Amp wiring kits. The goods and bads from personal experience
05-25-2010, 01:11 PM
#1
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Amp wiring kits. The goods and bads from personal experience
This all started last month when I originally bought an 8 gauge Scosche kit. Hooked it all up thinking it would do before I decided on the MB Quart 4125 amp. It required a 4 gauge kit so I figured all 4 gauge kits should basically be the same. I ordered some crappy Power Acoustik supposed 4 gauge kit. It came in the mail and the wire itself was thinner than the 8 gauge Scosche I had bought. The rest was just really thick insulation. I am still waiting for my money to be credited back for the return on that POS kit. NEVER buy a Power Acoustik amp kit. They are all crap. I went and ordered a Kicker 09ZCK4 kit and I couldn't be more impressed. It was the most flexible easy to work with thick wire I have ever dealt with. I ordered an extra Kicker RCA wire also for the other channel which was amazing quality.
My biggest reason beyond having wire that may have been too thin was that I was getting a lot of bad engine whine through the speakers also. I tried everything with what I had and even a ground loop isolator. Wasnt sure if it was the crappy ground wire or cheap RCA cables. I now dont have an ounce of noise to deal with and couldnt be happier.
This is more of just a PSA to not buy a crappy wiring kit. You may save money in the long run. I know I would have.
Here is the wiring kit I went with
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...K4+-+ZCK4.html
And here is the crap one I had to return
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...ik+AKIT-4.html
My biggest reason beyond having wire that may have been too thin was that I was getting a lot of bad engine whine through the speakers also. I tried everything with what I had and even a ground loop isolator. Wasnt sure if it was the crappy ground wire or cheap RCA cables. I now dont have an ounce of noise to deal with and couldnt be happier.
This is more of just a PSA to not buy a crappy wiring kit. You may save money in the long run. I know I would have.
Here is the wiring kit I went with
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...K4+-+ZCK4.html
And here is the crap one I had to return
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...ik+AKIT-4.html
Last edited by dave079; 05-25-2010 at 01:13 PM.
05-25-2010, 02:17 PM
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the engine whine you hear through your speakers is usually caused by a bad grounding point. quality accessories make all the difference in an audio install. i dont understand how some people spend all kinds of money on amps and speakers but then skimp on the wiring and terminals. usually i stick to accessories from phoenix gold, stinger, or knu konceptz.
05-25-2010, 02:31 PM
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the engine whine you hear through your speakers is usually caused by a bad grounding point. quality accessories make all the difference in an audio install. i dont understand how some people spend all kinds of money on amps and speakers but then skimp on the wiring and terminals. usually i stick to accessories from phoenix gold, stinger, or knu konceptz.
As for this Kicker kit the quality is amazing. The wire is like a wet noodle its so flexible and the outer insulation is very slippery feeling so it runs and flexes so easily.
05-25-2010, 03:22 PM
#5
I've got a similar experience...
I just wired a system in a lifted fullsize Blazer I'm building with a similar Kicker kit, Kicker PK4. It's basically the same kit but without the RCA's and speaker wiring. It's amazing how flexible the 4ga wire is, and they extra shielding on the side thats in the engine bay looks like it should hold up great as well. I used a 3 channel Monster RCA set (6C-5M) and 16ga Monster speaker wiring. I typically wouldn't buy Monster just due to the ridiculous pricing, but I was able to get both for a very reasonable cost online and the quality seems on point. 16ga to my speakers was probably overkill, but I'd rather do it right the first time and space isn't exactly at a premium in a giant truck like this with huge channels to hide wiring.
I've been out of the audio game for quite a while (8-9 years) so it's been fun getting back into it, it's amazing how much I'd forgotten! I had the Blazer completely gutted so it was a perfect time to put together a modest system since there was absolutely nothing stereo related installed when I bought it about a month ago. Nothing crazy, new deck, some decent speakers, sub, and a Alpine PDX-5 5 channel amp at the core of it. I was careful with the wiring and laid down sound deadener just about everywhere so I'm hoping it sounds halfway decent with no interference.
How do you like the new set up Dave?
I just wired a system in a lifted fullsize Blazer I'm building with a similar Kicker kit, Kicker PK4. It's basically the same kit but without the RCA's and speaker wiring. It's amazing how flexible the 4ga wire is, and they extra shielding on the side thats in the engine bay looks like it should hold up great as well. I used a 3 channel Monster RCA set (6C-5M) and 16ga Monster speaker wiring. I typically wouldn't buy Monster just due to the ridiculous pricing, but I was able to get both for a very reasonable cost online and the quality seems on point. 16ga to my speakers was probably overkill, but I'd rather do it right the first time and space isn't exactly at a premium in a giant truck like this with huge channels to hide wiring.
I've been out of the audio game for quite a while (8-9 years) so it's been fun getting back into it, it's amazing how much I'd forgotten! I had the Blazer completely gutted so it was a perfect time to put together a modest system since there was absolutely nothing stereo related installed when I bought it about a month ago. Nothing crazy, new deck, some decent speakers, sub, and a Alpine PDX-5 5 channel amp at the core of it. I was careful with the wiring and laid down sound deadener just about everywhere so I'm hoping it sounds halfway decent with no interference.
How do you like the new set up Dave?
05-25-2010, 03:27 PM
#6
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I've got a similar experience...
I just wired a system in a lifted fullsize Blazer I'm building with a similar Kicker kit, Kicker PK4. It's basically the same kit but without the RCA's and speaker wiring. It's amazing how flexible the 4ga wire is, and they extra shielding on the side thats in the engine bay looks like it should hold up great as well. I used a 3 channel Monster RCA set (6C-5M) and 16ga Monster speaker wiring. I typically wouldn't buy Monster just due to the ridiculous pricing, but I was able to get both for a very reasonable cost online and the quality seems on point. 16ga to my speakers was probably overkill, but I'd rather do it right the first time and space isn't exactly at a premium in a giant truck like this with huge channels to hide wiring.
I've been out of the audio game for quite a while (8-9 years) so it's been fun getting back into it, it's amazing how much I'd forgotten! I had the Blazer completely gutted so it was a perfect time to put together a modest system since there was absolutely nothing stereo related installed when I bought it about a month ago. Nothing crazy, new deck, some decent speakers, sub, and a Alpine PDX-5 5 channel amp at the core of it. I was careful with the wiring and laid down sound deadener just about everywhere so I'm hoping it sounds halfway decent with no interference.
How do you like the new set up Dave?
I just wired a system in a lifted fullsize Blazer I'm building with a similar Kicker kit, Kicker PK4. It's basically the same kit but without the RCA's and speaker wiring. It's amazing how flexible the 4ga wire is, and they extra shielding on the side thats in the engine bay looks like it should hold up great as well. I used a 3 channel Monster RCA set (6C-5M) and 16ga Monster speaker wiring. I typically wouldn't buy Monster just due to the ridiculous pricing, but I was able to get both for a very reasonable cost online and the quality seems on point. 16ga to my speakers was probably overkill, but I'd rather do it right the first time and space isn't exactly at a premium in a giant truck like this with huge channels to hide wiring.
I've been out of the audio game for quite a while (8-9 years) so it's been fun getting back into it, it's amazing how much I'd forgotten! I had the Blazer completely gutted so it was a perfect time to put together a modest system since there was absolutely nothing stereo related installed when I bought it about a month ago. Nothing crazy, new deck, some decent speakers, sub, and a Alpine PDX-5 5 channel amp at the core of it. I was careful with the wiring and laid down sound deadener just about everywhere so I'm hoping it sounds halfway decent with no interference.
How do you like the new set up Dave?
It sounds super clean and the amp is a monster for the price I paid. Very happy with it all.
Here is a pic of my HU installed.
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05-25-2010, 04:21 PM
#8
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Dave, Thanks for posting your information which I believe is helpful for many members here.
Wiring a home theater is different from wiring a car. A home theater has relatively long runs that usually don’t have a lot of interference points, so picking reasonably priced wiring makes sense. The components in a home theater have built-in grounds making things a lot more reliable and simple. I try to keep the wiring cost reasonable, but do spend more on wires that are buried inside walls in the house.
Wiring a car’s A/V components is different. There is lots of metal, wires that are in close proximity, multiple grounds, etc. Add to this is the fact your car has an alternator and lots of other electrical equipment that can result in interference and unwanted “noise.”
I usually don’t worry much about the cost of the physical wires since the runs are short making the cost comparatively minimal. One thing I consider is the physical characteristic of the wire. You mention this:
I really think that is a good way to evaluate the quality of a wire. A wire that is relatively stiff and lacks flexibility might be OK, but it could indicate a poorly built wire (i.e., cheap insulation or a substandard metal that makes up the wire). A flexible wire with thick and soft insulation is a good indicator of quality.
Davidc81 mentions the importance of grounds, and you elaborate on this point.
That’s great advice and a good description of how to do your ground. I try to create a good ground (as you explain), and then ground as much of the system that is practical to that single ground.
…Really like the look of your installation (your picture in message #6).
--Spike
Wiring a home theater is different from wiring a car. A home theater has relatively long runs that usually don’t have a lot of interference points, so picking reasonably priced wiring makes sense. The components in a home theater have built-in grounds making things a lot more reliable and simple. I try to keep the wiring cost reasonable, but do spend more on wires that are buried inside walls in the house.
Wiring a car’s A/V components is different. There is lots of metal, wires that are in close proximity, multiple grounds, etc. Add to this is the fact your car has an alternator and lots of other electrical equipment that can result in interference and unwanted “noise.”
I usually don’t worry much about the cost of the physical wires since the runs are short making the cost comparatively minimal. One thing I consider is the physical characteristic of the wire. You mention this:
Davidc81 mentions the importance of grounds, and you elaborate on this point.
…Really like the look of your installation (your picture in message #6).
--Spike
05-26-2010, 03:27 AM
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I also have used a kicker install kit but 0 gauge. Its very flexible and very easy to work with. I would never skimp on install kits because there never the true gauge and like you said you could be chasing a problem that is in the equipment
05-26-2010, 05:58 AM
#12
The flip side of going too cheap is going too expensive.
As an example are the good folks who argue that a $300 power cable isn't as good as a $1200 power cable on their tube amplifiers in their home stereo systems. That $1200 worth of golden cable is 2 meters long and plugs into 15,000 meters worth of common electrical wire that runs $0.18 a foot.
There is a sweet spot that's pretty well defined and broad. I always bought my parts individually and assembled my amp kit to meet my requirements. I've come to the conclusion that the Z is a "noisy" electrical vehicle so the extra $20 on better quality RCA connectors is cheap insurance against noise.
As an example are the good folks who argue that a $300 power cable isn't as good as a $1200 power cable on their tube amplifiers in their home stereo systems. That $1200 worth of golden cable is 2 meters long and plugs into 15,000 meters worth of common electrical wire that runs $0.18 a foot.
There is a sweet spot that's pretty well defined and broad. I always bought my parts individually and assembled my amp kit to meet my requirements. I've come to the conclusion that the Z is a "noisy" electrical vehicle so the extra $20 on better quality RCA connectors is cheap insurance against noise.
05-26-2010, 07:23 AM
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The flip side of going too cheap is going too expensive.
As an example are the good folks who argue that a $300 power cable isn't as good as a $1200 power cable on their tube amplifiers in their home stereo systems. That $1200 worth of golden cable is 2 meters long and plugs into 15,000 meters worth of common electrical wire that runs $0.18 a foot.
As an example are the good folks who argue that a $300 power cable isn't as good as a $1200 power cable on their tube amplifiers in their home stereo systems. That $1200 worth of golden cable is 2 meters long and plugs into 15,000 meters worth of common electrical wire that runs $0.18 a foot.
i will agree that there's a certain price point of diminishing returns. my usual logic is that i know that i can usually get a similar product for cheaper, but i would rather pay a little extra now for added piece of mind.
05-26-2010, 08:18 AM
#15
Wow sounds like a very similar type deal. Same here for me but its been about 4 -5 years since I have done this. Went with MB Quart DSC-4125 amp, a JL Audio 10W3V3, Infinity Reference 6032si, Alpine ida-x303 HU, and a sealed .75 cu/in sealed box for the sub and the Kicker wiring kit.
It sounds super clean and the amp is a monster for the price I paid. Very happy with it all.
Here is a pic of my HU installed.
It sounds super clean and the amp is a monster for the price I paid. Very happy with it all.
Here is a pic of my HU installed.
Does this set up somehow allow you to use both the upper factory CD changer and the digital media functions on your Alpine X303? I don't like that on newer cars they are integrating in screens that have functions other than the stereo, i.e. sensor readings HVAC, etc. It makes it too hard to change out, but it looks like you may have found a solution, at least for your particular vehicle. My GF's '07 Sentra has this problem, which basically makes it impossible to swap out for an aftermarket unit.
My setup is a Sony GT-700HD HD radio receiver, 4" Alpine Type S dash speakers run on receiver power with 800 MHz bass blockers, custom fabricating door panels with Alpine Type R SPR-17S 6.5" components (no factory door speakers FTL!), and I modified the rear brackets in the headliner that held 4x10 (4x10's FTL!) to house Alpine Type R SPR-69C 6x9's. Both of the Type R's will be run off the Alpine PDX-5, and still trying to decide on a sub at this time. It's really just a trail/camping/tow rig so I'm probably already far overkill on the project.
It's still pretty modest mid line parts though, I've probably only spent about a grand on it all, and with how expensive some of the high end stuff is it's reasonable.
05-26-2010, 09:33 AM
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Nice set up! MB Quart was the brand to have when I was in the scene back then.
Does this set up somehow allow you to use both the upper factory CD changer and the digital media functions on your Alpine X303? I don't like that on newer cars they are integrating in screens that have functions other than the stereo, i.e. sensor readings HVAC, etc. It makes it too hard to change out, but it looks like you may have found a solution, at least for your particular vehicle. My GF's '07 Sentra has this problem, which basically makes it impossible to swap out for an aftermarket unit.
My setup is a Sony GT-700HD HD radio receiver, 4" Alpine Type S dash speakers run on receiver power with 800 MHz bass blockers, custom fabricating door panels with Alpine Type R SPR-17S 6.5" components (no factory door speakers FTL!), and I modified the rear brackets in the headliner that held 4x10 (4x10's FTL!) to house Alpine Type R SPR-69C 6x9's. Both of the Type R's will be run off the Alpine PDX-5, and still trying to decide on a sub at this time. It's really just a trail/camping/tow rig so I'm probably already far overkill on the project. It's still pretty modest mid line parts though, I've probably only spent about a grand on it all, and with how expensive some of the high end stuff is it's reasonable.
Does this set up somehow allow you to use both the upper factory CD changer and the digital media functions on your Alpine X303? I don't like that on newer cars they are integrating in screens that have functions other than the stereo, i.e. sensor readings HVAC, etc. It makes it too hard to change out, but it looks like you may have found a solution, at least for your particular vehicle. My GF's '07 Sentra has this problem, which basically makes it impossible to swap out for an aftermarket unit.
My setup is a Sony GT-700HD HD radio receiver, 4" Alpine Type S dash speakers run on receiver power with 800 MHz bass blockers, custom fabricating door panels with Alpine Type R SPR-17S 6.5" components (no factory door speakers FTL!), and I modified the rear brackets in the headliner that held 4x10 (4x10's FTL!) to house Alpine Type R SPR-69C 6x9's. Both of the Type R's will be run off the Alpine PDX-5, and still trying to decide on a sub at this time. It's really just a trail/camping/tow rig so I'm probably already far overkill on the project.
It's still pretty modest mid line parts though, I've probably only spent about a grand on it all, and with how expensive some of the high end stuff is it's reasonable.I remember back in the day when MB Quart was real good stuff especially in the speaker area. I just did a lot of research and for the $160 I paid for this amp it has amazing power and doesn't get hot. The reviews from everywhere have all been good. I am very happy with it.
I am happy in general with the whole thing. All together everything was only $500. HU was $160, wiring was $100, box and sub were $170, and door speakers were $60.
05-26-2010, 09:38 AM
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I just realized that's the very first time I've seen an aftermarket CD player in an Accord. I remember when my roommate for one years back my initial reaction was "How the hell do you put a CD player in here?"
05-26-2010, 09:40 AM
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The flip side of going too cheap is going too expensive.
As an example are the good folks who argue that a $300 power cable isn't as good as a $1200 power cable on their tube amplifiers in their home stereo systems. That $1200 worth of golden cable is 2 meters long and plugs into 15,000 meters worth of common electrical wire that runs $0.18 a foot.
There is a sweet spot that's pretty well defined and broad. I always bought my parts individually and assembled my amp kit to meet my requirements. I've come to the conclusion that the Z is a "noisy" electrical vehicle so the extra $20 on better quality RCA connectors is cheap insurance against noise.
As an example are the good folks who argue that a $300 power cable isn't as good as a $1200 power cable on their tube amplifiers in their home stereo systems. That $1200 worth of golden cable is 2 meters long and plugs into 15,000 meters worth of common electrical wire that runs $0.18 a foot.
There is a sweet spot that's pretty well defined and broad. I always bought my parts individually and assembled my amp kit to meet my requirements. I've come to the conclusion that the Z is a "noisy" electrical vehicle so the extra $20 on better quality RCA connectors is cheap insurance against noise.
The guys buying the $1200 power cable are buying it because its a status thing. they want to have the best of everything. if you're going to spend $30,000 on a krell evolution amp, might as well get a $1200 power cable for it!
i will agree that there's a certain price point of diminishing returns. my usual logic is that i know that i can usually get a similar product for cheaper, but i would rather pay a little extra now for added piece of mind.
i will agree that there's a certain price point of diminishing returns. my usual logic is that i know that i can usually get a similar product for cheaper, but i would rather pay a little extra now for added piece of mind.
That I had done originally. Made sure of that.
05-26-2010, 09:42 AM
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Haha yeah you dont see many. The sound in it was just awful and I didnt want to hook up a PAC type thing, so this was my best option. They sell kits that replace the whole upper dash with A?C controls and all but it just looks cheap.