Spike100

^^ That's what my opinion was; but Chris and some of the other respondents are making some good points. I'll try to put some type of summary together here. Hang on a little longer.. more infor to follow --Spike

bb1314

iTrader: (62)

SOmething like this is really worth the investment...

http://onlyumpc.com/news/infill-drive-with-the-umpc

Spike100

^^ Great display of graphics and text. No way can a NTSC/PAL screen connected via composite video come close to this. --Spike

Spike100

Hey guys… Looks as though this thread is gasping for its last breath… Time for closure… Obviously some want proprietary systems for simple builds insuring compatibility and reliability, and others want the ability to mix and match components for “limitless” expansion.

Thanks for the very good responses you are putting on this thread. Obviously I have been considering this. I have been playing the devil’s advocate hoping to receive information and responses (which you guys are providing, and good ones at that). Here are some good arguments I see made by the respondents:

CarPC’s are scaleable.
My response to bb1314 where I say my navigation solution was only $700 is true for what I have now, but in reality this is the third navigation system I installed in my Z. So the actual cost is probably more like $2K (probably more for me but I hate admitting it). I install a device (e.g., a navigation product) either get bored with it or see a new product that is better, tear out the old, buy the new, and do yet another install. If I had spent this much on a basic CarPC, I would have something that I could continue building upon instead of scrapping an entire system for a replacement.

CarPC’s are “open-architecture” systems.
I will use navigation products as an example here since that is what I am most familiar with. I do believe that the “packaged” navigation systems for cars (some examples are Alpine, Kenwood, and Garmin) are really good and very suitable for someone who wants a reliable match of components from a single manufacturer. It is even easier when using the double-din all-in-one devices. But, these systems are proprietary, and they do not allow much customization. The problem is enhancing any system like this. It is nearly impossible. Apparently this is not a problem with a CarPC since this environment allows selecting various hardware components and software that a user can optimize to meet their requirements. If you want something different (and you have a CarPC), you can do it.

CarPC’s provide more options for video display.
Here I mean better display for text and graphics. That is probably not significant for playing DVD’s, but a real advantage when running applications that benefit when the display allows very precise screen detail using the best video connection that is only available in a computer environment. Navigation products for PC’s do this (very detailed display with terrific graphics and text).

Well crap... Now I’m convinced… and I just installed a new proprietary navigation system. I am going to live with this for at least 9 months (my usual “replacement cycle”). After that, who knows?

--Spike

DIGItonium

iTrader: (1)

CarPCs is pretty much for the hobbyist and computer enthusiast. It is not as perfect or completely practical as a typical head unit, but it is a fun project to make your audio/video system unique to the typical head units.

I want to build a CarPC just because it's fun building computers and modding the components like the sound card (Burr Brown op amps).

Depending on the way the '08 G coupe is designed, it will make or break my plans for a CarPC because the '07 sedan comes standard with a 7" display for vehicle information and what not. I was hoping to hack up the buttons to control the computer and use my own 7" LCD for the PC only.

You can view my thread here:http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/show...385#post932385

Spike100

^^ Great post… you explain the concept clearly and concisely, and explain the advantages and disadvantages in just a few words. Nice.

I am “hooked.” I read your thread on mp3car.com (very interesting and informative), and a lot of others (Chris has put up some good stuff as well). I realize it is going to take a lot of effort to just do the research. The “newbie” section on mp3car.com is a great place to get started and learn.

If you are still reading this thread, I have a question.

My question:
The dedicated navigation systems (examples are Alpine, Garmin, Kenwood, and others) use a composite video (or s-video) connection to a LCD supporting NTSC/PAL. I guess they do this because it is inexpensive and fairly universal, and provides support for input from a variety of DVD players and other devices. The problem I see happens when these systems display fine static detail (maps, text, etc.). Computers use a different connection-architecture for video, and they seem to provide far better detail when displaying static graphics and text.

Am I just “seeing ghosts,” or do computers (in this case, CarPC’s) have the ability to display static images (graphics and text) better than NTSC displays?

I think the answer is YES, but not sure. I’m afraid this might be a stupid question on which I need to do more research. …never really thought about it until now.
--Spike

azula

iTrader: (12)

are these released. i would be really interested in a carpc if i could get one prebuilt...

DIGItonium

iTrader: (1)

Hey Spike,

RGB contains discrete analog components, so it has a much higher bandwidth than composite signals. This allows the source to display a higher quality image down to the individual pixel.

You can get decent quality displaying computer images using s-video to the LCD input, but you'll need to tweak the display settings (e.g., font size) to make text readable. You'll have no problem displaying DVD movies

As for viewing GPS, you may be able to view the details to some extent assuming the software handles lower resolution screens well. Some programs assume a higher minimum resolution so some of the text does not scale well (mouse-over text balloons... doh!). I have not used GPS software, so I cannot chime in on this one.

If you get a head unit with touchscreen and video input (for the PC), the touchscreen is useless on the PC side.

The hardware end is easy, but the goal is to build a low power system. A CarPC can eat up as much juice as a typical small amplifier at full load. You'll want a fast hard drive for quicker system response, but environmental conditions will limit it's use. You can get a CF adapter to install XP, but you'lll need to find the right CF card for it to work. Lastly, just get a solid sate drive haha!

-Phuong

bb1314

iTrader: (62)

I have another thread asking about the Infill T3 which is a flip out screen double DIN carPC. That's available in the US. However, I like the D4 which is a static double DIN screen.. but it's not available in the US yet. Some people are talking about order it from Korea and put Streetdeck on it. I don't want to be the genie pig here since it's still a $2000 unit (if you convert from Korean currency to USD) not including shipping. Here's the thread btw...

https://my350z.com/forum/audio-and-video/249243-infill-t3-powered-by-streetdeck.html

bb1314

iTrader: (62)

Since we have some experts here. Let me ask you guys a question. I can see how a carPC can do bluetooth, navigation, DVD, mp3, all those stuff that since that's what a regular laptop can do. But how can a car PC or even a regular all-in-on nav unit measure car speed and other diagnostic information? I'm really curious to get some info on those since I'm the type that... more feature the merrier!

BhashaZ

iTrader: (18)

Nav receiver can track your speed/altitude via GPS. Other diagnostic info can be gathered using an OBD-II device such as the Elmscan: http://store.mp3car.com/ProductDetai...Code=COM%2D039

Spike100

If I understand the question: When you connect a GPS receiver/device to a laptop or any computer for that matter (my only experience with a PC is using a laptop with mapping software on a sailboat) with a software application that connects the GPS device to a mapping database (my setup used the NAVTEQ database), the software updates your position once every second. After just a few seconds, the system is calibrated, and it can report your position and speed very accurately. It makes no difference if you are in an airplane, boat, or car.

I mention the PC because that was in your question, but it would make no difference if it is a PC equipped with a GPS receiver and software, or a proprietary system (e.g., Alpine, Garmin, etc.). Any of these (including the all-in-one devices) reads the GPS position once every second and returns very accurate speed-data. With a GPS, you know your speed with less than 0.1 percent variance.

--Spike

Spike100

Phuong,

Your write-up/posting on mp3car.com is about the best I’ve seen there (lots of detail, good drawings and photos, excellent explanations, etc.) After reading your stuff, I am starting “to get it.”

I am a little embarrassed that I have been writing software for 25+ years and never considered the video output. I have always simply used a C/C++ library that handled RGB video and never really looked at or understood NTSC. Well-written PC applications allow the user to select fonts and size. As you point out, that is not always an option on NTSC displays. Proprietary software/hardware devices (such as navigation products from Alpine and Garmin) provide a limited selection that works best with the output they provide to the user. These dedicated software/hardware systems are designed to run on NTSC displays where it is best for the programmer to select a single font and allow the user to select font size.

Thanks… I think I am beginning to understand.

--Spike

DIGItonium

iTrader: (1)

Spike,

Thanks for the compliments. I'm a CarPC noob, too, but I'm an avid hardware and computer builder (hobby). On the software end, I'm more lazy.

Anyhow, I thought about the front ends that people are using. I decided (on a low resolution screen) to use the desktop, set it to single click mode, get some higher quality (better resolution) icons, and then increase the size of my icons. So all I need to do is "touch" the icon to launch the desired program. It'll save memory and time :-)

It looks like you've handled computers long enough... just build one. It's fun! You can look up the hardware I have on my list. The CPU I have is a tad overkill, but it's a very nice 25W processor. I'm waiting for a BIOS update in hopes to have SmartFan and PowerNow (lowers clock and voltage on the fly) working.

I use nLite to strip XP to the bare minimum for my needs. It seems to work fine with SP1. SP2 bloats XP and delays boot time further.

For GPS, I might get the Garmin GPS-18 since I can get a discount on it. I don't know how much disk space is required. I managed to get XP, drivers, iTunes, PowerDVD, MAME and some games to fill less than 80% of a 1GB card. :-)

Dave 90TT

iTrader: (4)

OBDII plugin's. There are generic ones, such as the ELMScan mentioned, but there is also Cipher (www.cipher.com) specifically designed for Z/G's and other Nissans. It actually interfaces with the CAN bus, and can do a large amount of things. I don't personnally have it on my CarPC because I have a seperate OBDII display that I like, but if I didn't have that, I would jump on Cipher in a heartbeat.

As for CarPC's in general, they are not for everyone, but for me, a computer enthusiast, a car enthusiast, and a tinkerer, I love it! Check out the links in my sig for my setup, although I've since gone to a different, more powerful PC for my G.

Also, I think DIGI asked about carPC's in the 08 G coupe; I recently bought a 07 G35x sedan for my wife, and I looked through it, and looked behind the dash a bit. There is no way possible to put a carPC in it and rtetain the rest of the function of the dash. The sound system, navi system, climate control, and vehicle information system are so completely intgretaed, it owuld be near impossible. However, it does have many of the functions of a carPC: navi, 10 gB harddrive for mp3's, etc...

Dave

Mikey-Z

iTrader: (2)

Be it cool/nerd factor, functionality, bang-for-buck, there's lots of ups with not much downsides.

Reliability might be slightly below head units, but head unit breaks and you have to send it out. Comp breaks and with little troubleshooting skills you can fix it yourself.

that being said, OBD, HD space for mp3/vid & the nav function is it's main appeal. I can definitely see someone with a small mp3 collection (or ipod adapter) with stock nav to not have much of a use for it.

if you're capable with computers &/or installs, it's easy enough to do in a Z that it's hard to pass up.

Worse case scenario is that if you hate it, buy an avic or something, take the pc out, plug in a tv card and use it as a PVR/DVR or HTPC system.