So I was out at Willow Springs on Saturday...entering turn 8 at 120mph give or take...turn 8 is a very long sweeper with some bumps. I'm pretty sure that I can take it flat with my new Truechoice/Unitech suspension, but I don't think my pair is big enough. Speaking with the guys at Unitech, it seems like some downforce would be the only thing to give me signifcantly more stick (and confidence) through that turn. There are a few others on the tracks I drive as well...Turn 1 at Cal Speedway comes to mind.

So, does anyone know of a wing for this car that actually provides proven and significant downforce? I detest the thought of a big goofy wing on my car, but I really would love some actual aero stick on the car if I can get it. I know the market is flooded with useless wings that do nothing (other than destroy the car's looks), but does an aerodynamically legit one exist? Thanks.

 

not really a direct answer, but just because... the folks at flyinmiata ended up adding a wing for downforce on their one lap car. keith is super-active on the miata listserv, and would likely be decent resource to ask how they went about choosing one for trackdog.

how important is looks? while i'm interested in the same, i don't really want to bother unless its adjustable. at a place like vir full, top speed (NA) approaches 150+. can't wait to see what it is turboed. point being - certain places you may want lots of downforce, others minimal.

ahm

 

I bought a wing for downforce as well. The way I went about it was to choose a knockoff of a wing which I new for certain had been wind tunnel tested. I chose a wing from another car whose manufacture includes it from the factory. Yes, it has not been wind tunnel tested on my car, but the car that its from can often be mistaken for our cars. ;-)

So, that is one way to go about it. Also, I know the C-West stuff get tested too. You might look into their wing or a knock off. Until someone does wind tunnel tests and decides to share, I'm not sure we are going to get much good info. Good topic.

BTW, it may look goofy, but it does give you more confidence in those higher speed turns. I'd prefer not to post it, because of the feedback. But if you want I can email you. PM me or geoffbrown@comcast.net.

 

As you approach the limit in turn 8 is the car trying to oversteer? I'm no aero expert, but it would seem to me that you should be careful about upsetting the balance of the car by adding a device to just one end. I'm watching the SPEED Touring race from Mid-Ohio right now (where Randy Pobst was careful to mention his StopTech brakes!), and while all the cars have rear wings (mandated for appearance?), they also have front spoilers/splitters to maintain front/rear balance. I've also noticed that some of the wing angles are such that you wonder if they provide any downforce at all.

I would imagine that very few aero kit/wing manufacturers actually test their products in a wind tunnel (very expensive), and even if they do, testing it with the actual body shape of the Z would be important for the data to be meaningful. There is a lot of "wind tunnel of the mind" out there, even in racing.

Eliminating lift could be something to consider, and the factory spoiler is designed to do just that, if I'm not mistaken.

Experience will be a great way to develop the confidence to run flat through turn 8 (if that's possible in your car).

 

sorry, not related... but can you elaborate more on your koni suspensions?

 

I also encounter a few high speed corners, and I found this wing....OK, a bit "Bowl Of Rice", I know. But it looks like the JPGT wing, & it's adjustable!

In lieu of wind tunnel testing, maybe a rear suspension motion sensor hooked up to a data logger would provide real data. I was going to look into this till my data logger connection proved himself a fraud.

http://www.motoriced.com/html/s-exorcist.html

 

most of those 3D GT wing will provide downforce, all you want is adjustability and 3D GT wing.
how much downforce is gonna depends on the angle you adjust it, as enthuZ says, a datalogger can really help in this case.

 

A wing set flat can provide downforce simply from it's shape, if it is done correctly. More angle produces more downforce, but more drag as well.

Jeff, you may want to re-consider the wing for some of the reasons Scott Webb mentioned. Balance is important everywhere, but also, you may produce more drag through the rest of the course than it is worth. It may be quicker through 8, and slower everywhere else due to balance and aero drag.

If you are set on a wing, the Crawford wing that is used by the GT teams in the Rolex series will certainly work, but you'll have to develop the mounts. If you can wait a bit, I will probably have mounts available before the end of summer.

Just remember that you can really screw a car up with aero...

 

Thanks for the input guys. Jackson of Unitech also mentioned the Crawford GT Wing to me as well Nick. He's working on a front bumper/splitter, which will be mated up to that wing for the Rolex Z. I was just wondering if anyone else had tried anything yet. I've done some initial research, and I do realize the potential to screw the car up with aero. I also realize that the wing will be a tradeoff everywhere but the high speed turns.

Scott...it's not even that I need downforce, but the lift is pretty bad on this car. At the beginning of the day, the car was a little nervous. I did some minor compression adjustments per Jackson, and it settled down very nicely. I also had the same issue in turn #2. It's a fourth gear sweeper. I know the car can go through both turns flat out. I was very close to doing so in #2 (and not all that close in #8), but I just got scared. The car didn't really feel like it was on the verge of stepping out, but I would just like to feel a little more planted on the back. Fortunately, the new suspension sucks up the bumps, so the car didn't get upset it all. But...it still feels a bit light in the **** when you're really humming.

Based on the legwork done by the S2000 guys I usually go to the track with though, it seems like the tradeoff of the wing is worth the time lost on the straights. In the end, they're seeing significantly better lap times overall. That said, I also realize that the S2k and the Z are vastly different cars. It just seems like this is a deficiency of the Z that hasn't really been explored on the message boards. I think as we see more and more Z's on the track, something will surface. I was just wondering if something slipped by my radar though. Thanks.

 

i doubt GT wing will help on our car as much as s2ks..
s2ks rear is very loose.
though the 3 tracks near me doesnt have those high speed conners like you do, (the fastest one is 3rd gear) it could be a total different story when its 1 gear higher.
is your new suspension referring to the unitech koni ?
edit: actually there's a 4th gear small conner that i wont consider any help with gt wing will help

 

NISMO made a difference on my car. Helped at CA Speedway to ~145MPH.
But, you're gonna want something adjustable, for sure...

 

What about the other Nismo wing made for the Z in Japan. Expensive but must have some thought into it for aerodynamics.

 

I would suggest the rear wing, but a front air dam too. I made a 4" front air dam out of aluminum and the difference was AMAZING, when I did that along with a rear wing. At Phoenix International Raceway I gained ~10mph cornering speed through the oval section (uses NASCAR 3-4 of the oval, as part of the roadcourse) as well as significantly greater entry speeds in high speed corners (above 80mph).

In addition, the loose floaty feeling I got at high, constant cornering speeds was eliminated. Now the car is stuck and the transition from grip into under steer is clear as day, so it's easier to drive faster. Before the Aero work my car just felt loose and unpredictable.. downright scary at times. The gain at Willow's turn 8 should be so big, it'll offset any straight line loss by far. You'll see it in 2 and 9 as well.

FWIW, this was on my 240SX track car, not the Z. Should apply well to the Z too. I am now a strong advocate of aero work after feeling the difference it made. Lap times (at PIR) went from mid 1:14s on average, to mid 1:13s.

 

The Ings N1 and C-West N1 bodykits were developed for the Super Taikyu race series in Japan. Both were developed in the windtunnel for maximum downforce with minimum drag. I would check out both of these bodykits, but you will need the front bumper/spoiler along with the rear wing for it to work correctly (ie: to get the correct aero balance). If you just splap a wing on your car you will find the car understeers more...

 

We tested a GT3 RS rear wing on our GAC car last week at Mid Ohio. Didnt really do anything. We went just as fast without it as we did with it. Anything that was gained in cornering...was lost on the straight.

 

Doesn't the track model come with some pieces that supposedly reduce lift? Rear diffusers or something?
If you don't have a track model that might be something to look into.
My car is also unsteady at high speeds, but I'm attributing it to the stock shocks.

 

I ran my car in several open road races in Nevada at 130+ speeds for many miles. My car is a ROCK at those speeds. Totally stable. I have aftermarket shocks and sway now, but for two races I had stock suspension and stock wheels and tires. I do have the factory aero package though (front and rear spoilers and rear under body plastic pieces to smooth air flow).