jmark

iTrader: (1)

I hear it is a good one! TC plays a big part in his 350Z!

Sun., Nov. 28, 1:00 PM Touring 2

John

iTrader: (17)

Yep, don't miss the carnage!

jmark

iTrader: (1)

Bump.

Jason H

iTrader: (5)

You guys that watched the T2 race on Speed, what did you think of the Z's performance?

Looked to me like the Z is way down on power when compared with the Caddie and SRT-4 down the straights. Although, had TC kept his cool, we might have seen a Z on the podium??

Any new Zs for T2 next year??

jmark

iTrader: (1)

Def down on power. Seemed to make up time in the twisties and under braking. I think the Z has more potential with the new suspension pieces which they got late last season. Z seemed more stable (leaned less) than the rest of the cars.

GaryM05

I agree with JMark...way down on power, but with TC at the wheel, it seemed to be able to take a lot back under braking and cornering. T2 seems like it can be a really enjoyable, competitive class at the front if the Caddies can be kept in check.

Another thing I noticed while watching the race was how much smaller the Z looked than the Neon when the 2 were racing before their off. Obviously the Neon is a quick machine with lots of power, but it looked like a boat next to that yellow Z!

zxsaint

Missed it! Anyone record it to PC? Are there going to be any reruns?

jmark

iTrader: (1)

They usually replay them around Christmas.

John

iTrader: (17)

I bet Dodge is pretty embarassed by the carelessness of both of their drivers Grahovec and Fernandez. It's quite fortunate that Sandbridge Jr. didn't sustain a major injury, because that was one of the worst wrecks I've seen in Runoff history in a long time.

jmark

iTrader: (1)

The SRT4 drivers were OUT OF CONTROL. SCCA needs to regulate the boost somehow or the turbo will kill T2. The two factory SRT4's were obviously running tremendous boost compared to the other Neons.

GaryM05

I agree...that was kind of embarrassing to watch. I don't mind a little contact now and then (sometimes that just happens,) but there was too much bodyslamming going on out there for anyone's own good. If it matters, Fernandez was penalized 2 positions after the race for rough driving (TC was penalized 1 position for the same thing.) I'm surprised that Grahovec didn't receive any penalties for being an idiot.

For an in-pack review of the race (although not much about the action we've been talking about) check out this post:

http://forums.audiworld.com/rockymtn/msgs/26047.phtml

This was written by an RMDiv member who ran one of the 'other' SRT-4s in the race. It's a good read about a week in the life of a Runoffs competitor.

grifferjr

i have very limited knowledge here but after watching the race on SPEED i was amazed at a couple of things.

1) How far underpowered the Z seemed to be when compared with the cadilac. and how the cadillac handled the turns. yeah i know it rolled a lot but through most of them it was doing fine. when it had trouble was in the infield region when the turns were one after another.

2)how kickass that SRT4 was: it pains me to say that but its the truth. the main thing that the SRT4 had going against it was the dumbass driver behind the wheel. guy was crazy.

3)SRT4 vs Z: Z looks like it loses in almost every category. at least when compared to the cadillac the Z can say that it can catch up in the turns, but when compared to a more equal weighted car, the SRT4, it not only can corner more closely to the Z but also seemed to have more power.

final thought is one thing: I am going to this next year. My uncle has season tix to mid ohio and he has been trying to get me to go every year. i can now say that I am in.

Jason H

iTrader: (5)

yeah, the new linear springs and sway bars that were approved are making a noticeable difference under cornering and braking. Still...the Caddie and SRT-4 made it look easy to pull away...and not just a car length or two, but more like 5 or 6. That's a lot to make up under braking lap after lap after lap. When I've raced against the Caddies, the thing that is so frustrating (besides them pulling away on the straights) is they have the horsepower to recover from their mistakes.

BTW, did anyone watch the in-board camera in Mark Sandridge's Caddie? I know the camera doesn't do it justice, but he didn't seem to be wrestling with that car at all?? I thought those things were a suposed to be a beast to drive and didn't handle well at all??

Scott Webb

I noticed that, too, and what I consider to be poor hand positioning on the steering wheel. Perhaps Mark is simply very smooth and driving a car with an incredible setup, but it did seem to be pretty darn easy to drive. Of course he's a two-time national champion, and I've yet to crack the top 5 at the Runoffs!

Jason H

iTrader: (5)

Maybe that's the secret?? We must be trying to hard

dkmura

iTrader: (64)

I've read this thread with interest, after watching the T2 race on Speed Channel. First and foremost, it's important to understand that SCCA doesn't actually guarantee competitiveness once a car is classed. Case in point: besides TC, there were two other Zs in this race. The Redline Z that finished 13th was driven by Oregon's Scott Culberson. Culberson sat on the GT4 pole at the Runoffs a few years ago and was always a threat to win. The other was Jim Rauck's Daytona Blue Z (which I believe was originally a Nissan promo model that appeared in the 'Fast and Furious II'). Jim was a top GT5 competitor who knows Mid-Ohio intimately. My point is that both of these Nissan drivers are skilled and seasoned competitors with EXTENSIVE resources (onboard telemetry, good crews and plenty of go-fast parts). Neither of these Zs were really in the hunt during the race itself. More telling was that neither Culbertson or Rauch were in the top ten all week (practice, qualifying or race) and I submit this is a statistic that says volumes about the Zs speed potential- particularly considering the backgrounds of both guys.

TC puts in a superior performance in just about every category he races in. You know that his car has been carefully maximized in every way possible (that includes making it through the tech shed). Despite losing his temper (not to say it wasn't justified), it says something to me when, in comparison with the F-bodies and Caddies, almost all his gains were made up under braking and in the twisties! The Z is probably the best handling car out there, but HP and big tires make up for a lot of sins. BTW- look at that in-car video of Mark Sandridge again. He had an awful lot of understeer to deal with, but as others have pointed out, massive power and R-compound tires combine to make it look pretty good. Also, the CTS-V is so friggn' BIG that it's difficult to get alongside with, much less make a clean pass on! Mark's personal driving style is to shuffle the wheel between his hands, while maintaining that 3 and 9 o'clock positioning on the wheel with his hands.

As for the SRT-4s, I agree with most here who felt the contact was excessive and the penalties light. But I doubt that the two factory guys are sweating it much- they wanted to demonstrate that the cars could run up front, no matter the cost.

Finally, I'd like to be more positive about the future of the Z in T2, but I don't see it in the cards. For '05, the E46 M3, Subaru WRX STi and the Mitsu Evo VIII get moved into the class. All will be threats in this diverse and varied class, but I think the turbo cars with 4WD have the most potential. Why? Power + four large contact patches = sizable advantage in my experience. Second, SCCA has a limited ability to police boost in these classes and those with deep pockets (which you need to compete up front in this class) won't be afraid to dial it up. The Caddy will continue to be quick, but I think tire wear (ever think of the cost of buying three sets of R-compound rubber for a Runoffs week?) is most definately a factor in a race with NO cautions. Jordon Sandridge's accident and subsequent yellow flag period may have been the edge that allowed his dad to win. The quote from the Sandridge team that, "he took one for the team", may have been the most insightful sound bite all weekend!

I hope I'm proved wrong about the 350Z's future in T2. For all those T2 Z pilots out there, may the latest upgrades put you squarely in the thick of the action!

Jason H

iTrader: (5)

Good summary above. I would agree that the Z is one of the best handling cars in T2, but unless SCCA does something to give us more horsepower or gearing, you're right, we're going to have a hellva time against the EVO, STI, and E46M3..not to mention another year of a developed Caddie and SRT-4s. I have a bone stock EVO street car, and I think it can take my T2 preped Z on the track...crank up the boost, add ECU and tires and now the Z will be lucky to keep up.

That said, I still look forward to racing T2 this year even if the Z turns into the underdog. It's the sweetest looking car out there and they can't take that away from us!!

Scott Webb

It sure seems to me that you could get in trouble quickly when things go awry (i.e. requiring a large dose of opposite lock) without knowing where TDC is for the steering wheel. But as I said before, it works for Mark.

I knew the Evo in the garage might come in handy!

ALong

iTrader: (12)

DK Mura,
You are correct when you state that SCCA does not guarentee the competitiveness of any vehichle, but they try to work with each manufacture to make their cars competitive, especially in the Touring and Showroom stock classes.

As far as basing the performance potential of the 350Z on Scotty Culbertsons and Jim Raucks performance, lets just say that putting a car on pole in GT4 and or being competitive in GT5 is far easier than being competitive in T2. Both of those classes have lack of depth of talent outside the top 5 and are definately the type of classes where money buys you performance, unlike T2 where you are limited in what you can do to the car and the driver plays a bigger part. Scotty has been running the 350Z for 2 seasons and has yet to even win a SCCA National race let alone do well at the Runoffs....I think TC's performance is more in line with what the 350Z can do with a good driver behind the wheel.

I wouldnt discount the Z yet in T2. Yes, the Subaru and Mitsubishi are going to be in the class next year but they will both weight more and have a restrictor plate placed on them. I have already put my request into SCCA to mandate specific maximum boost levels on each Turbo car, with a little luck the Comp Board will pass it.

After watching the race on TV it is pretty obvious that the factory Dodge SRT4's were running a massive ammount of boost. They were pulling away from everything on the track, and Toby Gravohec even outdragged the pole sitting Caddillac into the first corner. My guess is they were putting out 300-330hp with a similar ammount of torque. Both of these cars are backdoor "factory" cars and I am sure that after the Runoffs they had to throw away both motors.....

I am sure I am not the only T2 competitor that has sent in a request to the Comp Board to put throttle restrictors on the Cadillac, the Dodge and the incoming Subaru and Mitsubishi, and to limit the boost levels on the Turbo Cars.

Jason H, make sure you write a letter also! and get BJ to send in one as well.

pulpz2

I'm a newbie to the SCCA racing seen. I was at Mid Ohio this year and saw the T2 race. It was definitely exciting to say the least. Especially seeing the Z on the track knowing I owned one.

My question is how modified is the T2 version respect to showroom stock?