Got Harness Bar need Belts
11-25-2006, 12:28 PM
#21
!!HR TT!!
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Originally Posted by Eagle1
It simply is the orientation of the draw on the strap tighten function.
A matter of preference, and practicality.
If YOU are going to tighten the strap, you probably want a pull DOWN, because you can get you rear end shoved back as far into the seat back as it will go, keep your back straight and shoulders against the seat, use both hands and pull down. Be careful not to twist your body side to side, use both legs to keep yourself shoved against the back of the seat.
If you have an ASSISTANT outside the car and reaching in, it is very hard for him/her to be leaning through the window and getting any force through their arms and shoulders when they are cantilevered through the opening...with a pull UP strap instead of a pull DOWN strap they can plant their feet and legs for leverage and pull UP on the strap with a lot more power and precision.
When you have an accident, and if you need to understand that if you drive much at all this is not a question of WHETHER, but of WHEN, the belts are going to stretch....stretch a lot. So when you tighten down you want to be as snug as you possibly can be, so tight that there is no play or give to allow any separation of your body from the seat....not so tight that you are uncomfortable....but right up to or just short of that point of tightness where it would cause discomfort, distraction or fatigue that would diminish your driving performance.
A matter of preference, and practicality.
If YOU are going to tighten the strap, you probably want a pull DOWN, because you can get you rear end shoved back as far into the seat back as it will go, keep your back straight and shoulders against the seat, use both hands and pull down. Be careful not to twist your body side to side, use both legs to keep yourself shoved against the back of the seat.
If you have an ASSISTANT outside the car and reaching in, it is very hard for him/her to be leaning through the window and getting any force through their arms and shoulders when they are cantilevered through the opening...with a pull UP strap instead of a pull DOWN strap they can plant their feet and legs for leverage and pull UP on the strap with a lot more power and precision.
When you have an accident, and if you need to understand that if you drive much at all this is not a question of WHETHER, but of WHEN, the belts are going to stretch....stretch a lot. So when you tighten down you want to be as snug as you possibly can be, so tight that there is no play or give to allow any separation of your body from the seat....not so tight that you are uncomfortable....but right up to or just short of that point of tightness where it would cause discomfort, distraction or fatigue that would diminish your driving performance.
J
11-26-2006, 07:15 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by Eagle1
So when you tighten down you want to be as snug as you possibly can be, so tight that there is no play or give to allow any separation of your body from the seat....not so tight that you are uncomfortable....but right up to or just short of that point of tightness where it would cause discomfort, distraction or fatigue that would diminish your driving performance.
Spend the extra few bucks on the six-point belts and bolt them in. At least with those you can run the belts underneath the seatback and sit on them when using a stock seat. While still not ideal, it is much safer.
11-26-2006, 08:02 AM
#24
5 and 6 point harness systems are usafe without the crotch straps and you stand a good chance of failling tech if you show up at an event. I know when I've worked tech for NASA HPDE, SVTOA, and other sanctioning bodies we were specifically told to not allow these setups.
What happens in a front impact when using a 5 or 6 point harness system without the crotch strap is submarining. Since you cannot tighten the harness properly (keeping the lap belt down very low), in a frontal impact, your body slides out under the lap belt and your knees impact the dashboard. The Schroth system avoids that buy adding a small clamp in one shoulder harness that slips a bit on impact, causing your hips to twist slightly keeping you body from going under the lap belt.
If you're going to buy a 5 or 6 point harness system, properly install ALL the straps and use them.
What happens in a front impact when using a 5 or 6 point harness system without the crotch strap is submarining. Since you cannot tighten the harness properly (keeping the lap belt down very low), in a frontal impact, your body slides out under the lap belt and your knees impact the dashboard. The Schroth system avoids that buy adding a small clamp in one shoulder harness that slips a bit on impact, causing your hips to twist slightly keeping you body from going under the lap belt.
If you're going to buy a 5 or 6 point harness system, properly install ALL the straps and use them.
11-26-2006, 02:55 PM
#26
Schroth 4pt Profi II ASM
Less than a year ago, I went through this research/discussion. It is a personal topic, and it is highly dependent on whether you use stock seats vs racing seats, have a roll bar/cage, and or use a head and neck restraint system, such as a Hans. I think the use of H&N system is an important factor in what you choose as a belt system.
From what I gather, the OP is in the same boat at me; compromising safety in every way by using a daily driver for the track. Some of us don't have the finances to have a dedicated track car, so we compromise.
I have the same set up as daveh because frankly, I think it's a good and economical compromise. Stock seats, OE airbags, 4 pt Schroth with ASM, roll bar. Some folks say NO WAY to 4 pt, but the Schroth has a fuse that essentially makes it a 3pt system when engaged. Why did I choose this system over a 5 or 6 pt? Because I wasn't going to invest in a H&N restraint system (yet). I don't want to use my neck as a fuse.
Also, I still use my OE 3pt for the street because it is more convenient, more comfortable, and legal.
No roll cage for me because I still want those airbags functional, plus I don't plan on using a helmet on the street to keep my head from cracking open if it collides with the cage. So, I went with a roll bar for the middle-of-the-road rollover protection.
This IS NOT what I'd do for a dedicated track car. I'd be using race seats, full roll cage, H&N system, disable air bags, and 6pt belts.
From what I gather, the OP is in the same boat at me; compromising safety in every way by using a daily driver for the track. Some of us don't have the finances to have a dedicated track car, so we compromise.
I have the same set up as daveh because frankly, I think it's a good and economical compromise. Stock seats, OE airbags, 4 pt Schroth with ASM, roll bar. Some folks say NO WAY to 4 pt, but the Schroth has a fuse that essentially makes it a 3pt system when engaged. Why did I choose this system over a 5 or 6 pt? Because I wasn't going to invest in a H&N restraint system (yet). I don't want to use my neck as a fuse.
Also, I still use my OE 3pt for the street because it is more convenient, more comfortable, and legal.
No roll cage for me because I still want those airbags functional, plus I don't plan on using a helmet on the street to keep my head from cracking open if it collides with the cage. So, I went with a roll bar for the middle-of-the-road rollover protection.
This IS NOT what I'd do for a dedicated track car. I'd be using race seats, full roll cage, H&N system, disable air bags, and 6pt belts.
Last edited by dnguyent; 11-26-2006 at 02:58 PM.
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