After four years of running my Track Z bone stock, I think I've tightened the nut behind the wheel about as far as he's going to go. I run 15-20 HPDE track days a year. No racing, no autocross.

So I've decided my first mod will be sway bars. I'd been thinking about it for a while and had planned to get the 350evo set. But it turns out they aren't available anymore.

So what do you all think of the remaining choices? After searching here and out on the Web, I'm leaning toward the Hotchkiss bars, which seem to have a good reputation and are reasonably priced. What do you recommend and why?

I'd be especially interested in hearing comparisons from folks who have used more than one type, in terms of installation, adjustability, performance, etc.

Also, what do you think about replacing the sway bars while leaving the stock shocks and springs? What replacements would you recommend? Again, comparisons of different types from your own experience would be most useful.

I understand replacing the sway bars is a fairly easy job, so I'll do that myself. But I've never done shocks or springs. Easy enough for a first-timer to do on his own? Do I need special tools?

Thanks.

 

i can't comment on the sways or suspension question (as mine is still stock), but i'd highly recommend you get adjustable sway bar end links. when sitting flat on the ground, the sways should have no preload. the factory end links do not accomplish this, and i'd imagine the problem to be exacerbated with aftermarket parts as their attachment points will be in a slightly different location.

sways are really just a fine tuning measure - what handling trait of the car do you want to change?

ahm

 

I have the Stillen sways and they're real nice...I have the Tein shocks/springs which are nice too since they're adjustable.

 

cusco are nice. they're solid and are just about the stiffest in the front as they come as well as the rear. I have them myself.

 

Leave the swaybars.

Dampers is what the Z needs for the track. Plus, if you plan to run R-compounds (which you should), dampers are an absolute must.

Expect the swap to take 15 minutes each sides in the rear, and circa 30-45 minutes each in the front. A spring compressor is useful but not mandatory. An impact driver will also help.

Koni sports from Tirerack are hard to beat (I have them). The Tokico are cheaper but hard to adjust.

 

Hmmm. I've heard from several people at the track that adjustable sways made the single greatest improvement to the handling of the things that they had installed. More so, for instance, than adjustable A-arms.

The main thing I hope to accomplish is to reduce body roll and understeer.

Kolia: what settings do you use on track for the Konis? Do you reset them for street driving?

 

You need to look at your suspension as a total package. That is, springs, shocks, and sway bars. The T-2 spring package thru Nissan Competion are a good place to start. They lower the car to a comfortable hight. You definitely need adjustable front and rear sway bars and we went with Nissan because that is what is specified in the SCCA T-2 rule book. For shocks I would suggest investing in the Koni's developed and licenced by TC Kline. They are double adjustable and not that hard to install. We have had good luck with TC stuff including wheel spacers for the front. His company is located in Hilliard, Ohio and can be reached at 614-771-7744. TC has experience with the 350Z and will offer set-up help if asked. Have fun with your track days but should you decide to come race keep in mind that adjustments you make on the car should be within the SCCA T-2 rules.

 

I'm a "+2" front and rear and leave them there all the time...

I'm lazy and, more importantly, I'm still on a pretty steep learning curve so fine tuning a suspension isn't realistic yet. I just keep lowering my time eahc track day.

I'm sure a stiffer rear bar would help with the front outside weight transfer. My car still understeers plenty if I turn-in like a noob.

The dampers makes the car much more responsive, flatter too as it doesn't bounce as much. It is a bigger investment money wise and a more complicated instalation. But it's worth it.

If you stick to street tires, the sway bars will be great. Mount r-compounds though, and the OEM dampers will send you all over the track because of the bump steer.

So, what tires will you run next year?

 

I live 15 minutes away from TC's shop and I've spoken to him a couple of times. Very good people and good gear.

 

+1

Unless you don't plan on upgrading the shocks and springs, I'd leave the sways till the end. They are merely one of the fine-tuning aids used for final setup.

If you're fighting push, what have you done to fix it? Are you running a staggered tire setup? Have you messed with pressures at all?

ahm

 

I installed Progress Tech sway bars and they've made a difference in handling. They are solid bars, not hollow, which makes them stiffer. I also installed the Tein S springs which lowered my Z about 1/2". I still have the stock shocks. Another inexpensive mod that I installed are spacers on all four corners. Between these three mods, my Z's handling capability increased drastically and I felt a huge difference in the track -- it is tight.

 

Sounds like you are ready to start changing things on the Z. As far as suspension goes - I like to call it "Black Majic" since there is no correct answer. The best advise I have for you is first sit down and write out your goals you are looking for, then look at your budget, then revise the goals to match your budget. Then do some reading on what changes in suspension will do to the handling of the car (you probably already know this, but I re-read up on it all the time).
I would say that you are better off looking for a good adjustable coilover first (if you have already done tires) then look for sway bars that match (and adjustment is also important here) and get some adjustable end-links. If you have some money left - get some adjustable A-Arms. Now that you have total adjustment and you know how to adjustment them and what affect that will have - it is a blast to test and tune!
And as a side note - whenever I buy modifications - I always look for known manufactures, can I adjust it, and will it be lighter than stock.

 

Just like what someone has said, if you are looking at street tires, OEM dampers are fine..but once you are on R-compounds; better dampener is a must (yet, you can start with sth more economical like Tokico and Koni shocks instead of a full set of Coilovers).

However, I do think that Adjustable sways is the first step (apart from tires' type and size) to allow you to adjust your car's steering dynamics: i.e. under/oversteer.

 

Remember, not all Z's have the same oem shocks. 03/04 car's have very high level's of compression dampning, something that Koni specifically reduced as part of their R&D path. 03/04 shocks are also lacking in rebound control levels. Not everyone is best served by advising them to stick with oem dampners.

 

I run the 350 EVO's and didn't realize they are no longer available, but if your plan is to do sways first and try it, but want something realatively stiff and adjustable similar to the 350 EVO sways, you may want to try the Largus sway bars. They have a great reputation in Japan in racing circles and specialize in making sways only for all types of cars. They also offer the largest stiffest bars out there for our cars.

http://www.largus.co.jp/

US Importers:

http://www.kure-international.com/largus.htm

 

I'm checking out the Largus website and came across the links below. Are these for the 350Z? Anyone installed them? Are they also specifically only for their Largus sway bars?

 

I agree with everything he said. The T2 package is proven to work as a total package and not too expensive. The T2 sways are the same as the EVO's (assuming you can get them from perf nissan for Nissan motorsports). You can get away without camber arms with this setup as well.
If you want something more streetable, go with the setup that I have; the truechoice phase 4 coilovers. The shock is similar to TC Kline DA Koni with different valving. They cost a little more but allow you to cornerweight the car and play with spring rates.

 

I can't find any Z33 bar specs on either link above or anything to suggests that they offer a Z33 fitment. From what I can find they use hollow wall construction, nothing wrong with that, but in a discussion about being the stiffest it does matter.

Cusco's front bar is 35mm solid (same as the CT-1)
Hotchkis 35mm hollow 6mm wall thickness

At equal lever arm distances, Cusco bar is 23% stiffer due to it's solid construction. What we don't know is if the new Hotchkis with new 4th hole math's out to overcome it's torsional disadvantage vs the Cusco with a shorter lever arm distance.

This might make the above a mute issue, however and I just learned about it.
H&R's front bar is 36mm solid and adjustable (ETA Jan 07)

 

Those don't look like 350Z end-links - here is what our end-links look like with an adjustable end-link next to them:

 

Somebody did a torsion test on all of the sway bars and the Cusco came out the stiffest. Don't know what that means to you, but good to know nonetheless.

Oh, and 350EVO, which is what I am running came out to be one of the weakest.