SHIFTZ

Hey richie, im good dude....hows the car going?

This was at city Nissan. I put a deposit on a silver with black track for June/July delivery. Ive also sourced a silver with black track at Melton Nissan....the dealer keeps calling every day seemingly dropping the price, down to 68 now. I havnt sold my car yet. I have to sell my car if im gonna pick up the Z. Ive started advertising in Auto Supermarket and Unique and hopefully grab some interstate attention.

I dont mind waiting till June/July. But if i sell my car soon (fingers crossed) i mite end up buying the car from Melton if still available. Im hoping with this new batch of cars, a few of the teething problems may be addressed.

SHIFTZ

i was doing a search around the 350Z sites and found two dyno readouts for the car, one in 3rd, other in 5th gear.

http://www.350zfrenzy.com/modificati...dyno/index.php

now ive seen it myself. How can the Aus cars be making 30kw less at the wheels. Now im no dyno guru, but since were losing 30kw at the wheels, rnt we losing alot more than 8kw (214 vs 206) at the engine????? Wouldnt the real Aus power figure be below 200?

If ne1 else has the means of dyno testing the car, it would greatly increase the ability to compare the Aus and US cars.

Also, is fitting a US ECU actually feasible. Dave u said the octane and ron scales are different, so doesnt that mean we still wouldnt be able to find US quality fuel here??? Forgive me for sounding confused, it all seems rather annoying.

apsilon

Just thought of this while driving back from Canberra, sorry if it was posted earlier and I missed it.

When you ran on the dyno was it with the TC/VDC on or off? If it was on I believe this could produce a lower result.

Just a thought.

ZZZ-35

apsilon

VDC was off, air-con off, maybe I will try a different dyno??

The only other thing I can think off in regards to only getting a 5.5kW increase with the new exhaust, is that I fitted the exhaust on a week a go and then re-fitted the std. the night before the dyno. Maybe the ECU has already adjusted for it??????

Dam this ECU.

Totally Confused.

David

malcolm

I think that it is certain that the drop in our performance in Australia can be attributed to way that the ECU has been programmed to cope with our lower quality fuels. This will not only apply to Nissan, but will be accross all manufacturers of performance cars.

U.S. cars have been designed for a minimum 91 octane fuel, with many drivers using premium, running on higher than 91. Following are the Australian eqivalents:-

Regular unleaded - 91 RON, 82 MON = 86.5 Octane

Premium 94 - 94 RON, 82 MON = 88 Octane

BP Ultimate or Shell equiv - 98 RON, 85 MON = 91.5 Octane

Australian 350 ECU's will have been tuned to run on 88 Octane at best, and maybe even at 86.5 in order to cater for some ********* running standard unleaded. This will reduce the potential for warranty claims due to engine damage for using the wrong fuel.

We will never attain U.S. performance levels unless the ECU can be upgraded and we run on 98 RON as standard. I feel sure that a U.S. spec ECU dropped straight in, and run on 98 RON will restore our cars to US performance.

Most of the ECU difference will relate to the timing mapping, and maybe fuel mappings. Lower octane ratings are handled by retarding the timing which results in reduced performance or kw. Some US drivers are advancing their timing by up to 3 degrees and running on 93 - 94 Octane for increased performance.

I believe that companies such as Powerchip, are restoring our ECU's to US spec, plus maybe a little extra timing advance, if we use 98 RON. They quote 4kw extra for using 98 RON. Unfortunately they are charging $1300 to do this. Pretty rich to change a couple of set points in the ECU, but it will work.

We possibly can get some performance improvement simply by getting the dealer to advance the timing to the upper limit of the Nissan spec, if they specify a from/to range, and then use 98 RON fuel. Another good before and after dyno test result?

It would also be good to be able to get hold of a US or Japanese spec ECU and do a dyno test comparison.

Where to we go from here?

ZZZ-35

malcolm

You are spot on mate, I've had further talks with the guys at Powerchip and it appears that our ECU has two fuel and ignition mappings one high octane the other for low octane just like the LS1 ECU, and should somebody put in 91 Ron (86.5 Octane U.S.) then the car uses the low octane mappings, the high octane mappings are set to handle are premium fuel 95 Ron (88 Octane U.S.).

Still the costs of a new ECU will be far higher that $1300, I am thinking of maybe giving them a go, I have a 14 days satifaction guarantee to test it out and also get a dyno done. I need to check it out more or just wait and see what else pans out.

David

apsilon

Now that Nismo have announced they won't release an ECU (according to some other posts re SEMA news) I'll look at Powerchip more closely myself. I like the satisfaction thing. Defintely do a before and after dyno to see if it lives up to claims.

Z350Lover

iTrader: (2)

Thats good to hera mate!

But the only thing I am afraid is the the standard car ECU will self-adjust back to the stock standard setting(reverse action to what powerchip is going to do)... and by then you would have wasted a lot of money just to install it! Since it is just the reprogramming process, right?! not a replacement "chip" plugged into the existing ECU.... correct me on the reverse action by the standard ECU if I am wrong!

cheers,

richie

ZZZ-35

richie

No that won't be the case, because the fuel and igition mappings are tables that the ECU refers to, it can't revert back to the previous settings because they're not there anymore they have been written over by the new Powerchip mapping's, to return back to the standard ECU setting's it would need re-flashing.

David

MR RIZK

iTrader: (7)

ZZZ-35 is correct

SHIFTZ

The Powerchip route seems like a viable alternative to purchasing a US ECU, but.....now i dont pretend to know much here about chip tuning....but im assuming the ECU hardware is identical for US and AUS cars. Would it be possible to acquire the "mapping" as data from a US ECU, and simply adjust the AUS ECU to that, rather than tuning the AUS ECU from scratch. I have mates who've fiddled with their ECU's, fitted Unichips etc. and the driveability is never the same as standard, they became way too peaky.

Correct me here if im just rambling, i really dont know how the mapping thing works, just a thought.

MR RIZK

iTrader: (7)

Anything is possible. But I believe that the ECU is programed via the diagnostic port on the 350z in regards to the powerchip. So to do this you would need the tool and the software.

If there is only one chip to be programed in the ECU then you could get a eprom reader and read the chip(you would have to desolder the chip prior). The problem with this though is you need to know which chip and have access to a blank one. What some chip tuners do is also stagger the code in different memory address so that when you read the chip you don't get all the info unless you know the offsets of the memory ranges.

Yes 1300 is not worth it but is stuffing your ECU and your time required to investigate this really worth it. Considering tuning shops can write off their stuff ups on their tax returns they have more options open to them.

Nothing beats a replacement ECU like a Power FC or at least a decent piggy back unit like the HKS FCON S

apsilon

Personally I'd prefer a pure plug in solution. There's no warranty issues that way. Simply unplug whatever before the dealer looks at it. To that end is there any news regarding the HKS stuff? I hadn't been following that line as I'd pretty much decided to use the Nismo solution assuming there was going to be one, which apparently there isn't.

Z350Lover

iTrader: (2)

Thanks David, get to learn more everyday!!! kekeke...

If I need to change a chip, I think I will do the entire replace as what Mr. RIZK mentioned.... because that is more worth the money though! And also you can be able to sell it later on easier since it has more value than the powerchip!

Also the thing I dislike PowerChip so much is because many of my friends had really bad experiences with them.... that's why I didn't even chip my m3 although it claims that it provides a lot of improvement!

cheers and all the best!

richie

Nathan

Settle down boys & dont waste your money

Our car is a Jap spec car & when it 1st went on the dyno it made less power than ZZZ-35,s car, from memory about 142 kw at the rear wheels. I made a quick conversion to HP & panicked when I found out what the US cars were making.

My dyno guy pointed out that Australian dyno,s allow a 30% loss for gearbox, final drive & roller friction where as the US factor in around 12 to 15%. Why this is so I dont know but it has apparently allways been that way.

There is no magic locked away in our ECU,s maybe a bit with spark settings. A quick check of all the VQ35DE motors available sugests that they all have the same compression ratio. Heads, cams pistons ect . The FWD cars have different inlet systems & the HP,s vary from 250 to 287hp on the Z.

On advise from Nissan Motorsport South Africa we are useing the stock ECU on our race car. Be very wary of ECU modifiers charging huge fees. I may be proved wrong but you should take note that none of the Jap tuneing houses have yet got an ECU out that does anything more than raise the rev limit & take out the 180kph speed limit.

We have just got back from the Tassie round of our championship
& the car was just over a second a lap off the pace of the fastest qualifier a 300kw HSV which in reality probably makes 340kw.

I

ZZZ-35

Nathan

So the power figures Powerchip are quoting are nothing but bullsh#t, they quote a lift from 206kW to 220kW they say the fuel and ignition maps are refined to suit 98 Ron fuel (91.5 U.S. Octane) plus our cars are running rich in the high rpm range.

Your thoughs??? is it worth testing out, we can allways re-flash back to standard. If it is true, it's a worth while improvement and quite cost affective.

No way does a standard HSV GTS produce 300kW let alone 340kW, my dyno guy Peter is pretty clueded up on GenIII's ( had a few articles/cars in Street Machine uses a program called "LS1 Edit" for modify the ECU pretty switch on guy) he said there quoted 300kW is with a motor with nothing on it ie; alternator, power steering or any exhaust mufflers. How are these GP cars getting 340kW must be non standard.

David

SHIFTZ

im inclined to believe Nathan, after just having a small revelation while reading a past issue of Wheels on the toilet.

A comparo with the E46 M3, 996 911 Carrera and some Subaru sporting naff pink badging, including.....drum roll plz.......dyno tests!!!

Now the M3 with 253kw was pumping out 190kw at the rear wheels. Compared with the Z quoted at 206kw running 150kw, and a small trip down memory lane to y12 Specialist Maths reveals a power loss of 16% for the M3 and 17& for the Z!!

It just may be that our dyno's r different to the US'. Phew, one less thing to worry about while anxiously awaiting my delivery.

Nathan

ZZZ-35
Are Powerchips claims BS?
Lets just say that Powerchip USA does not list the Z on its applications list despite that over 10,000 Z,s have been delivered to North America & as the main forum indicates there is a huge pent up demand for ECU mods. Read CHEBOSTO,s post on the performance forum to get & idea as to the complexity of our ECU.
Powerchip AU within 3 weeks of release here have all the answers. Maybe, but I,m a sceptic.
In Procar GT Performance ECU,s are free, Exhausts from the Manifolds back are free & engine blueprinting is allowed. I know that 1 of our rivals HSV 300 is putting out 250rwh.
The difference between ANZAC dyno,s & US dyno,s is the size of the inertia wheel. Why I dont Know.

Nissan South Africa ran the works Nissan Hardboys (our Navara) in this years Paris Dakar rally. These are fitted with VQ35DE motors & use an English Pectel ECU. Running Cams, Heads, Headers, 10.5CR & put out around 400hp at the flywheel.
For the SA championship the run over 13.5 CR & on rocket fuel put out close to 500hp

ZZZ-35

Nathan

Thanks for your reply, that was one of my concerns regarding Powerchip having a solution so quick and before the rest of the world?? Aussie know how mate! or should I say B.S. it took 3 years for the LS1 ECU to be fuly cracked ie no piggybacks straight reprogramming I will investigate more with them. You say in the Pro GT Performance class ECU, exhaust and blueprinting are free, does mean you can modify them in any way?? if that's the case Powerchip's extra 14kW would be handy. What's your current power at the wheels??

Thanks again.

David

Nathan

David

The extra 14kw would be great, but as I said I,m a sceptic.
Our ECU has already been back to Japan to take out the 6600 rev
limit & remove the 180kph jap speed limit. It was done by Prime Garage the top Nissan tuner in Kyushu. They are trying to crack it.

I would pay Powerchips asking price if I thought it was true but I am not prepared to be the Guinea Pig. Believe me I would love to be wrong on this so if any of you try it please let us know.

The car is due to go back on the dyno soon but I would estimate about 220kw at the flywheel.

I base this estimate on comparing the on track perfomance with the BMW M3 we race against.

Nathan