stumpmj

iTrader: (1)

I just got done with an event using the Axis Ultimates in the back and I was pretty pleased with them. I got two full days (a total of about 3.5-4 hours of track time) on the pads at gingerman and they looked ready for at least one more event. As a comparison, I was getting about half the life out of Hawk HPS pads.

As another comparison, I did an event at Grattan today with Panther+ pads in back (and XP10's up front which were great, I'll post a review seperatly) and the pads are about as worn as they were after two days on the Axis pads. I think I'm going to just run the Axis pads in back and deal with the fade. Better options are just too expensive for my taste.

amolaver

iTrader: (1)

well that is certainly good news

For $40/set, unless the HT10 pans out, this is looking to be the best way going.

Anyone considering running the oversize disc kit that one of the vendors is offering (forget the name at the moment - Avalon?)? It retains stock calipers, but gives you a 13"(?) disc. They've got it for the front and back. I wouldn't trust it up front (since the disc can't be made any wider, and the caliper is still too small), but out back - might be a good choice. My only real question is will the longer lever that the caliper now has significantly impact brake bias... Certainly should drop the temps.

knight_white99

iTrader: (5)

I'm running the HT-10's up front in my Stop Tech 13" BBK and currently Hawk HPS (like stumpmj) in the stock rear calipers. But I switched to running Stillen slotted rear rotors. These seemed to help a lot. I am not getting any fade so far. The Hawks are lasting fairly well too. I am planning to try some EBC RedStuff next track day (May 6th), so I'll let you know how that goes. I will also be running R compound tires (265/35-18s) for the first time, so that might have an impact on lap times too. Racin (member) thinks I am already pushing the limits on the HPS pads (and he might be right). If I could get some HT-10s in the rear to match the fronts, that sounds like an ideal solution.

Those Axxis Ultimates sure sound like they will be tough to beat for the price though (double the pad life of Hawk HPS for only $40??? - where can I get some???), so long as they aren't hard on the rotors and don't fade. I agree hands down with stumpmj - sure beats $2K for the ST rears.

Amolaver, can you tell us more about those 13" rears with stock calipers? Is that possible? They must have to relocate the caliper on some bracket to make that work. Anyone have a web site link?

dnguyent

iTrader: (5)

On the Zeckhausen Racing website, it indicates that the rear Axxis Ultimates are "Ctec Organic OEM type". The way I understand this statement is that it's made of something different than the front pads, and it's similar to the OEM rear pads. Is that why they're so inexpensive?

http://www.zeckhausen.com/Nissan/350Z.htm

amolaver

iTrader: (1)

Avalon is the vendor, and they don't have the rear kit posted on their site yet. I communicated with them at one point a few weeks ago, and they said it would added to the site 'soon'. Anyway. Lower-left corner of this page:

http://gallery.bcentral.com/GID51101...es.aspx?Page=5

..is the front kit.

This is the direct link to the front kit:

http://gallery.bcentral.com/GID51101...ck-Models.aspx

Yes - it does use a stand-off to move the caliper further away from the hub as you'd expect. This may be a good middle ground to buying the stoptech kit for the back, although frankly I think $1K is a lot for a pair of rotors and a bracket...

ahm

dnguyent

iTrader: (5)

My opinion on this front only kit is definitely more front bias. Unless they come up with a rear kit that evens out the balance, I would expect poorer braking distance. $1k does seem like a lot for a pair of rotors and a bracket. I'd definitely look for an used set of Brembos or a front Stoptech kit for around $2k instead of running that stand-off kit.

amolaver

iTrader: (1)

concur 100% re: the front only kit. Since I already have a stoptech 13" kit up front (and would have chosen that over this option regardless of the price difference) that's not really what I meant by posting it. It was really just to show the concept in the context of the rear kit. Avalon I believe claims the rear is available, just not posted on the site. If this kit was closer to $500, I'd be a lot more inclined to try it. With the positive results stumpmj had with the ultimates out back, I'm going to give that a shot and see how they hold up. If I can really get 4 full days out of a rear set (especially @ $40/set), I'll probably just leave them as is.

Of course, I plan on going to signficantly larger R-compounds this year, and believe I'll be revisiting this issue at that point - perhaps trying the Avalon rear kit then. I'm also looking at adding some ducting to the fronts. An appropriate length of tube is like $50-$75, so just need to figure out how to secure the front (should be pretty easy) and at the hub (probably not quite as easy). The ducting kits for $250-300 are just too much.

ahm

dnguyent

iTrader: (5)

OK, I'm with you now. If you can buy the front and rear extender kit, then I think balance can be maintained as long as the relative increase in radial dimension is maintained.

But, if you install the rear extender kit with the 332mm stoptech kit that you have now, you'd end up with more rear bias, right? The stoptech kit had been designed for the unmolested OEM rear brakes. I guess you could increase the stoptech piston sizes, but then you got to look into the capacity of your master cylinder to see if it can handle the added fluid movement. So, if you go that route, you'll have to consider the cost of modifying your stoptech calipers. I don't know what it costs to get other piston sizes.

anotheraznguy

iTrader: (14)

endless CCX brake pads.. they are great..

stumpmj

iTrader: (1)

How much and how many events can you get out of them? I tried a set of endless pads(I don't remember which model), but they didn't have nearly as much bite as anyhting else I tried so I took them off.

I'll be ordering another set of Axxis Ultimates soon to make sure I'm ready for my next track day. BTW, XP-10s rule for the Stoptech calipers. So much bite.... no fade...

amolaver

iTrader: (1)

While I think as a generalization you are right, there are a number of factors in play here. For example, if I stiffen the suspension, particularly if I stiffen the front more than the rear, there will be less effective weight transfer under braking, thereby allowing more rear bias w/o ill effect. Changing tire stagger significantly (or eliminating it completely) should also manipulate the potential bias options. Alignment options (applying more negative camber up front may be cause to increase rear bias) also play a part.

In the grand scheme, given 4 channel ABS, I'm inclined to give the avalon rear kit a shot if only to provide a larger heat sink. Half of me says that it will just take longer to reach the same equilibrium temperature (whether the pads stay in the game at that point is up to their composition), the other half says perhaps this could lower the peak temps, keeping the more moderate compounds temperatures in check, perhaps even extending their life, but more hopefully, keep their effectiveness up (instead of temperature-related fade). Its a crap shoot as far as I'm concerned. I'm leery of dropping $1K on a such a gamble, but I fear with the addition of R-compounds to my repertoire, barring finding a rear set of Track Brembo's to strap on, the options are limited.

Anybody got a set of rear brembo's they want to part with?

ahm

EnthuZ

iTrader: (2)

No, I won't let you have my rear Brembo's!

I just added the Stoptech 2 piece rear rotors to match my front 13.1" Stoptechs, and, while only a smidge thinner than the 12.7" rear Stoptech kit, I couldn't be happier!

anotheraznguy

iTrader: (14)

the endless ccx pads are track only..
and they have worked for me for about 5 events so far.. mainly open track.
i am running the 1 piston sliding calipers.
believe you me, there are soo many endless pads it gets confusing..
but i've tried the vn's that i run daily on the track and they were not the best.

amolaver

iTrader: (1)

Eat me EnthuZ Just because you're one of the lucky ones who got a brembo setup doesn't mean you should rub it in our faces. I tried, but was unsuccesfull, so settled for the 13" stoptech front kit. So now we have to figure out a way to make the back work... Stupid Nissan and their crappy non-Track brakes!

I had talked to John at Summit last year, and I think he had just added the 2 piece rotors. I believe he really liked them, but they were expensive as heck.

ahm

EnthuZ

iTrader: (2)

Sorry, your not my type!

I went through all this hell you guys are having, and I got lucky. Unfortunately, I think you are wasting your time trying to get the POS rear brakes to WORK....Live maybe, but work?

Would I spend $2200 to save <$600 per year, I don't know. Since I bleed after each event I run, swapping rear pads every other time wasn't THAT much of a hassel.

My current delima is deciding weather to upgrade to PF pads to get awesome braking, or stay with what has worked so far......Carbotech Panther + or XP's. I'm not yet running R compounds.

amolaver

iTrader: (1)

You're right though - I wish I had found a set of brembos. But I didn't, so now I'm trying to figure out a way to make do. It sounds like at first blush, the axxis ultimates are a step in the right direction. If they hold up as well for me as they did for stumpmj, that might be enough. 'course, once the r-compounds show up, i'm guessing i'll be fighting this battle again. and at that point, i think i'm either looking for just a rear set of brembo's (right, that ought be easy to find), or give the avalon kit a shot.

per my earlier note regarding all the factors that can/will affect the apparent brake bias, there is at least one more important factor - ABS. i still run it on the track, and any gross bias problems should at least be noticeable by its actuation before something bad happens - obviously, any significant change in your brake situation would merit cautious approach to your limits to discover the changes in the cars dynamics. i don't actually think the avalon kit will drastically change my bias situation tremendously, and here's why:

1) current tires - azenis, 225/45-17, 245/45-17
2) current alignment - nissan standard - had front tires replaced, where they realigned the car back to specs
3) stoptech 13" kit up front running pagid blacks, HPS out back
4) currently, the car is front biased - i have abs actuation in front and the rears do not

I'm going to be running R-compounds, but i'll either reduce the stagger to 10mm, or eliminate entirely. i'm leaning towards eliminating it entirely for this purpose. obviously, grip all around goes up, but i'll have proportionately more grip up front than i do now. i believe i will see that front brake bias eliminated by this. dialing in more negative camber up front (probably going to go for -1.5 or -2 static) should set me back a little, but i don't know how much. i don't think it will make a significant change. at this point, adding the avalon kit will likely put me back where i am currently - still mildly front-biased, but not markedly different. this mild front bias is probably a good thing. even with the abs, its actuation is not exactly butter smooth, and even a momentary lock in the back (say, trail braking into a high speed but decreasing radius bend) would send the pucker factor to the moon. this is supposed to be fun, remember

i love this stuff!

ahm

daveh

iTrader: (9)

Update on the rabyestos st-43's. I only ran them in the rear because I still have a couple days left on my R4 pads up front and I wanted to test out their heat capacity in the rears before plunking down the cash on the fronts.

First for the good news. They definately seem like they will last more than 1-2 days! I spent yesterday at thunderhill yesterday and they held up very very well. Granted t-hill is not a hard braking track but the brakes didn't wear very much in comparison to the R4. The bite is harder than my R4's and they have nice release characteristics. I actually could tell the difference with the st43's only in the rear. The abs kicked in first in the rears a couple of times because they have so much more torque. Rotor wear was acceptable. They were very scoring when cold (on the way to the track), but on the track they seemed as rotor friendly as any other full on track pad.

Now for the bad news: These pads took so much heat my rubber boots melted. Fixing one problem leads to another.

I will probably get the raybestos up front shortly and run them all around.

think nissan might warranty my rubber boots or would I be wasting my time?

dnguyent

iTrader: (5)

It seems that cobaltfriction has come out with a pad for the non-brembo rears (GT-Sport). I've been waiting for them to come out with something to match the Spec VR's I run with the front stoptechs. I'll be trying them out in the future, but I have a brand new set of Axxis Ultimates for the rear that I need to wear through first.

Cobalt Friction stated that quite a few club racers use the SpecVR and GT-Sport combination.




http://www.cobaltfriction.com/Produc...nds=3&x=17&y=6

mberthia

iTrader: (5)

Someone earlier mentioned that the Hawk blue were not high on the list of pads to try out. Can anyone tell me why/what's wrong with the blue compound. I was considering trying it for my next weekend at Gingerman.

Thanks

daveh

iTrader: (9)

It's all a matter of preference. Some people still prefer the way they feel. One thing that everyone will agree on is they will chew your rotors very fast. Especially when cold (so driving them to and from the track is not an option).

You're on the right track though by looking for a dedicated track pad. I still don't know why people are bothering with the "do it all pads". It doesn't take me more than 30 minutes to change all 4 tires and brakes before a track day. It also gives me an opportunity to take a close look at the car to make sure everthing is ok.
In the long run you are saving money with a track pad because it lasts longer. Oh yes and you will stop better too.

I'm on my 6th track day with my rabyestos and I even though I spent $350 for all 4 they are going to last me at least 14 days (10 days for the rears). That beats paying $40 for a pad that will fade in 10 minutes and crumble to dust before lunch.