devildriver421

iTrader: (1)

So I'm planning on ordering my head unit and speakers this weekend. I chose to go with a alpine iva-w505 and have 4 choices for speakers:
BA pro60se
Focal 165a3
ID CTX65CS
Infinity Reference 6030cs

I'm assuming that the "you get what you pay for" is in effect here, meaning the Focals would be my best choice. However, I really only want to pay that much if it's going to make a world of difference. I'm not an audiophile, however I would like to have some quality speakers. I'm just curious as to whether the average enthusiast could justify breaking the budget for higher end speakers, because I've heard fantastic things about every other speaker there. I'm going to a shop later today to listen to some speakers, but they only carry Focal out of these, so I can't hear them side-by-side.

Also, does anyone know about Hertz speakers in the 2-250 range?

Spike100

^^ Hertz speakers are excellent. You won’t be disappointed.

I prefer Focals, and that’s listening to a bunch of different speakers for a comparison. But my favorite (Focals) is a personal preference. Not everyone will choose Focals over competing speakers.

If you go with Focals:

• Do NOT install the tweeters in the Sail Panel. I tried this, and the sound was not good. I moved the tweeters to the A-Pillar, and the sound is great there.
  
  
• Do NOT mount the midrange in the stock door slot using the stock door-speaker grille. This position/configuration results in muffled sound and lots of vibration from the door panel.

--Spike

devildriver421

iTrader: (1)

I'm planning on putting pods in, but it's not an option yet. And I'm not cheaping on anything, so I won't have to "fix" it later, but I will be adding more later. I'd just like the speakers to hold me over until I can get the pods.

Spike100

^^ I get what you are saying since that is exactly what I did. In fact that is how I discovered the stock door mount and stock door grille wasn't what I wanted.

Try using the stock door mount and grille. You lose nothing, and possibly it will be OK for you. If you don't like the sound, you can add the door pods or kicks with no $$ waste.

--Spike

revvenue

If you're pulling the door panels apart for stock mounting location, at least take an extra couple minutes to put some Dynamat (or a quality alternative) while you have it open. It really does make a difference, especially if you have your mids hitting bass notes in the lower Hz range.

Spike100

^^ I agree. The Z (with all of its cubbies) is the best for mounting all sorts of A/V components (speakers, amps, SubW’s, LCD screens, etc.). But, the Z is absolutely terrible at eliminating road noise.

Whenever I do a disassembly, I always add sound deadening. But, installing adequate aftermarket sound-deadening can add 200 pounds to the car.

Notice that Corvette has a relatively quiet passenger compartment. You hear the engine and the exhaust, but not road/tire noise. They accomplish this by using light-weight and tight-fitting sound panels. I wish this was an option for the Z (which suffers from a great deal of road/tire noise even if you add a lot of sound deadening and weight).

Excessive road noise is one of the worst features of the Z.

--Spike

devildriver421

iTrader: (1)

I was planning on using some thinner sound deadening for that. The road noise is just a little too much for me, but I occasionally track my car, so I don't want to add too much weight.

I just am not sure what I'm looking at when it comes to specs, and I don't know which speaker would be the "best". I don't really want to pay $400 for a set of speakers, but everyone on here seems to say that $200 will get crap speakers. I'm not sure if that's because some people on here are incredibly picky(which is fine) or for competitions or whatever. I just don't want to end up disappointed.

Oh and I stopped by the audio shop earlier, didn't have anything I could listen to

Spike100

If you track your Z, do NOT install sound deadening. The type of sound deadening we are discussing here adds significant weight, and that is a disadvantage on the track.

About what $$’s really gets in CES upgrades:

• In fact $200 gets you a much better speaker than the OEM model (which is worth <$50). So, spending a little more provides a significant improvement at the low-end.
  
• However, the relationship between cost and sound-quality in CES components is actually a structure of diminishing returns.That is mostly true as you go higher in co$t. For example a $600 speaker is not 3 times better than a $200 speaker.

Going high-end (spending a lot of $$’s) flattens quickly on sound difference.

--Spike

jamesdean

iTrader: (1)

I have the Hertz HSK 165...Fantastic...major negative if you do not do pods like I didnt<regret that btw> Major moding to get these things in the door and I still dont have the covers back in my door panels cause I need to modify the hell out of them to get them back in and jsut have not had the time. took me and a friend about 2 hours a door to install them.

duro78

iTrader: (6)

Spike I actually sealed and dynamatted my doors which eliminated the vibration completely. Also added the foam egg carton material behind the midranges which drastically improved sound quality

devildriver421

iTrader: (1)

One other question. If most people mount the tweeter in the kick or door pod anyway, why not just get coax speakers?

Spike100

That’s a very good question. In fact a high quality coaxial speaker would work fine in a kick.

The same high quality coaxial speaker may not work as well in a door pod simply because you may not be able to aim/direct the tweeter to get the best listening angle for high frequency sound.

Also, the top speakers are usually component speakers, but that is not to say you cannot buy a great coaxial speaker. There are some very good coaxial speakers, and they are typically a bargain.

--Spike

Spike100

You are correct. My problem (door panel vibration) is exacerbated by the fact I do not have a SubW in my current car, and all the bass is sent to the Focals mounted in the door. The setup I had previously did not vibrate the door panel since I off-loaded the lower frequencies to a SubW.

I’m evaluating a few different options for a SubW. I need all of the cargo space in the rear hatch area, so I cannot use this to mount a SubW. The “under-strut” position robs space and won’t work for me. A rear-quarter panel is out since I need to fit a golf bag. And, I don’t want to surrender the spare tire compartment. That leaves only the stock behind-the-seat position, and we all know the problems with this mount.

Once I find a home for a SubW, I can adjust the bass and eliminate the door panel vibration.

--Spike

devildriver421

iTrader: (1)

You seem like you really know what you're doing so I'm going to assume you can fab a fiberglass box. I'm not sure how it would sound but I thought about building a fiberglass box that goes between the strut and rear speaker on the passenger side. Have it fire in and up. you'll keep damn near all your cargo space.


Also, which would be "better":
Focal 165cvx coax
Focal 165a1
Image Dynamics CTX65cs
Infinity Ref 6030cs

I went to a shop today and liked the Focal 165v30 but they didnt have anything other than those and alpines to listen to. I'm just wondering what kind of difference the aluminum cone tweeter would have from the TNB? And I didn't really like the idea of $400 speakers, this is a somewhat budget build, so if I could get the same or near the same quality sound from the coaxial for half the price I'd prefer that. Otherwise it's gonna be something in the $200 range. As I've mentioned, I had pioneer premier and xplod speakers in my old vehicles and those weren't great at all but they kept me "content", so double the budget should get me where I'm happy.

devildriver421

iTrader: (1)

Another question(alot I know) I have a pair of Pioneer TS-A741P's sittin around, I was planning on putting them in place of the stock rears. My question is: is it worth it to get an amp to power them or let my deck do it since it's going to be faded forward anyway?

I have no clue what to look for in amps, the alpine pdx-f4 looks pretty awesome but it's a class d...does that really matter?

Spike100

Your idea for sealed box would work (“…but I thought about building a fiberglass box that goes between the strut and rear speaker on the passenger side…”), but it robs the space needed to load a second set of golf clubs (which I need).

Unless you devise the box you are describing as inside the passenger glove cubby, cut out the rear wall, and fire rearward; you won’t preserve much cargo space. In fact as to preserving cargo space, you are probably better off buying a premade box that mounts below the strut bar.

Any of the speakers you mention provide good sound. I’m hopelessly and overly prejudiced in my preference for Focals. But, you may prefer the sound from a different brand. Also, you need to consider the co$t to value ratio. Focals are expensive. If you like the sound from a less costly speaker, that is what you should put intoi your car.

--Spike

devildriver421

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for all your help, Spike especially. I ended up going with the Focals, I couldn't get into anything else after listening. So by next week I'll have:
Pioneer AVH-P4200dvd
Focal Polyglass 165 VR3
Alpine MRP-F300

and the amp came with some cheaper Alpine coaxs that I plan on putting in place of the stock rears, unamplified, faded forward.

Subwoofer/amp and speaker pods will come after my deployment.

What would you recommend for sound deadening? I know I'm kind of beating a dead horse here but all the threads I've found have been inconclusive. I'm only planning on putting a small amount in to help with vibration, sound quality, and a tiny bit of road noise. Not looking to add much weight. I'm thinking doors, floors and rear wheel wells. Are these the most effective places? And what about the type? I've seen a lot of hatred for the peel n seals.

Thanks again

Spike100

^^ I like your equipment list. These pieces will certainly provide some very good sound.

Be aware that you will not be able to mount your Focal 165 VR3 speakers in the stock door position. I’m sure you already know that, but I mention this because you said: “Subwoofer/amp and speaker pods will come after my deployment.” Choosing to mount a 3-way component speaker in the Z is somewhat ambitious, but it does provide great sound if you select the right mounting positions for the three components (woofer, midrange, and tweeter).

Mounting your new Focal 165 VR3 speakers requires some custom fabrication.

• The woofer is 2-11/16” deep (too deep for the stock door mount), so you will mount this in either a door pod or a kick.
  
• You also need to mount the component speakers’ 4 inch midrange which has a depth-to wall measurement of 1-9/16”.
  
• The tweeter will not fit the stock Sail Panel, but you do’t want to put the tweeter there anyway.

Other things to consider

• You should mount the midrange and the tweeter as close to one another as practical.
  
• The woofer can go anywhere, but not in a position where it’s output is blocked.

Here are different ways to mount your Focal 165 VR3 speakers

• Mount the woofers in door pods, and mount the tweeters and the midranges in a kick.
  
• Mount the woofer in a door pod, mount the midrange with its grille in a custom cut-out in the upper/forward part of the door-panel, and mount the tweeter with its grille in either a custom cut-out in the upper/forward part of the door-panel or put the tweeter in the A-Pillar.
  
• If you can fit the woofer into the stock door mount (not easily done), consider doing that since its lower frequency output is not horrible with the stock door mount. Then create a custom cutout in the upper/forward section of the door panel to accommodate the midrange. Mount the tweeter with its grille in either a custom cut-out in the upper/forward part of the door-panel or put the tweeter in the A-Pillar.

Something else…
I would consider using the extra two channels in your Alpine MRP-F300 to drive the rear coaxial speakers you received with the amp purchase (“and the amp came with some cheaper Alpine coaxs that I plan on putting in place of the stock rears.”).

Those Alpine coaxials you gor for free are actually very good speakers deserving an external amp. If you are going to take the trouble to disassemble the rear speaker mount and mount your new coaxials, then drive them with good power.

When you decide to mount a SubW, get a dedicated 2 channel amp for the SubW.

--Spike

Spike100

When it comes to sound-deadening, the priority is deadening the door if you mount a speaker in the stock door slot or added door pods.

The rest of it depends upon what you want in your car. If you do sound deadening the right way in the Z, you do this:

• Deaden the front doors
• Deaden the front wheel wells, front floor, the pod behind the driver/passenger seat, the rear wheel wells, and the rear cargo floor.

Obviously this amount of deadening adds an enormous amount of weight to the car. That is not a good thing. You make your car heavy, and pay a lot of $$ to do this.

The real downside is that adding all this weight and the expense doing this does not provide the best result since the car remains relatively noisy.

It would be great to see an aftermarket product for the Z that is a set of “glass” panels that provide light-weight, close-fitting, and good sound-deadening (something like what Corvette owners enjoy).

--Spike

devildriver421

iTrader: (1)

Typo: 165 VR not the VR3. They're the 2-ways http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product
That won't be able to fit in the stock position, even with a spacer?

Also, the reason I was only going to power the Focals is that the rears will be just for fill and I see a lot of people saying don't even bother hooking them up. I had assumed that if I just let the HU power them, it would be enough since I don't want them to be overpowering. But, I'm probably mistaken.'

And as far as sound deadening goes, what type would you recommend?