get behind the inner panel to Dynamat the outer door skin? Are you sure you want to do that? I used Dynamat Extreme on the inner panel and about 2 sq ft directly behind the speaker magnet on the outer panel. Also, you may want to consider less mat (30- 50%) and do the rest with liquid. It is easier IMO to get to stick in the weird gooves and curves of the panels.

 

yeah that is the panel i am talking about

i havnt really thought about it, i just want to make my zed a bit quieter, its a bit noisy atm

did you notice much differance with road noise when you did the doors...
i think the main problem in the boot.. i have almost got that sorted... about 60% done

 

I'd agree with you here. I stripped the entire interior and covered the whole thing from the doors all the way back. It made very little difference in road noise. It deadened the car tremendously so there is no resonance from bass, but it did very little for road noise.

The most noise does indeed seem to be coming from behind. I think it's the rear wheel wells.

 

im still driving on my stock tyres
im not sure how much road noise will be because of them
when the time comes i'll do some shopping,

untill then yes i agree most noise comes from the boot

even the smallest stones/sand flicking up is really noticable and annoying

part b of the dynamatting is for my stereo
so if road noise wasnt that noticable, at least it will be good for stereo

i no longer have my spare rim, and am in the process of trying to deaden the boot with

*MDF, carpet, & foam* no dynamat yet...., and just in this, there is a noticeable differance... not much, but you can tell its better

i have made a new false floor out of 6mm mdf some black audio carpet ** not that crappy cardboad floor**
put carpet on both sides

also on the floor of the tyre well, i have done the same mdf with carpet on each sides

some acoustic foam is going in tomorrow, just have it sitting where the spare wheel should be

just having the 6mm mdf floor is an improvement from the cardboad one, and alot stronger

 

guys, I went the Dynamat Extreme route when I first got the car. I was concerned about adding any weight to my new ride so I only put in about 50 sq ft. Did a wonderful job stopping rattles and buzzes from my new audio system at that time which has a 12" sub, but did little-to-nothing to stop the deafening road noise. I ride the 15S to work and there was so much tire humm before I couldn't here the cell-phone or bass from the stereo.

I got big results by re-doing the sound deadening project, this time concentrating on products designed to stop/absorb road noise -- not just vibrations. I stripped out the entire car -- carpet, seats, all panels, etc. and applied 3 gallons of liquid Spectrum 2 from Seconskinaudio to the entire inside and wheel wells. On top of that I used a combination of foam types that differed in density, open/closed cell properties, and thickness. I used 3M #90 spray adhesive to affix the foam in layers depending on how much space I had between areas of the carpet and panels.

Some of the products I used inside were:
Dynamat Extreme 50sft ~22 lb
Spectrum II 3 gls ~21 lbs dry
Dynamat Dynaliner 1 pk 1 lb
Dynamat Tac-Mat 1 pk 2 lb
Secondskin Overkill 3 pk 3 lb
E-bay Vibramat 1 pk 2 lb
TOTAL ~50 lb

Viobramat worked best in the trunk surrounding the 12" sub box and in the recesses of the hood to quiet noise penetrating the windshield. I stuffed any panel that had the space with foams (kicks, side panels behind driver/passenger, and especially cubby area and trunk). You would be surprised how much noise actually comes from cubby area (take it apart and check out the gaping hole around the seat belt harness and outside of the speaker). Wheel wells were most noticable area of improvement too. I used waterproof vibramat behind plastic panels in the front wells.

Some of those rock pings you here may be coming from the thin metal gas tanks that hang below the cubby area. May need to coat them with liquid to properly quite that... Spectrum II is great, it goes on with a brush, has no odor and dries quickly to a flat black finish. Also lining the cubby helps remove the hiss noise from the fuel pumps. You will be happy going the foam route! just use multiple layers -- If you have the space use the combination of Dynamat -- Spectrum II on top -- open/closed cell foam over that -- then a closed cell foam on top. You will only be able to do this in trunk, cubby, and maybe a few panel areas because of space but This will trap and absorb most of the noise.

 

I actually used a product called Brown Bread which I picked up on Ebay. It was recommended by a lot of folks on the hardcore car audio forums, and it's much cheaper than Dynamat Extreme, which it is a competitor of.

It's also good to know that you had success with the wheel wells and cubby holes. Those were indeed the two areas I figured were the worst. I might consider just sticking some noise reduction foam on top of the Brown Bread. There's no way I scan strip that stuff off, though.

 

Joe you did well with the Brown Bread, I wouldn't ever suggest scraping it off. After all this work on soundproofing my feeling is that any dampening mat (Edead, Fatmat, Brownbread, Secondskin, etc.) is good as a first step directly on the metal panels. But only in moderation.

They all reduce struct vibrations/rattles and some noise. But it is over-kill to put it on in double or triple layers because of the weight and its inablility to block or absorb certain frequency ranges (tire noise).

As a test try taking out the glove box and cubby paneling and lining the interior with a layer of closed cell neoprene, then a layer of open/closed cell foam, and finally a top layer of neoprene. Will only add about 2 or 3 lbs of weight but the difference will be significant. And It can all be easily stripped out if you don't like it.

 

Oh one more thing, all of this talk about how loud the car is inside is very subjective and hard to qualify wiuthout high-end sound processing test equipment. Perceived noise has a lot to do with other factors like the road your travelling on, other vehicles in the vacinity, weather conditions, driving speed, stereo volume, etc. It is hard to say exactly how much quieter it is with any accuracy after doing any upgrade.
But having said that, I can remember having a hard time hearing anyone on my cell phone when I was running with Dynamat only. On my ride in to work this morning I could actually hear myself when I whispered, which to me is a massive improvement.

 

That's one of my main tests, too. In the car's stock form, my cell phone was virtually useless on the freeway, especially the louder pavement types. With the Brown Bread, it's maybe a bit better but not much. I have a special noise cancelling phone headset I use in my car which helps tremendously. I'd love to knock some more noise out, especially on road trips. For what it's worth, my decibel meter (set to A weighting) currently shows about 72 dB on the quiet roads, and up to 76 dB on the loud roads.

Can you tell me some places I might find the various sound deadening materials/foams you mentioned? Any special types, brands, etc, to look for? Oh, and just to clarify, the panel covering the cubby behind the driver just pops off, correct?

 

wow

that is insain

thanks for all the info..

i too am now going to invest some time and $$ in some differant products and do it properly



jreiter how do you find the brown bread stuff
i have seen that too, and is a lot cheaper that dynamat

 

if your talking about the subwoofer cover ?? yes

 

WhiteZ has the ticket. That cover is so thin and flimsy. You can put a plastic spreader in there to pop it out the first time and after a while it will come out with more ease.

So anyway, yeah pop off that cover and look at the seat belt mechanism. The wide hole around it opens up in to the rear quarter panel and wheel well. The only thing stopping noise from emenating from there is the flimsy sub woofer panel.

From the front of the car back here's what I used:

- Front wheel wells: Coated outside with about 6 thick layers of Spectrum II from Secondskin Audio. Also removed the plastic cover pieces and coated the back with Spectrum and a layer of Vibramat (availble at www.exciters.com).

- Front fenders: with the wheel well plastic off I also coated the lower half of the inner fender with Spectrum II and the MORE inner firewall behind the fender with Spectrum. I used paper to make a cutout of the open area between the door front and the fender (The spot you see leading into the fender when you have the door open). I glued a couple layers of 1/8" neoprene (Ebay or Secondskin) together and squeezed it in this spot to make a barrier.

Kick Panels: 1 layer Dynamat Extreme with many coats of Spectrum over it. Then took some time to cover the gaping holes (especially on passenger side) with Neoprene. Once done I made a cutout of Dynaliner with a layer of Neoprene glued to it and placed it between the plastic panels and metal.

Floor: About 30% Dynamat Extreme coverage, mostly in front covering lower part of firewall, in back along the vertical surface, and along the side near door jamb bottom. A lot of coats of Spectrum II over this getting as high up behind the white jute padding of the firewall as I could. Once dry, I covered the whole thing with a layer of Neoprene. I also made neoprene cutouts and glued them to the back of the stock carpet in spots where it had no jute padding. There are three recessed wells on each side that I decided to fill in a little. The one under the seat and behind it I put in a layer of Dynaliner, the one in front of the seats I used Dynamat Tacmat which is thinner and less springy. I also concentrated on covering up all non functional holes. Along the door bottom I used a couple more pieces of Dynaliner between the carpet and the vertical wall below the door.

Doors: About 40% Dynamat Extreme, then many coats of Spectrum. In the outer door skin I added to the stock matting by using a couple feet of Extreme. I covered the whole thing with Neoprene and added some more neoprene cutouts to the back side of the plastic door panel (mostly front areas).

Cubby area: About 80% Dynamat, expecially on wells. Then many coats of Spectrum II. Covered the whole thing in Nepoprene. Along the back wall, area near side wall, and tranny hump I used some pieces of Tacmat glued down, and along the vertical wall where the belt attaches I used Dynaliner. I used more neoprene layers over thesed foams to seal it all and then I used a piece of Virbamat to completely cover the inner wheel well curve.

Side and rear paneling: About 30% Dynamat Extreme and some Spectrum where it wasn't too messy. coated inside of panels with Spectrum II and used Dynaliner and neoprene where I could to fill in the space between plastic panel and metal frame.
Rear tire well inside completely covered in Extreme and Spectrum II.

Tire well: Extreme, Vibramat layer and Neoprene on top.

Inner rear well: Spectrum II many layers.


You can get all of the Dynamat products on Ebay. Other company's make competing products that are cheaper so check them out too. There's a company on Ebay that specializes in foams. Get the Neoprene (closed cell) here in 1/8" and 1/4" sizes. Secondskin makes some good foams too, they have a product called Overkill that is 1/8" closed cell and another called rattle-pad that is 1/4" open/closed. Vibramat is hard to find. Occassionally it is on Ebay. It also works well makinf cutouts to fill in the recesses under the hood, I did this and it helped with noise coming through the windscreen. I didn't find many competing products as good as Dynaliner and Tacmat. I would recommend getting just one roll of each as you don't need much. Dynaliner is a bit thik (1/2") so you will find you can't even use it in many spots.

advice: Try using multiple techniques and layers one on top of another. None of the products seem to do a very good job by themselves (except maybe Vibramat but it is kinda heavy). Think of it like blankets on a cold night. You need a few and different density types to stay warm. You want to use matting to cancel vibrations, closed cell foams to block sound waves, open/closed cell foams to absorb sound waves, and a top layer of closed cell to block again. Also, concentrate on areas where the noise originates. In our case this is the lower part of the tire where it meets the road. Wheel wells, front firewall, cubby area very important. Then lower half of door, floor, and trunk next but still imprtant. If you do all that there are still a few other spots but jarder to get to like the rear bumper area. use paper and a sharpie to make cutouts before cutting product. Good luck!

 

WhiteZ, are you in Australia right now? My company has many offices over there in Regent's Park, Cavan, Orange NSW, Dolby, and Charter's Towers. I will be going over with workmates a few times this year, maybe I can bring some foams and help you out!!!! ;-)

 

Good info, thanks! I've already added enough weight with my rear amp/sub install, so I'm going to try and keep the insulation weight to a minimum. I'll definitely start with the cubby area and go from there.

 

Cool..foam is really light. I put a lot of various foam in mine and I think all together it stil weighed less than 10 lbs of foam. A 6 foot roll of neoprene for instance only weighs 1 pound.

 

excellant info thanks heaps
deffinatly more than i would have thought anyone would have done to keep there zed quiet.

you get to come to Aus a few times this year?? sounds good

i live on the west coast, which is nowhere near any of those places, i have no idea where dolby is though ...

foam sounds good too, those damn fuel pumps

Spectrum is on the way too, that sound like a good thing to do...

 

I was talking to one of the Aussie employees who's over here for a month and he showed me how far Perth is from where we have the offices..wow! Like being on opposite sides of the U.S.

Anyway, good luck with the Spectrum. I did my project before Secondskin had the new Spectrum III. Version II required about 5 or more coats to get it the right thickness, the new one only requires one. But I still think Ver II might be better in the tighter spots or vertical surfaces where you want to control exactly how much to put on. Version II I would guess would be better for seeping into the wrinkles of the Dynamat Extreme layer too. See if you can get a couple gals of Ver II and Ver III.