BeerViper

Hey guys ... looking for some advise here ...

I picked up a set of SS Sport Lines from Grubbs and had them installed last night at GS Motosports (here in North Texas). I brought along a liter of ATE Super Blue high temp brake fluid to bleed all four OEM BREMBO calipers through after changing out the lines.

We ended up using the full liter of fluid to bleed the lines and make sure there was no air. The car stops well but the biggest thing I notice is that the pedal height is much lower than it was.

What can I do to get the pedal height back up if I'm sure there is no air in the lines? I have a track event this weekend at the Motorsport Ranch in Cresson TX which is why I wanted to get the lines and fluid done ... hopefully I don't have anything to worry about!

TIA
-Jon

StaticCling

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like something is wrong, i.e. air in the lines. How low is the pedal compared to before? Can you pull the pedal back to the original position? Does it get stuck once pushed in?

If this really is not the problem, and the amount you want to move the pedal up is not by much. You can use the same instructions for moving the clutch pedal engament for moving the brake pedal. Do a search for 'high clutch engagement' or something like that.

BeerViper

Air in the lines will give you a soft pedal because the air is compressable. My pedal just doesn't engage the actual braking until much closer to the floor. Once you hit the actual engagement point for the brakes it grabs pretty hard.

Adjusting the brake pedal is much different than the clutch pedal. Typically the engagement point of the brake pedal is determined by the amount of brake pad, thickness of your rotors, available fluid in the brake reservoir, etc.

Thanks for the comments..

GaryM05

It sounds like the pedal at rest is at the same height as it was before...it's just that you have to push it further to the floor before the brakes grab. Is this the case? If so, you could have pad knockback (aka hub flex):

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_knockback.shtml

Is your low pedal consistent, or do you only feel this after cornering? A quick test is to take the car out and see if the first stop in a straight line exhibits the low pedal, but if subsequent stops in a straight line (with no turns taken between them) give you the high/hard pedal feel that you're looking for. If this is what you have, then you're certainly not the first.

It's odd that you only experienced it after the line install and fluid bleed...is the fluid level in the master cylinder low? Could you have a leak somewhere...once you push the pedal to the floor, does continued pressure on the pedal continue to push it lower, or does it have a definite stopping point?

scubasteve

iTrader: (6)

Frustrating, isn't it??
First, check that the brakes were bled in the proper sequence. The system in this car is picky. I know others have bled the traditional furthest to the closest to the MC, but the manual suggests otherwise. If I remember correctly, it is LR, RF, RR, LF. I could be wrong, so check...I have not been to the track in a while so no need to bleed brakes. Also, it is very easy to get air in the MC if you don't pay attention, so I would just run more fluid through the system and watch the bubbles flow. Afterwards, go for a run. I don't think you would notice the pad knockback right away. Some people only experience it when in a negative acceleration with high braking force applied. That's what I would do at least.

Good luck,
Steve

EnthuZ

iTrader: (2)

My $0.02. You opened all 4 corners of your brake system switching lines, and ONLY used 1 bottle of brake fluid to bleed? I suggest you buy 3 more bottles and continue bleeding. You might not need all 3 to remove air, but you will need to re-bleed after your track event.

BeerViper

Well I brought it to my dealer since I didn't have time to do it myself or go back to the shop that installed the SS lines. The dealer used the correct bleed sequence but also has the pressurized bleeder that "pulls" the fluid through the lines.
All was good with a nice high pedal after that. Unfortunately my track event was rained out on Saturday so it didn't even really matter!!

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions!

BA Cutler

This is the unit I have, it works great:

http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?&SKU=85700

They're are local, so very easy for me to use.

BC

BeerViper

BA Cutler, thanks ... that is exactly what I need so I don't have to keep paying the dealer to do this!!!

I've seen some other bleeder "helpers" posted here but not sure if they are like this one that can be used without a compressor.

BA Cutler

It's simple in its design, has large capacity. Pump it up a few times and it's ready to go. I actually had the one that runs off the compressor and went back to this one.

BC

screener

iTrader: (10)

Takes a little while longer but I always gravity bleed in proper sequence.Works out great everytime.

BeerViper

So you had the one that ran off the compressor to create vacuum but you like the manual one better? I've been wanting to get a compressor for a long time anyways so I was considering getting one like they have at the stealership that uses the compressor. What's the difference between them and why do you like the manual one better?

streetracer

iTrader: (1)

That has happened to me before. The problem is that they did not bleed the brakes from the inside of the caliper too. There should be two bleedings for each caliper. One from the front part facing the outside of the car on one from the inside of the caliper facing the car. Make sure you follow the sequence and the master is full while bleeding. Good luck.

BA Cutler

BeerViper,

I can only comment on the compressor powered unit that Griot's used to sell, I'm sure there are others that allow better control... but that was my major problem with the one I had. It worked too good; too much suction. The pump unit seemed to do the same job, with more control and less set-up time (messing with the compressor and hose, etc.), and had more capacity (though the compressor driven unit has enough capacity for most jobs).

These things blow away other methods for bleeding, they'll draw with enough energy to pull fluid from every area within the system.

Oh, and they have the bottle to keep the master cylinder filled automatically.

BC

GaryM05

Another advantage to the pump bleeder is that you can take it to the track with you and use it there if necessary. Can't do that with a compressor.

scubasteve

iTrader: (6)

I really like that bleeeeder system. I have been looking for a system like this and this one looks very nice. Thanks for the link.

-Steve

BeerViper

Thanks again BA Cutler, I will definitely be picking one of these up!

daveh

iTrader: (9)

So this pulls fluid from the caliper as opposed to the motive power bleeder that pressurizes the system? Does it work as well as the traditional 2 person method? I always seem to get the best pedal feeling after doing it the old fashioned way.


thanks,
Dave

dnguyent

iTrader: (5)

I do it the old fashioned way too. I ask my wife to put on her summer dress, high heel pumps, and push the brake pedal until I tell her to stop. I've never had problems. Once, I even forgot to check the master cylinder reservoir, and drained too much from it. I introduced a bunch of air bubbles into the system. Well, after redoing it the old fashioned way, it's back to rock solid pedals.

scubasteve

iTrader: (6)

For a portable unit and only 70 bucks...it's worth a try. When things slow down here in school in a couple of months I'll be hitting the tracks again and looking for this. I have my wife to help me, but that only goes so far. A guy thing I guess. I'll order it and post my impressions in the coming weeks.

Even with two people, I hate always going back and forth between the hood, the caliper, and the bottle of brake fluid that fills up too quickly.

Because the system creates a vacuum and fluid is not compressable, it should be the equivalent of using the brake pumping method. I think it may be better because you use a constant pressure exerted on the system instead of several compressions of the pedal and then opening a bleed screw which could introduce air into the system. Anyway, it's worth a shot.