SQBassHead

iTrader: (37)

Alright guys i know this is my first post but unlike other people i know how to search and find my answer. plus i did search before posting, but im still confused.

My Setup

HU- ALPINE W505

INTERIOR-
front-JL AUDIO ZR650-CSI
rear-JL AUDIO C5-650x

AMPS- ALPINE PDX 4.150 and ALPINE PDX 4.1000

I also have a AUDIO CONTROL EPICENTER.

SUBS- here is where the problem is
ok when i first got my z i purchased a JL AUDIO STEALTH BOX with 2 10w3, but i wasnt happy and i had to have more bass. So i purchased 2 10w6v2 to swap with the W3 in the STEALTH BOX, it was much better. But i still wasnt happy ( i guess i was expecting to much ) Anyways i decided to take the W6 out and put in my Orion HCCA 12"(that i had in my gf car) in my Z. i know its an spl sub and it is completely different. but it did hit lower bass. i still am not happy i want to FEEL THE BASS NOT HEAR IT!

to sum it all up. i want MORE BASS but not that dirty bass you hear i want it to sound good (i want sql). idc about being heard a mile away but i dont mind it as long as it sounds GOOD in the inside..lol... i dont know what to do? can i ever be satisfied? i read alot of threads where ppl are happy with there system and it just gets me angry (not trying to hate but i want the same feeling ). I want to be able to turn my audio up and jiggle my throat while its giving me a back massage.


Any feed back is apreciated. im tired of spending money and not being satisfied. ive poured alot of money in my z audio and i really dont want to spend more(bc im saving for my TURBO ) but honestly if its worth it ill spend my money. i hate to leave a project not finished. PLEASE HELP ME BEFORE I JUST TAKE OUT MY SUBS AND SELL THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!! but i dont want to ...lol... FYI Stealth box w/w3s are in my closet and so are the w6s there just collecting dust with my orion amp for the HCCA.

SORRY FOR THE LONG POST BUT I WANTED TO COVER EVERYTHING.
p.s. if you know of any good audio shops in so.cal(562) let me know.

duro78

iTrader: (6)

your 2 10w6 should hit harder than that 1 12 considering your moving more air(cone area)I have the same setup wired at 1 ohm and 1100 watts pushing it hits harrrrd.(flexes my quarter panel and roof). That impresses kids and spl guys more so annoying to me. Yes that hcca will be able to get a lil lower. Did you have the reccomended airspace for them? What were they wired to? Wired properly power and ground. Systems are like hp always want more. 10w6 offer the best of both worlds spl and more so sq. Get yourself some DD, rd lodgics, FI's, mmats are lethal injections. You'll need another amp though and an upraded electrical to properly push those.But then again you'll have to switch to ported and the z doesnt have enough space to support a box that big unless you wanna reconfigure things

duro78

iTrader: (6)

stay away from audio shops and do the work yourself. Just check out any car audio forum theres more than enough info to help you. shops over charge and most arent knowledgeable about the internet subs they just want to push jl, rockford and kicker or whats on their shelves and sell you bs capacitors. most dont even know what the big three is.

StreetOC192

iTrader: (7)

Where is Travis when you need him? I haven't seen him around here in a while.....

Anyway,
What is the volume of the box?
How much power are you sending to the sub and at what load?
What are the xovers set at?

rtiid22

Dude, I know first hand that 2 - 10w6v2 in a stealthbox work with a spacer, and it feels really strong, in or outside the car.. something is wrong in your system. btw, I feel my bass, not so much hear it just how you want it.

Go to your amp, set the low pass filter to around 70 hz, turn bass boost off if it's on, set your headunit's bass level and subwoofer level to 0, your headunit's volume to 3/4 and then adjust the gain yourself, if you don't have a voltmeter than be careful adjusting the gain.. try to stay under half way

If you're hearing a lot of vibration then it's your stealthbox bumping the rear strut bar. You'll need to loosen up the stealthbox and put some fat mat inbetween it and the bar.

I hope this helps.. those subs hit pritty damn hard!

Paul350Z

iTrader: (1)

You're looking for sub-sonic response so look to build a system with response down to 13-16 Hz. Amplitude and frequency response are different physical characteristics with no correlation between the two. Like the color and speed of a car (though my little brother use to insist that red cars were fastest).

Depending on the music, recording, and even the playback device you may not be getting sub-sonic material. None of my music has any sub-sonic material as I listen to music recorded from the 1960s to the 1980s with a bit beyond that. Rock-n-roll doesn't have anything below about 25-30 Hz - kick drums nor the tightest bass guitar. An MP3 ain't gonna cut it as they roll off the highs and the lows (sounds like Bose!) so you'll need an UNCOMPRESSED format like a normal CD source.

My home theater runs a pair of now discontinued SVS PB12 plus/2 subwoofers driven by big amplifier. I rarely use more than 20-50 watts because they have the ability to shake the walls of the house bad enough to vibrate things off of shelves and move the pictures hanging on the walls. The finest remastered CDs don't cause the system to come alive - but there are plenty of newer movies that will shake the very foundation.

Subwoofer performance is not voodoo - its science, pure and simple. The right speaker coupled to a matched box produces a specific response. Science!

http://www.carstereo.com/help/Articles.cfm?id=26

What you're aiming for is an F3 response as low as possible with as much amplitude so a Qtc of 0.707 is what you ought to aim for to start with. You can bump the bass response amplitude (make it boomy) by sacrificing accuracy with a higher Qtc caused by a smaller box volume.

I recommend a seal enclosure for the most accurate (flattest/neutral) sound with the highest transient response. You're not looking for either of these of a vented or bandpass subwoofer is what you're looking for. If you're using subwoofers designed/engineered for sealed boxes you're going to continue to be disappointed.

You ought to look at a ported or even band pass enclosure as you get 3-4 dB gain from the port/slot if tuned correctly. I haven't seen anyone with a band pass and darn few with ported enclosures here. The Z lacks the real estate for the band pass. Most people go with sealed boxes, and most manufactures are engineering/producing subwoofers for sealed boxes.

Kwame

iTrader: (78)

Paul, once again, great post.

SQBassHead

iTrader: (37)

Good info Paul thank you.
First off i want to let you know that my SPARE TIRE IS GONE(i have AAA ) so your telling me its all in the box. right? For my HCCA i had a box built to spec for the 12 (unless they lied to me) but i know its about 2.3 cubic feet ported. My PDX is running at 1000w at 2ohms ( i know it is not enough power for the HCCA). I have my orion amp that is 5000w max and 2500w rms sitting in my closet, but that thing is huge and plus idk if the Orion will sound good enough(this thing is loud but i felt more bass with my 10w6v2). Im honestly just thinking about putting it back in my gfs car. Paul what do you think i should do? should i get 2 more 10w6v2 and have a box built for all at once? or should i just start over with new subs? I really like my PDX amps bc there so small and stay out of the way. What do you think? thanks
p.s. I was thinking of staying sealed. I really dont want to lose quality, i just want to push the limit.


i know exactly what your talking about. i had this exact setup with a spacer. oh but the bolts that hold the stealth box to the car BROKE OFF after i had 10w6v2 in it. I had took care of the vibration against the strut bar the first day i got it intalled. So i dont know if i can put new bolts on or what? Your right they hit hard they hit better than my Orion HCCA but they were lacking low notes. I think i just got greedy and wanted more bass. fyi when i had my 10w6v2 in they bumped so hard my rear view mirror broke off one day when i was on the highway..lol... but i still wanted to feel more bass...lol.. dude i think im addicted to bass. how many ohms do you have your 10w6v2 at.

StreetOC192

iTrader: (7)

OK, so after that post, it sounds like the subs and amp combo are all fine, but YOU just want to FEEL more?

What about a pair of Aurasound shakers? One under each seat?
http://madisound.com/catalog/product...oducts_id=1667

rtiid22

..well then.. I guess it's time to look into a pair of 13w7, JL has a special now on those. and get another PDX 1.1000 amp.. and a box and electrical system upgrade..

Dude, you seriously want more?

btw, I've got my subs wired as a 4 ohm load

jonny_q

to really improve the spl while keeping your system clean your looking at an exponential increase in power to gain spl. if you are looking at running 1600watts rms from your system i would look at improving your cars electrical system. look at an after market alternator, changing out your grounds to heavier cables. going to a performace battery if not two and possibly a capacitor. that way you will have the real power there when you need it for those really low notes. no matter how good your subs or amps may be they will never perform at full potential on 12 or eve 11 volts. next i would look at the signal your sending to the amps. is the amp rated for a 5v input signal and if so is it recieving it. then after that ensure that you also dont have any excess wire and your install is clean with good connection points so you do not have any line loss. next i would possibly look at building a ported box if you really are after low hard hitting bass. it does not need to have a crazy 9db spike at 25htz but by shifting the power lower it may be what your after. with computer programs such as winisd and autocad you can easily do the math and design yourself. keep in mind your working with serious power and 1" mdf, screws instead of nailgunning, a good quality wood glue and bracing may be needed to really design a box to last. all those little things will build up to gain you a lot of extra performance from your system.

hopefully that helps and best of luck with your build,

Jon

SQBassHead

iTrader: (37)

LOL... its funny you mentioned this. bc this did cross my mind(plenty of times). But ive been reading so much negative words regarding 13W7. But i really dont want to go for spl. Ive heard so many systems where the bass is loud and hits hard but the bass never seperates between notes, it just feels like one note. And when they lower the bass so the subs can seperate each note,and there weak. I really need to hear two 13W7 before i jump on them. Right now i im leaning on just throwing my 10W6v2 back in..

Do you think i can fix my stealth box? or screw it and just have another box made with Pauls specs in mind?

As far as electrical upgrade all i have is a yellow top (optima). I already know im gonna need a new alternator if i get another amp. but i was trying to hold the alternator until i get my turbos.

How do you guys compare 13W7 with my HCCA? meaning do they sound similar, wich one leans to more SQL (probably 13W7) and its a big plus if you have actually heard both of them. Plus Space is limited in the Z remember? If i get a box built for 2 13W7 (or similar sub) and the specs are close to the the sealed pre fab box from JL AUDIO, I would rather just get the 13W7 with the pre fab box from JL and save myself some money. Right?

AAARRRRGH I dont know guys. Thank You for your support.
oh i wish i had time to do everything myself but i really dont have time. Regardless the route i go i will need to have a shop do it( it just makes things easy) has anyone ever tried those bass shakers? do they make a big difference? im still very on them.

duro78

iTrader: (6)

how the hell does your rear view mirror break off and end up on the highway??? what did it fall off then make a left or right in mid air then travel two feet horizontally then out the window

SQBassHead

iTrader: (37)

dude that is pretty much impossible...lol... and if it did do that; My system would be the last of my worries

ok i was on the highway driving and putting my system to use(i was blasting it)... if i remember correctly... i was playing three 6 mafia and me and my gf were going to disneyland and then all of a sudden my rear view mirror falls and is hanging in mid air by the harness ... i was like WTF. my gf unclipped the harness and then Once we parked i looked at it, and the little metal clip that is conected to the window broke in half.... i looked to see how much it was to replace but i said the hell with it, you cant see much out that back window anywayz

StreetOC192

iTrader: (7)

Before wasting money on a JL 13w7, I think you should really check out some other options that would (in my opinion) outperform the W7 for your "high SQ but very high SPL at the same time" needs.

Like the AudioPulse Revo:
http://www.audiopulse.com/products/s...r-drivers/revo

IDMax:
http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/prod...hp?Family_Id=4


As for the Bass Shaker, I have installed them in 2 cars and I have also used them in my home theater. They definitely add the FEEL. The beauty of them is because you aren't relying on you subs to provide the feel, it allows them to focus on clean deep bass and handing the tactile effects over to a unit that is actually designed for such tasks. This will give you the SQ from the sub you want, while getting the feel you want from the Bass Shaker.

shaun123

try a 10 w7 in a ported box with a JL 500/1. Should sound decent in the hatchback.

Kwame

iTrader: (78)

I've been a passenger in this car and I can tell you that this system would satisfy your needs and then some...



http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/367530-post56.html

KPierson

iTrader: (1)

You definately have enough power for a sealed box, and a sealed box will give you the best SQ.

As Paul said, it's all in the box - make sure the box is no more then 10% off of the recmended specs. Also, to maximize the power of the amp try dropping down to a 2 ohm load if you get new subs - that will get you a bit more output. I, personally, would get rid of the stealthbox and have a box custom made for the subs you ultimately go with.

With the kind of power you are running there is no reason you shouldn't be able to achieve what you are looking for!

adamtaylorpcb

iTrader: (7)

agreed to an extent.


i ran a JL W7 10 in a recommended 1.4 ft^3 box and it sounded like ***

now im running the same speaker in a 2.1 ft^3 box sealed stuffed with polyfill and its 1000 % better

KPierson

iTrader: (1)

That's really strange, do you have any theories as to why a 50% larger box sounds better? It's obviously in JLs best interest for the sub to sound best in the box they recommend.

I've built countless boxes to the mfg specs and I've never had one that didn't sound good. Back when I was an installer we put subs in prefabbed boxes all day long that sounded less then optimal because the boxes weren't sized correctly for the subs.

Was there anything strange about the box (extreme diminsions in one direction, ports, structual issues etc)?

How did you go about determining a air space for the new box?