Anyone tracked their 350Z?
10-26-2003, 01:16 AM
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Anyone tracked their 350Z?
I'm wondering if anyone of you has taken the 350Z to the track? If so, then which one/s and how did you go (ie. lap times)? Also, how did you find the car ... did you think it understeered much (ie. the VDC kicking in) and how did the brakes hold up?
Last of all I'm wondering if you use different pads for the track or/and tyres? If so, then what do you use?
Last of all I'm wondering if you use different pads for the track or/and tyres? If so, then what do you use?
10-26-2003, 02:19 AM
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A few of us here headed to Wakefield Park about 2 months ago for the day. Great fun and we'll be organising another one soon hopefully.
I found the car has a lot of understeer but in general handling was improved by turbing VDC off but still not what I'd like.
We all used stock brakes and tyres and I don;t think any of us had problems. I for one am not that serious to bother changing pads and wheels for one day here and there.
I found the car has a lot of understeer but in general handling was improved by turbing VDC off but still not what I'd like.
We all used stock brakes and tyres and I don;t think any of us had problems. I for one am not that serious to bother changing pads and wheels for one day here and there.
10-26-2003, 05:13 AM
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I'm heading out to Wakefield on the 4th November.
Hope to not be the only 350z there
!
I'll probably start a new thread to get peoples attention...
for the thread skimmers :P....
Hope to not be the only 350z there
!I'll probably start a new thread to get peoples attention...
for the thread skimmers :P....
10-26-2003, 02:07 PM
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Thanks Apsilon,
Do you recall what lap-times you were getting there and what speed you were reaching on the main straight?
I found the car has a lot of understeer but in general handling was improved by turning VDC off but still not what I'd like.
Can you elaboarate on that? What do you think was lacking? Or was it all down to too much understeer? If so, then when did it rear it's ugly head .... was it on the corner entry, mid corner or at the exit? Also was it through just the tighter corners or through the faster ones as well?
Any info will greatly appreciated.
ps. Do you think that anything can be done to 'fix' that?
Do you recall what lap-times you were getting there and what speed you were reaching on the main straight?
I found the car has a lot of understeer but in general handling was improved by turning VDC off but still not what I'd like.
Can you elaboarate on that? What do you think was lacking? Or was it all down to too much understeer? If so, then when did it rear it's ugly head .... was it on the corner entry, mid corner or at the exit? Also was it through just the tighter corners or through the faster ones as well?
Any info will greatly appreciated.
ps. Do you think that anything can be done to 'fix' that?
Last edited by DavidMa; 10-26-2003 at 02:33 PM.
10-26-2003, 04:43 PM
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I'll see if I can join you Zuffy.
DavidM, we didn't time our laps so can't tell you what we were doing. We were just touching 170 on the straight.
The car just felt better with VDC turned off. IMO VDC comes in too early. Basically it's tuned to safety. Too early is better than too late right?
I found the understeer mostly on turn in. As an indicator a friend came along with his stock MX-5 and was able to carry 10 - 15kph more speed into the corner which of course equates to a better exit speed.
Sway bars may be enough to fix it but better tyres would be the first step.
DavidM, we didn't time our laps so can't tell you what we were doing. We were just touching 170 on the straight.
The car just felt better with VDC turned off. IMO VDC comes in too early. Basically it's tuned to safety. Too early is better than too late right?
I found the understeer mostly on turn in. As an indicator a friend came along with his stock MX-5 and was able to carry 10 - 15kph more speed into the corner which of course equates to a better exit speed.
Sway bars may be enough to fix it but better tyres would be the first step.
10-26-2003, 04:46 PM
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Zuff(y) Id love to get to the track, but, as I said b4, its just that little bit too far to go for the day.
Now, eastern creek is a different story!
As always
H
Now, eastern creek is a different story!
As always
H
Last edited by harryw; 10-26-2003 at 08:43 PM.
10-26-2003, 07:16 PM
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...we didn't time our laps so can't tell you what we were doing. We were just touching 170 on the straight.
Noone brought a stop watch? ;-) Still, 170kph is very respectable there.
The car just felt better with VDC turned off. IMO VDC comes in too early. Basically it's tuned to safety. Too early is better than too late right?
Persoanally, on the track I don't want the VDC at all. On a road, in every day driving it might be a good thing, but never on the track.
I found the understeer mostly on turn in. As an indicator a friend came along with his stock MX-5 and was able to carry 10 - 15kph more speed into the corner which of course equates to a better exit speed.
Wow, that's a pretty big speed differential. You mentioned that the MX5 was stock .... did it also have stock (ie. normal road going) tyres? If it had some R-spec (ie. semi-race) rubber then that helps a lot with the cornering speeds.
Though, 'stock' MX5s are not renowned for the speed that they can carry through the corners .... they are too soft out of the factory. That makes them very communicative and progressive, but ultimately the limits are not that high. Putting stiffer springs/shocks/roll-bars in the MX5 improves their lap times dramatically .... I'm talking like good 2 seconds per lap.
Noone brought a stop watch? ;-) Still, 170kph is very respectable there.
The car just felt better with VDC turned off. IMO VDC comes in too early. Basically it's tuned to safety. Too early is better than too late right?
Persoanally, on the track I don't want the VDC at all. On a road, in every day driving it might be a good thing, but never on the track.
I found the understeer mostly on turn in. As an indicator a friend came along with his stock MX-5 and was able to carry 10 - 15kph more speed into the corner which of course equates to a better exit speed.
Wow, that's a pretty big speed differential. You mentioned that the MX5 was stock .... did it also have stock (ie. normal road going) tyres? If it had some R-spec (ie. semi-race) rubber then that helps a lot with the cornering speeds.
Though, 'stock' MX5s are not renowned for the speed that they can carry through the corners .... they are too soft out of the factory. That makes them very communicative and progressive, but ultimately the limits are not that high. Putting stiffer springs/shocks/roll-bars in the MX5 improves their lap times dramatically .... I'm talking like good 2 seconds per lap.
Last edited by DavidMa; 10-26-2003 at 09:42 PM.
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10-26-2003, 08:39 PM
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We were all driving at the same time so it's hard to time and drive
I turn VDC off on the road if it's dry. Personal preference really. I leave it on for an added margin of error in the wet.
Street tyres on the MX-5. I'm coming from a heavily modified MX-5 myself so I really felt the difference in cornering ability.
I turn VDC off on the road if it's dry. Personal preference really. I leave it on for an added margin of error in the wet.
Street tyres on the MX-5. I'm coming from a heavily modified MX-5 myself so I really felt the difference in cornering ability.
10-27-2003, 05:26 AM
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David M, as I said in another thread, drive the car at 9/10ths and you get understear. This is the first sign that you are near the limits of the car. Push it a little harder and you're into oversteer. At least you have the option of desciding which way you want to exit a corner, via your right foot. Most front wheel drives just give you bags full of understeer.
10-27-2003, 06:36 PM
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I'm coming from a heavily modified MX-5 myself so I really felt the difference in cornering ability
Nice ... what have you had done to it? Modded MX5s can be pretty good track weapons.
...as I said in another thread, drive the car at 9/10ths and you get understear. This is the first sign that you are near the limits of the car. Push it a little harder and you're into oversteer. At least you have the option of desciding which way you want to exit a corner, via your right foot.
If I have that 'option' than I'll be happy. I'm just worried that the car will not give me that option and it will do it's own thing and try and correct my mistakes. Not a bad thing on the road, but on the track I want to be sure that the car will not interfere with anything that I'm doing (whether it's good or bad). That is what worries me here as I'm sure that if the VDC is always on (to some degree) then I don't have 100% control of the car.
Most front wheel drives just give you bags full of understeer
Yes, that's true, but I'm looking at it from a perspective of someone who has a fair bit of experience in S2000, Boxtser, Elise, MR2 and even MX5. So (for me) the front-wheel-drives do not come into into the equation.
Don't forget that the last 1/10th oversteer comes in pretty brutal.
What makes you say that ... have you experienced it yourself? I'm wondering if that's what the magazines say or whether you're speaking from experience. The Elise and S2000 can generate a fair bit of oversteer, but it's very controllable and progressive. Does not mean that it will not 'bite you' if you are too slow to respond, but if you are 'on the ball' then it's actually very enjoable and thrilling.
Nice ... what have you had done to it? Modded MX5s can be pretty good track weapons.
...as I said in another thread, drive the car at 9/10ths and you get understear. This is the first sign that you are near the limits of the car. Push it a little harder and you're into oversteer. At least you have the option of desciding which way you want to exit a corner, via your right foot.
If I have that 'option' than I'll be happy. I'm just worried that the car will not give me that option and it will do it's own thing and try and correct my mistakes. Not a bad thing on the road, but on the track I want to be sure that the car will not interfere with anything that I'm doing (whether it's good or bad). That is what worries me here as I'm sure that if the VDC is always on (to some degree) then I don't have 100% control of the car.
Most front wheel drives just give you bags full of understeer
Yes, that's true, but I'm looking at it from a perspective of someone who has a fair bit of experience in S2000, Boxtser, Elise, MR2 and even MX5. So (for me) the front-wheel-drives do not come into into the equation.
Don't forget that the last 1/10th oversteer comes in pretty brutal.
What makes you say that ... have you experienced it yourself? I'm wondering if that's what the magazines say or whether you're speaking from experience. The Elise and S2000 can generate a fair bit of oversteer, but it's very controllable and progressive. Does not mean that it will not 'bite you' if you are too slow to respond, but if you are 'on the ball' then it's actually very enjoable and thrilling.
10-27-2003, 09:33 PM
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DavidM
I have punted my car around the twisty bends of the Old Pacific Hwy here in Sydney many times. Bends are negotiated at 2x the posted speed recomendation (ie 35km/h = 70km/h, 45km/h = 90km/h). At those speeds, you get a slow and gradual introduction to understeer when you push a little harder. To correct, you just ease back the accelerator pedal, no need to lift off, and the car immediately grips and continues to drive you around the corner. It is all very gentalmanly and no nasty suprises, ie easy for a novice like me to negotiate.
I have had just one experience with oversteer and that was at Wakefield Park, turn 1. I was cruising down the inside of the straight doing a cool down lap, approaching turn 1. Look in the rear vision mirror and a red HSV is barrelling down the outside of the straight. I had 2 options, either stop the car completely on the straight to let the HSV past (yeah right!) or get on the gas and get around turn 1 before the HSV arrived. To achieve that, I had to hussle, so I gassed it up and took the turn from the inside of the straight, requiring more right lock on the steering wheel. That combined with a heavy right foot sent the car into oversteer and it was very sudden. Off course I corrected with a little opposite lock, only to generate oversteer in the opposite direction. As this was combined with lift off the accelerator, I may have gotten some gas off oversteer - not sure. So now I'm correcting to the right again to counter the 2nd oversteer and this time with the brake on (yes I began to experience panic mode as I thought I would turn the car around with a HSV behind me!!!) Finally, the rear end flicked left a little and the car then settled and went straight (phew - no lose and more improtantly no HSV in my boot!). Now David, I am the first to admit that this episode of oversteer was due to me being a boofhead and going too fast into the corner and demanding too much from the front left tyre. I am confident that I could generate a more gradual oversteer reaction from the car with a steady steering angle and slightly heavier right foot, rather than a yank on the steering wheel and heavy right foot. I will try it for you (ok for me really) when we go to Wakfield again next week.
BTW, to get a definative answer on VDC/TC on the Track model (and also oversteer controlability), you need to get a response from Nathan who races his Z.
I have punted my car around the twisty bends of the Old Pacific Hwy here in Sydney many times. Bends are negotiated at 2x the posted speed recomendation (ie 35km/h = 70km/h, 45km/h = 90km/h). At those speeds, you get a slow and gradual introduction to understeer when you push a little harder. To correct, you just ease back the accelerator pedal, no need to lift off, and the car immediately grips and continues to drive you around the corner. It is all very gentalmanly and no nasty suprises, ie easy for a novice like me to negotiate.
I have had just one experience with oversteer and that was at Wakefield Park, turn 1. I was cruising down the inside of the straight doing a cool down lap, approaching turn 1. Look in the rear vision mirror and a red HSV is barrelling down the outside of the straight. I had 2 options, either stop the car completely on the straight to let the HSV past (yeah right!) or get on the gas and get around turn 1 before the HSV arrived. To achieve that, I had to hussle, so I gassed it up and took the turn from the inside of the straight, requiring more right lock on the steering wheel. That combined with a heavy right foot sent the car into oversteer and it was very sudden. Off course I corrected with a little opposite lock, only to generate oversteer in the opposite direction. As this was combined with lift off the accelerator, I may have gotten some gas off oversteer - not sure. So now I'm correcting to the right again to counter the 2nd oversteer and this time with the brake on (yes I began to experience panic mode as I thought I would turn the car around with a HSV behind me!!!) Finally, the rear end flicked left a little and the car then settled and went straight (phew - no lose and more improtantly no HSV in my boot!). Now David, I am the first to admit that this episode of oversteer was due to me being a boofhead and going too fast into the corner and demanding too much from the front left tyre. I am confident that I could generate a more gradual oversteer reaction from the car with a steady steering angle and slightly heavier right foot, rather than a yank on the steering wheel and heavy right foot. I will try it for you (ok for me really) when we go to Wakfield again next week.
BTW, to get a definative answer on VDC/TC on the Track model (and also oversteer controlability), you need to get a response from Nathan who races his Z.
10-27-2003, 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by DavidM
Nice ... what have you had done to it? Modded MX5s can be pretty good track weapons.
Nice ... what have you had done to it? Modded MX5s can be pretty good track weapons.
10-28-2003, 04:29 PM
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BTW, to get a definative answer on VDC/TC on the Track model (and also oversteer controlability), you need to get a response from Nathan who races his Z.
OK, thanks ... how would I contact Nathan?
I don't have it anymore. You can see the overview here.
Very nice ... and Turbo as well.
OK, thanks ... how would I contact Nathan?
I don't have it anymore. You can see the overview here.
Very nice ... and Turbo as well.
10-28-2003, 05:33 PM
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DavidM
Nathan posts here on occasion. I looked at the threads on the aussie site , but I could not see any threads that I remember Nathan responding to, so alas, you may have to wait untill he logs onto this site again to PM him.
Alternatively, you could check the Sydney White and / or Yellow Pages for the name Pilkington. Nathans' father's name is Peter and he runs a mechanical workshop from Rushcutter's Bay. Look up the phone number and contact him that way if you need a response urgently.
Nathan posts here on occasion. I looked at the threads on the aussie site , but I could not see any threads that I remember Nathan responding to, so alas, you may have to wait untill he logs onto this site again to PM him.
Alternatively, you could check the Sydney White and / or Yellow Pages for the name Pilkington. Nathans' father's name is Peter and he runs a mechanical workshop from Rushcutter's Bay. Look up the phone number and contact him that way if you need a response urgently.
10-28-2003, 08:27 PM
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He's located at the white Mechanic shop right beside the Shell petrol station at Rushcutters Bay. It's on your right if you are heading from Kings Cross to Edgecliff (opposite the park and speed camera).
He's very easy going so feel free to pop in there. The guy loves 350zs and knows the engine inside and out.
He's very easy going so feel free to pop in there. The guy loves 350zs and knows the engine inside and out.
10-28-2003, 09:47 PM
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Took the toy to Calder a couple of months ago. Touring model auto. Was doing 1:13 's in the end. Just over 200 kph on the front strait. Probably could have done a few seconds quicker if I hadn't cooked the back brakes - right down to the metal!!! Hadn't been very impressed with the manual/auto 'till I got it on the track. Performed awesomely at high revs. Did feel a tiny bit of understeer goin' in hard into the turns but all in all very balanced.
Just as a side note, did a high speed run out in the country the other day. Didn't quite reach the limiter - had to shut down at 240 because the truck in front of me was much bigger than I was! But the car was still pullin' hard.
Just as a side note, did a high speed run out in the country the other day. Didn't quite reach the limiter - had to shut down at 240 because the truck in front of me was much bigger than I was! But the car was still pullin' hard.
10-29-2003, 02:25 AM
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Thanks guys, but I'm in Melbourne so I'll just have to contact him via this forum. Hopefully he'll appear here soon.
Also, on slightly different topic, can you guys try something for? I was reading more info on all the electronics that are on-board of the 350Z and found a bit which said "electronics throttle shuts down when the brake pedal is applied". Might not sound like big deal to most, but what that means is that you cannot left foot brake to balance the car through faster sweepers (ie. be on power and gently squeeze the brake to transfer weight forward as it will gcreate an effect similar to trhottle lift-off ... and that is not something you want when you're in a fast sweeper). Also I ofter tap the brake pedal with my left foot when barreling down the main straight (of a track) on full throttle ... this is to make sure that the brakes are still there. If this 'system' is there then it will be detrimental to the balance (of the car and lap-times as it will lift the throttle automatically.
So, can someone try this out for me .... just to see if it's there or whether I was reading incorrect information? You don't need to do anything extreme to try this ... just cruise along at 60kph (or any speed) while under constant throttle and then gently press the brake pedal with your left foot. Ideally the revs should stay up and the engine should be fighting agains the brakes. Does it do that, or does it shut down the power while you got your foot on the brake?
Took the toy to Calder a couple of months ago. Touring model auto. Was doing 1:13 's in the end. Just over 200 kph on the front strait.
That's a respectable lap time there .... especially with an auto box. Good stuff.
Also, on slightly different topic, can you guys try something for? I was reading more info on all the electronics that are on-board of the 350Z and found a bit which said "electronics throttle shuts down when the brake pedal is applied". Might not sound like big deal to most, but what that means is that you cannot left foot brake to balance the car through faster sweepers (ie. be on power and gently squeeze the brake to transfer weight forward as it will gcreate an effect similar to trhottle lift-off ... and that is not something you want when you're in a fast sweeper). Also I ofter tap the brake pedal with my left foot when barreling down the main straight (of a track) on full throttle ... this is to make sure that the brakes are still there. If this 'system' is there then it will be detrimental to the balance (of the car and lap-times as it will lift the throttle automatically.
So, can someone try this out for me .... just to see if it's there or whether I was reading incorrect information? You don't need to do anything extreme to try this ... just cruise along at 60kph (or any speed) while under constant throttle and then gently press the brake pedal with your left foot. Ideally the revs should stay up and the engine should be fighting agains the brakes. Does it do that, or does it shut down the power while you got your foot on the brake?
Took the toy to Calder a couple of months ago. Touring model auto. Was doing 1:13 's in the end. Just over 200 kph on the front strait.
That's a respectable lap time there .... especially with an auto box. Good stuff.
Last edited by DavidM; 10-29-2003 at 02:28 AM.
10-29-2003, 06:47 AM
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Re: throttle shut down while braking. Haven't tried it yet but I have done some power braking from a stand still. No problem to light up the tires with the brake pedal down.