How do you setup your car for BS?
03-28-2007, 06:58 PM
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How do you setup your car for BS?
I like my car and I have been able to stay relatively competitive due to some overdriving and luck. Still, I have problem winning consistently as I have to rely on other people to have bad days in order to stay up front. Some of the problem with my Z is that it is 100% stock. I am completely screwed when it comes to suspension adjustment and tire size. Since we don't have any camber adjustment, how do you guys get more camber into a stock car without making it into a SP car? Also the plow is very annoying. I absolutely hate hte lazy turn in.
I also pay for it on the track with my tiny brakes and my 500 miles tires
I also pay for it on the track with my tiny brakes and my 500 miles tires
03-28-2007, 07:15 PM
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lots of BS ppl run:
-adjustable Koni shocks
-large front sway bar
-at least 275 wide tires on all 4 corners
...those mods should help greatly with cornering. After that, you can get a drop in filter element and run a straight pipe for cat-back exhaust.
not much else you can do and still stay in BS, but that's why it's called "stock".
-Peter
-adjustable Koni shocks
-large front sway bar
-at least 275 wide tires on all 4 corners
...those mods should help greatly with cornering. After that, you can get a drop in filter element and run a straight pipe for cat-back exhaust.
not much else you can do and still stay in BS, but that's why it's called "stock".
-Peter
03-28-2007, 07:38 PM
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Well what year and model is your car?
You can get more camber out of the front by getting all the play out of the upper wishbone connector bolts. Not a lot, but around a degree of negative.
If you have a track edition you can run 285s (hoosier A6) all the way around with very acceptable results. (as my car is an 03 track we have 18x8s up front with 18x8and1/2 in the rear and there is no rubbing with a spacer in the front)
Then it is as first350 says.
Sways, shocks, cat back exhaust, and a drop in filter.
We shall see how this year turns out...
You can get more camber out of the front by getting all the play out of the upper wishbone connector bolts. Not a lot, but around a degree of negative.
If you have a track edition you can run 285s (hoosier A6) all the way around with very acceptable results. (as my car is an 03 track we have 18x8s up front with 18x8and1/2 in the rear and there is no rubbing with a spacer in the front)
Then it is as first350 says.
Sways, shocks, cat back exhaust, and a drop in filter.
We shall see how this year turns out...
03-28-2007, 08:52 PM
#5
Carter Thompson, who placed 6ths at nationals in 2003 in his '03 Enthusiast (behind all the S2Ks), ran Hoosiers (275s on 17" sized wheels (7.5" front, 8" rear)). And a custom 1.25" solid front sway bar with custom valved DA Koni's.(I'm sure he had other things, but I can't quote what I don't know).
He later purchased a 05 track model
Same thread
He later purchased a 05 track model
Originally Posted by tomsn16
Here's the setup for the 2nd place BS car(by o.100 sec) at the SCCA Solo Nationals this year.You decide.
2005 Track Model
285/30/18 Kumho 710 on OEM Ray's
CT-1 front swaybar,35mm solid
Koni DA's
1/4" front spacers
Muffler delete pipe
2005 Track Model
285/30/18 Kumho 710 on OEM Ray's
CT-1 front swaybar,35mm solid
Koni DA's
1/4" front spacers
Muffler delete pipe
Originally Posted by tomsn16
The 18 month development of our '05 Track included testing (in order) 245/35/18 Kumho 710, 275/35/18 Hoosier A5 and A6 and 285/30/18 710's.The entire setup suddenly "liteup" with the addition of the 285 710's (the result I guess of a slightly larger patch and the lower sidewall).
Keep in mind, all our development was for autox only but the 285 provided a leap forward for the single purpose.Side benefit is fantastic wear(100+ runs) which we never encountered before with the no front camber Z.
Bottom line re your question....for our car nothing else worked nearly as good as the 285 710.
Keep in mind, all our development was for autox only but the 285 provided a leap forward for the single purpose.Side benefit is fantastic wear(100+ runs) which we never encountered before with the no front camber Z.
Bottom line re your question....for our car nothing else worked nearly as good as the 285 710.
03-28-2007, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by chishifu
i always though popcharger was allowed because it's basically just a filter replacement and the tube stays stock?
The engine air filter element may be removed or replaced. A
replacement element which is taller than standard may not be
used to hold the air cleaner cover open. No other components of
the air induction system may be removed, replaced or modified.
replacement element which is taller than standard may not be
used to hold the air cleaner cover open. No other components of
the air induction system may be removed, replaced or modified.
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03-28-2007, 09:26 PM
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It's an 04 enth. Can I play with the camber? More info please, I think this is going to benefit me the most as far as the car goes. I have the 17" rims, so I dont feel comfortable with the 285s. I use 245 normally. Also my car is used for time trials too, so I cant go too extreme to it. I do want to know how to put in more camber than having the pathetic .8 degree. Any picture of the bolt?
Originally Posted by Kirkster
Well what year and model is your car?
You can get more camber out of the front by getting all the play out of the upper wishbone connector bolts. Not a lot, but around a degree of negative.
If you have a track edition you can run 285s (hoosier A6) all the way around with very acceptable results. (as my car is an 03 track we have 18x8s up front with 18x8and1/2 in the rear and there is no rubbing with a spacer in the front)
Then it is as first350 says.
Sways, shocks, cat back exhaust, and a drop in filter.
We shall see how this year turns out...
You can get more camber out of the front by getting all the play out of the upper wishbone connector bolts. Not a lot, but around a degree of negative.
If you have a track edition you can run 285s (hoosier A6) all the way around with very acceptable results. (as my car is an 03 track we have 18x8s up front with 18x8and1/2 in the rear and there is no rubbing with a spacer in the front)
Then it is as first350 says.
Sways, shocks, cat back exhaust, and a drop in filter.
We shall see how this year turns out...
03-29-2007, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Gsedan35
Carter Thompson, who placed 6ths at nationals in 2003 in his '03 Enthusiast (behind all the S2Ks), ran Hoosiers (275s on 17" sized wheels (7.5" front, 8" rear)). And a custom 1.25" solid front sway bar with custom valved DA Koni's.(I'm sure he had other things, but I can't quote what I don't know).
He later purchased a 05 track model
Same thread
He later purchased a 05 track model
Same thread
Then he saw the light and now owns an RX8. 
03-29-2007, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by tmak26b
I like my car and I have been able to stay relatively competitive due to some overdriving and luck. Still, I have problem winning consistently as I have to rely on other people to have bad days in order to stay up front. Some of the problem with my Z is that it is 100% stock. I am completely screwed when it comes to suspension adjustment and tire size. Since we don't have any camber adjustment, how do you guys get more camber into a stock car without making it into a SP car? Also the plow is very annoying. I absolutely hate hte lazy turn in.
I also pay for it on the track with my tiny brakes and my 500 miles tires
I also pay for it on the track with my tiny brakes and my 500 miles tires
steps to making your car competitive for BS.
1. buy an rx8.
haha.
245s will allow you to be topdog in your region, but ultimately, 285s are where it's at if you ever plan to step it up into national competition.
you can do 275s all around on the 17" wheel combo. perfectly fine for TT use also.
03-29-2007, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jun14scr
steps to making your car competitive for BS.
1. buy an rx8.
haha.
245s will allow you to be topdog in your region, but ultimately, 285s are where it's at if you ever plan to step it up into national competition.
you can do 275s all around on the 17" wheel combo. perfectly fine for TT use also.
1. buy an rx8.
haha.
245s will allow you to be topdog in your region, but ultimately, 285s are where it's at if you ever plan to step it up into national competition.
you can do 275s all around on the 17" wheel combo. perfectly fine for TT use also.
I have no problem being competitive in my region, but I want to see what i can do in case the course gets tight. THe plow on the Z really suck, especially on street tires. I do a lot better on race tires, especailly when the track opens up.
03-29-2007, 05:12 PM
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My opinions for what it's worth:
Spend every weekend you can running an event. Jason talks about the RX-8 but he'd probably be as good in a Z with his talent. The push happens when you dive into the corner too fast and don't wait to accelerate until you unwind the wheel. Patience pays.
Hoosiers are a waste of money on a Z. They cord in 20 or so runs on the outside edge and you have to flip them. I tried the 05 and 06s and they lasted about 50 to 55 runs. Get Kumhos. My last set are at about 120 runs and I plan to run a regional this weekend with them. No cord but the grooves are gone. Pick a size you can get on the wheel. Not everyone knows a magician that can get the 285s on a 8" wheel so you might have to get the 245s.
I ran Konis on my 03 since they made the street ride acceptable. How much they helped at autocross, I don't know. I liked them at full soft in the front and 1/2 in the rear and my son liked them at full in the front. My 07 doesn't seem to need them but I've only run a T&T and another event with it on race rubber. Coned the hell out of the last course. The turn-in is much quicker than the 03 and I need practice relearning where the inside front wheel is. Must be the bump in the hood.
It will be a couple of weeks before I run an event with Carter's RX-8. He's a better driver so if I can get closer than last year, the 07 car is much better.
Spend every weekend you can running an event. Jason talks about the RX-8 but he'd probably be as good in a Z with his talent. The push happens when you dive into the corner too fast and don't wait to accelerate until you unwind the wheel. Patience pays.
Hoosiers are a waste of money on a Z. They cord in 20 or so runs on the outside edge and you have to flip them. I tried the 05 and 06s and they lasted about 50 to 55 runs. Get Kumhos. My last set are at about 120 runs and I plan to run a regional this weekend with them. No cord but the grooves are gone. Pick a size you can get on the wheel. Not everyone knows a magician that can get the 285s on a 8" wheel so you might have to get the 245s.
I ran Konis on my 03 since they made the street ride acceptable. How much they helped at autocross, I don't know. I liked them at full soft in the front and 1/2 in the rear and my son liked them at full in the front. My 07 doesn't seem to need them but I've only run a T&T and another event with it on race rubber. Coned the hell out of the last course. The turn-in is much quicker than the 03 and I need practice relearning where the inside front wheel is. Must be the bump in the hood.
It will be a couple of weeks before I run an event with Carter's RX-8. He's a better driver so if I can get closer than last year, the 07 car is much better.
03-29-2007, 06:45 PM
#14
RX-8s main reason for dominating because the top drivers are attracted by top $$$ and do what they need to do -- within the rules -- to win.
That being said, the biggest advantage that the RX-8 has is that it accelerates and handles like a big, fat Miata. That's both a good thing -- and bad.
The Z has Balance. Balance with a capital "B." The easiest way to upset that balance is to be impatient. Enter a corner too quickly, squeeze on the gas too soon, and the Z will push like a pig -- but then so would any car. Jump onto the brakes, and you will overload the front tires.
The Z is almost "spooky quick" through slaloms, but you have to really trust the car. The same is true in corners. The back end will be light -- that's why you need the weight in the back -- but the car is extremely controllable, even with the back end "out there."
That being said, the biggest advantage that the RX-8 has is that it accelerates and handles like a big, fat Miata. That's both a good thing -- and bad.
The Z has Balance. Balance with a capital "B." The easiest way to upset that balance is to be impatient. Enter a corner too quickly, squeeze on the gas too soon, and the Z will push like a pig -- but then so would any car. Jump onto the brakes, and you will overload the front tires.
The Z is almost "spooky quick" through slaloms, but you have to really trust the car. The same is true in corners. The back end will be light -- that's why you need the weight in the back -- but the car is extremely controllable, even with the back end "out there."
03-29-2007, 07:43 PM
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What balance? The car lacks balance, that's why it is so tough to negotiate the car through quick transitions without getting sideways. Being owner of both cars, I can say the RX-8 can do circles around the Z in the slow stuff because the car is much lighter on its feet and it has much quicker steering. The Z has the stability for faster turns, but the word balance does not apply to the Z. Tossable is more like it.
The weakest point on the Z is the slolam, the car just doesn't like it. The steering is too heavy and too much weight. As far as the turn in, I am sure it will change a lot with more camber.
The weakest point on the Z is the slolam, the car just doesn't like it. The steering is too heavy and too much weight. As far as the turn in, I am sure it will change a lot with more camber.
Originally Posted by PDX_Racer
RX-8s main reason for dominating because the top drivers are attracted by top $$$ and do what they need to do -- within the rules -- to win.
That being said, the biggest advantage that the RX-8 has is that it accelerates and handles like a big, fat Miata. That's both a good thing -- and bad.
The Z has Balance. Balance with a capital "B." The easiest way to upset that balance is to be impatient. Enter a corner too quickly, squeeze on the gas too soon, and the Z will push like a pig -- but then so would any car. Jump onto the brakes, and you will overload the front tires.
The Z is almost "spooky quick" through slaloms, but you have to really trust the car. The same is true in corners. The back end will be light -- that's why you need the weight in the back -- but the car is extremely controllable, even with the back end "out there."
That being said, the biggest advantage that the RX-8 has is that it accelerates and handles like a big, fat Miata. That's both a good thing -- and bad.
The Z has Balance. Balance with a capital "B." The easiest way to upset that balance is to be impatient. Enter a corner too quickly, squeeze on the gas too soon, and the Z will push like a pig -- but then so would any car. Jump onto the brakes, and you will overload the front tires.
The Z is almost "spooky quick" through slaloms, but you have to really trust the car. The same is true in corners. The back end will be light -- that's why you need the weight in the back -- but the car is extremely controllable, even with the back end "out there."
03-29-2007, 10:21 PM
#16
Originally Posted by tmak26b
What balance? The car lacks balance, that's why it is so tough to negotiate the car through quick transitions without getting sideways. Being owner of both cars, I can say the RX-8 can do circles around the Z in the slow stuff because the car is much lighter on its feet and it has much quicker steering. The Z has the stability for faster turns, but the word balance does not apply to the Z. Tossable is more like it.
The weakest point on the Z is the slolam, the car just doesn't like it. The steering is too heavy and too much weight. As far as the turn in, I am sure it will change a lot with more camber.
The weakest point on the Z is the slolam, the car just doesn't like it. The steering is too heavy and too much weight. As far as the turn in, I am sure it will change a lot with more camber.
Then again, I'm not using the stock tire sizes -- 225s on the front are there simply to provide (severe) understeer. 245s on the front gets rid of quite a bit of understeer, even if you have even wider tires on the rear.
I've had national champions drive my car and they're all very surprised at how well balanced the car is, but the stock tires suck -- in more ways than one.
03-30-2007, 01:47 AM
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sorry to kinda hijack, but are our stock tyres at least better than the kumho ectsa asx all seasons? the setup would be 225/245 for the potenzas and 235 all around for the kumhos. Just curious
03-30-2007, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by tmak26b
I can say the RX-8 can do circles around the Z in the slow stuff because the car is much lighter on its feet and it has much quicker steering.
Shoot, autocrossing is all about fun and if the Z isn't fun for you then don't run it. Take it to a track day and have a blast.
03-30-2007, 07:40 AM
#19
The Z has Balance. Balance with a capital "B." The easiest way to upset that balance is to be impatient. Enter a corner too quickly, squeeze on the gas too soon, and the Z will push like a pig -- but then so would any car. Jump onto the brakes, and you will overload the front tires.
Autocorss is a unique world when it comes to car setup. Getting any car to work well in that world sometimes requires an "un-natural" suspension setup, something that might get you killed on a race track. The 350Z needs a little bit of that to make it work well in a sea of cones.
03-30-2007, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by PDX_Racer
Mine is just the opposite -- it LOVES slaloms and rarely gets sideways without me doing something incredibly stupid. It's also incredibly well-balanced, and can go from understeer to oversteer (and back) without too much trouble.
Then again, I'm not using the stock tire sizes -- 225s on the front are there simply to provide (severe) understeer. 245s on the front gets rid of quite a bit of understeer, even if you have even wider tires on the rear.
I've had national champions drive my car and they're all very surprised at how well balanced the car is, but the stock tires suck -- in more ways than one.
Then again, I'm not using the stock tire sizes -- 225s on the front are there simply to provide (severe) understeer. 245s on the front gets rid of quite a bit of understeer, even if you have even wider tires on the rear.
I've had national champions drive my car and they're all very surprised at how well balanced the car is, but the stock tires suck -- in more ways than one.