Prelim testing completed for race splitter/airdam system
12-04-2006, 08:11 PM
#21
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sorry to hijack the thread, but i'm curious:
what is it about this design that offers so much downforce? to my untrained eye, it looks similar to what is on my ings n-spec bumper, if not a bit smaller even... is there something unique here or will my bumper have a similar effect?
what is it about this design that offers so much downforce? to my untrained eye, it looks similar to what is on my ings n-spec bumper, if not a bit smaller even... is there something unique here or will my bumper have a similar effect?
12-04-2006, 08:22 PM
#22
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Most splitters that have a 3" leading edge will exhibit these downforces when you are over 100mph. My information comes from a windtunnel tested SAE splitter with a 3" leading edge. It doesn't take much edge. It is really dependent on your speed. Thats all. The important issue is that your splitter can handle these loads without bending or coming apart. This splitter is also a front diffuser
under the front bumper. Much of the challenge in making these parts is in the material and the process of combining the laminates to the honeycomb core (in our case).
under the front bumper. Much of the challenge in making these parts is in the material and the process of combining the laminates to the honeycomb core (in our case).
Originally Posted by stan
sorry to hijack the thread, but i'm curious:
what is it about this design that offers so much downforce? to my untrained eye, it looks similar to what is on my ings n-spec bumper, if not a bit smaller even... is there something unique here or will my bumper have a similar effect?
what is it about this design that offers so much downforce? to my untrained eye, it looks similar to what is on my ings n-spec bumper, if not a bit smaller even... is there something unique here or will my bumper have a similar effect?
12-05-2006, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by kognition
This isn't a mass market part, but a full racing part. These are made the way aircraft parts are made. I'm afraid you wont be seeing discounted prices on these parts. And we are allready backordered as it is. But you are getting a great value for what it is and does. At over 100mph, you will see about 450lbs of downforce. So we will be stepping up production a bit early. And we need to restock our drivers after this weekends racing. The below pic shows damage after the entire splitter and air dam was ripped off and completely driven over this weekend. He (Steve Mott) ran it for the remainder of the weekend. It was pretty hardcore to see it ripped off and driven over! RobiSpec was so impressed, that we will be producing parts for them for their Evo customers next month.
02-04-2007, 04:50 PM
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An update on this aero part for the Z. We finally sourced a rubber edge trim that
will effectively protect the edge better from gravel. And that is Kevlar under the splitter.
will effectively protect the edge better from gravel. And that is Kevlar under the splitter.
Last edited by kognition; 02-06-2007 at 04:14 PM.
02-05-2007, 07:31 AM
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Not sure if you are in S.D. now John, but i have two Z's running them at next weekends Redline Time Attack at Cal Spdwy. http://www.redlinetimeattack.com
Originally Posted by John
I'm interested - would like to see it in person first though...
.
02-05-2007, 06:13 PM
#30
Originally Posted by kognition
Most splitters that have a 3" leading edge will exhibit these downforces when you are over 100mph. My information comes from a windtunnel tested SAE splitter with a 3" leading edge. It doesn't take much edge. It is really dependent on your speed. Thats all. The important issue is that your splitter can handle these loads without bending or coming apart. This splitter is also a front diffuser
under the front bumper. Much of the challenge in making these parts is in the material and the process of combining the laminates to the honeycomb core (in our case).
under the front bumper. Much of the challenge in making these parts is in the material and the process of combining the laminates to the honeycomb core (in our case).
02-05-2007, 08:39 PM
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Sorry, but we don't "wild guess" or we wouldn't be in this business. You can take
a popscicle stick and get 450lb's of downforce if you go fast enough, of course it will fail due to lack of strength. Our point being, the air splitters we manufacture are capable of handling in excess of 450lb's of down force. We know this because we fail test the entire surface of the part that is exposed to air load. Your point being?
a popscicle stick and get 450lb's of downforce if you go fast enough, of course it will fail due to lack of strength. Our point being, the air splitters we manufacture are capable of handling in excess of 450lb's of down force. We know this because we fail test the entire surface of the part that is exposed to air load. Your point being?
Originally Posted by Kolia
Meaning the 450lb of down force claimed is a basically a wild guess?
02-06-2007, 03:00 AM
#32
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kognition, is that a picture of the new prototype 'lightweight' hatch in post #24? 
Interested in hearing about a CF version (with OEM rear window for the street if possible).
Interested in hearing about a CF version (with OEM rear window for the street if possible).
02-06-2007, 06:21 AM
#34
I didn’t mean to offend you or anybody.
From what I can see on the picture, your splitter is certainly functional and well built. Tests on the race track certainly back up it's effectiveness. I’m just curious to know how you went about finding these numbers. Did you measured the ride height at speed, or installed load cells on the mounting points?
A reference to some similar splitter used on a different setup is hardly a reliable source. The defensive stance you’re suddenly adopting suggest no measurement were made. If you had, I would have had my answer straight up…
Now you’re saying it can withstand 450lb of load before failure. Unless it has failed during test, that doesn’t mean it will generate that amount of down force.
I might not an aerodynamicist; I’m not even an engineer. But I have worked as a designer to some trick wind tunnel facilities and I’ve seen a couple of aero packages.
From what I can see on the picture, your splitter is certainly functional and well built. Tests on the race track certainly back up it's effectiveness. I’m just curious to know how you went about finding these numbers. Did you measured the ride height at speed, or installed load cells on the mounting points?
A reference to some similar splitter used on a different setup is hardly a reliable source. The defensive stance you’re suddenly adopting suggest no measurement were made. If you had, I would have had my answer straight up…
Originally Posted by kognition
Sorry, but we don't "wild guess" or we wouldn't be in this business. You can take
a popscicle stick and get 450lb's of downforce if you go fast enough, of course it will fail due to lack of strength. Our point being, the air splitters we manufacture are capable of handling in excess of 450lb's of down force. We know this because we fail test the entire surface of the part that is exposed to air load. Your point being?
a popscicle stick and get 450lb's of downforce if you go fast enough, of course it will fail due to lack of strength. Our point being, the air splitters we manufacture are capable of handling in excess of 450lb's of down force. We know this because we fail test the entire surface of the part that is exposed to air load. Your point being?
I might not an aerodynamicist; I’m not even an engineer. But I have worked as a designer to some trick wind tunnel facilities and I’ve seen a couple of aero packages.
02-06-2007, 07:47 AM
#35
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No that is the new invisible hatch.
Yes the kit is now in production and available.
Yes the kit is now in production and available.
Originally Posted by FritzMan
kognition, is that a picture of the new prototype 'lightweight' hatch in post #24?
Interested in hearing about a CF version (with OEM rear window for the street if possible).
Interested in hearing about a CF version (with OEM rear window for the street if possible).
02-06-2007, 08:01 AM
#36
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No offense taken, i had a stressful day yeserday and i did not intent to sound
like i was offended.
You are right, we do not use load cells for testing.
The SAE splitter that was tested is in my possession, not just numbers picked from the web. And the customer who paid for the testing is also my customer
RobiSpec (Robert Fuller). We produce splitters for their Evo's. Very close in surface area to our Z splitters.
We mount the test part securely, and we apply an even downforce on the exposed edge until the part fails. And as an fyi, it extends behind the front bumper 16 inches back. It is also funtioning as a diffuser. I wish i had a wind tunnel.
like i was offended.
You are right, we do not use load cells for testing.
The SAE splitter that was tested is in my possession, not just numbers picked from the web. And the customer who paid for the testing is also my customer
RobiSpec (Robert Fuller). We produce splitters for their Evo's. Very close in surface area to our Z splitters.
We mount the test part securely, and we apply an even downforce on the exposed edge until the part fails. And as an fyi, it extends behind the front bumper 16 inches back. It is also funtioning as a diffuser. I wish i had a wind tunnel.
Originally Posted by Kolia
I didn’t mean to offend you or anybody.
From what I can see on the picture, your splitter is certainly functional and well built. Tests on the race track certainly back up it's effectiveness. I’m just curious to know how you went about finding these numbers. Did you measured the ride height at speed, or installed load cells on the mounting points?
A reference to some similar splitter used on a different setup is hardly a reliable source. The defensive stance you’re suddenly adopting suggest no measurement were made. If you had, I would have had my answer straight up…
Now you’re saying it can withstand 450lb of load before failure. Unless it has failed during test, that doesn’t mean it will generate that amount of down force.
I might not an aerodynamicist; I’m not even an engineer. But I have worked as a designer to some trick wind tunnel facilities and I’ve seen a couple of aero packages.
From what I can see on the picture, your splitter is certainly functional and well built. Tests on the race track certainly back up it's effectiveness. I’m just curious to know how you went about finding these numbers. Did you measured the ride height at speed, or installed load cells on the mounting points?
A reference to some similar splitter used on a different setup is hardly a reliable source. The defensive stance you’re suddenly adopting suggest no measurement were made. If you had, I would have had my answer straight up…
Now you’re saying it can withstand 450lb of load before failure. Unless it has failed during test, that doesn’t mean it will generate that amount of down force.
I might not an aerodynamicist; I’m not even an engineer. But I have worked as a designer to some trick wind tunnel facilities and I’ve seen a couple of aero packages.
02-06-2007, 08:25 AM
#37
Thanks for the clarifications. And I’m sorry if my comments came across in a negative way.
That piece looks great. Is it mounted to the bumper beam of just the skin?
A set of laser range finders would be a good investment for fine tuning various designs. That’s what we used. Correlating ride height with aero loading. Having two give you the chance to verify your front to rear balance too. I don’t know how much of an investment that would be…
That piece looks great. Is it mounted to the bumper beam of just the skin?
A set of laser range finders would be a good investment for fine tuning various designs. That’s what we used. Correlating ride height with aero loading. Having two give you the chance to verify your front to rear balance too. I don’t know how much of an investment that would be…
02-06-2007, 09:02 AM
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Thank's Kolia 
Well i hope that as we progress into making the more sensitive parts that affect the cars handling, we can invest into equipment like that.
Yes this one pictured is mounted to the bumper skin. The rear of the splitter is bolted to the skid plate underneath. We will develop a bracket mounting setup to attach to stock points under the chassis in the next month. The next goal for us is an undertray kit, and to develop that into a fuctional part.
Well i hope that as we progress into making the more sensitive parts that affect the cars handling, we can invest into equipment like that.
Yes this one pictured is mounted to the bumper skin. The rear of the splitter is bolted to the skid plate underneath. We will develop a bracket mounting setup to attach to stock points under the chassis in the next month. The next goal for us is an undertray kit, and to develop that into a fuctional part.
Originally Posted by Kolia
Thanks for the clarifications. And I’m sorry if my comments came across in a negative way.
That piece looks great. Is it mounted to the bumper beam of just the skin?
A set of laser range finders would be a good investment for fine tuning various designs. That’s what we used. Correlating ride height with aero loading. Having two give you the chance to verify your front to rear balance too. I don’t know how much of an investment that would be…
That piece looks great. Is it mounted to the bumper beam of just the skin?
A set of laser range finders would be a good investment for fine tuning various designs. That’s what we used. Correlating ride height with aero loading. Having two give you the chance to verify your front to rear balance too. I don’t know how much of an investment that would be…
